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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Thinking about deja vu voting ...
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 12/18/2004 09:06:29 PM · #1
I was pondering on this just now ... it stikes me that, if someone prooduces an image that is very nearly indistinguishable from a previous ribbon winner, it ought, really, to be automatically scored a ten, no? As 'imitation' is one of the options, and there is a real place you can go and compare the imitated shot, there ought to be very little argument about that.

However ... and isn't there just always a however ... say someone takes an idea of a previous ribbon winner, and adapts it and alters it to make a 'new' photograph, in a challenging and interesting and appealing manner - then what the hell does one score that? To my mind, that ought to score higher, as being a thoughtful and progressive thing to do (and I'm presuming technical competence here, of course).

I'm pretty certain I'll just take my usual approach of rating shots by how much they appeal, and then trying to select a 'best' from those.

But I'm curious to know what others are thinking.

Ed
 12/18/2004 11:55:55 PM · #2
I for one, changed the subtly layout but you will not see a change... maybe if you look closely, you will see it. However, the content and context is in tact.. will you really crucify me? hope not.
 12/19/2004 12:25:59 AM · #3
Originally posted by e301:

But I'm curious to know what others are thinking.

Ed


:)

12/19/2004 12:31:54 AM · #4
I'm thinking of putting the referenced image # in the title of mine... just to make it easy to find. Hopefully i'm not the only one or i'll be given away!
 12/19/2004 12:33:51 AM · #5
I won't vote based on how well of a 'copy' I see for sure. If I didn't like the photo that was copied, chances are I won't like the new version unless it has been improved in some way.

I also don't expect that 'variations' will do well since the theme of the challenge is to copy or parody.
12/19/2004 12:52:23 AM · #6
As long as I can see how the image was derived from the original, I would say it meets the challenge quite well. After that, the image stands on its own.

David
 12/19/2004 01:29:17 AM · #7
My shot is paying homage to a winner by imitation, but not exact copy as that would be impossible. It is the idea and technique which I attempted to imitate.

I've given a lot of thought to the score before entering this one. I really enjoyed doing this photo, but it's not as good as I had hoped it would be. Also, because it's NOT a "carbon copy" of the original, it may lose points there as well. I'm not really sure, so I just decided to enter and not really be concerned at all with the score. It's more for the feedback.

As for how I am anticipating scoring...I am looking for work clearly inspired by a winner...whether as parody or imitation matters not to me. After that, as was said before, the photo stands on it's own merits.
 12/19/2004 07:45:24 AM · #8
I really like my shot on its own, but when it's compared to the original photo, it just looks so bad! I think the problem in this challenge will be that it's gonna be really hard to match the quality of the original photos!
 12/19/2004 07:57:18 AM · #9
Personally I feel that as long as there is a definite connection between the 2 photo's it meets the challenge.

I think voting will be all over the place on this one.

I too am adding the image ref number in the title, I hope lots of people do.
 12/19/2004 08:01:37 AM · #10
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I won't vote based on how well of a 'copy' I see for sure. If I didn't like the photo that was copied, chances are I won't like the new version unless it has been improved in some way.

I also don't expect that 'variations' will do well since the theme of the challenge is to copy or parody.


Well, I hope people extend the range of it a little more. Perhaps it is right that people should simply attempt a copy of a previous winner, but to my mind that is a pretty boring approach, only useful as a technical exercise.

Nothing against technical exrecises, per se.

E
 12/19/2004 08:04:15 AM · #11
I'm wondering how many voters will trawl through the archives to check that a previous ribbon winning shot was used as the inspiration!

Assuming that the entry bears the name of the specific challenge, it would still mean comparing each shot...
 12/19/2004 08:05:15 AM · #12
For my entry, I have started from a previous ribbon winner and made the entry my own. I hope many others will do the same.

While a copy of an entry will certainly meet the challenge, the highest scores I give will go to entries which start from a previous ribbon winner and successfully adapt or improve the entry to make it unique.

-Terry
 12/19/2004 08:06:27 AM · #13
I'm just relying on people remembering the photo. I don't want to spoil my title by adding numbers and links to old challenges as I think the title is part of the presentation of the photo. If people don't remember the photo, I am hoping they will either go and find it, or take my word for it that it's a ribbon winner.
 12/19/2004 08:08:45 AM · #14
Should your title be the same as the image that inspired you, be the name of the challenge it appeared in, or include the artist who took it?

My image does not look much like the image that inspired me. Instead it was the idea/technique, that I mimicked.
12/19/2004 08:10:49 AM · #15
My title is different from the challenge, photo, and photographer that I used.
 12/19/2004 08:53:12 AM · #16
Originally posted by jpochard:
My shot is paying homage to a winner by imitation, but not exact copy as that would be impossible. It is the idea and technique which I attempted to imitate.

I've given a lot of thought to the score before entering this one. I really enjoyed doing this photo, but it's not as good as I had hoped it would be. Also, because it's NOT a "carbon copy" of the original, it may lose points there as well. I'm not really sure, so I just decided to enter and not really be concerned at all with the score. It's more for the feedback.

As for how I am anticipating scoring...I am looking for work clearly inspired by a winner...whether as parody or imitation matters not to me. After that, as was said before, the photo stands on it's own merits.


My picture is also paying homage, I`ve used a different title but with the image number added but I may remove this before the challenge starts.

The picture isn`t a carbon copy but similar; if it scores above my average of 5.2761 :) I think I`ll be happy.

Geo
 12/19/2004 09:27:18 AM · #17
Originally posted by spydr:
Should your title be the same as the image that inspired you, be the name of the challenge it appeared in, or include the artist who took it?

My image does not look much like the image that inspired me. Instead it was the idea/technique, that I mimicked.


My title is similar but not identical. I did not include challenge names or image ID's or anything like that, since I'd be stuck will all that when I offer my image as a print.

I hope that voters who cannot connect a particular image with a past entry will either assume that it meets the challenge or ask the photographer for clarification in a comment.

-Terry
 12/19/2004 09:31:28 AM · #18
Originally posted by Chrisds:
I'm wondering how many voters will trawl through the archives to check that a previous ribbon winning shot was used as the inspiration!

Assuming that the entry bears the name of the specific challenge, it would still mean comparing each shot...


I plan on having two browser windows open with one set to Challenge Archives.

//www.dpchallenge.com/challenge_archive.php

Hopefully in most cases there will be some reference to the original...there are alot of ribbon winners out there from the past couple of years to remember.
12/19/2004 10:00:13 AM · #19
Originally posted by e301:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
....If I didn't like the photo that was copied, chances are I won't like the new version unless it has been improved in some way...


Well, I hope people extend the range of it a little more. Perhaps it is right that people should simply attempt a copy of a previous winner, but to my mind that is a pretty boring approach, only useful as a technical exercise.

Nothing against technical exrecises, per se.
E

ED: you've nailed it.
The originals are (most often) SOOOO good that improving on them will be really difficult. And probably pointless, that photo ribboned on quality. Redoing it for your own sake and as a technical challenge/learning experience is good. Posting the same does not appeal to me.
I listen to a lot of music and one thing that I like are covers. Not just any old cover, but good covers. What constitutes a good cover (IMHO) is the following:
* A clear link to the original
* The artist makes the song his own, i.e. stamps his/hers identity on it.

Good example: Tori Amos' versions of Smells like teen spirit and Angie

As far as I can see the same applies to photos. Take an image and do it yourself in your own way.

This is exactly what I did. I actually wanted to do one photo but had problem (for weather reason) and then something came up (or down actually) and I saw a new approach to a well known photo here.

see also this other deja vu thread
- Petur
 12/19/2004 12:06:11 PM · #20
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by spydr:
Should your title be the same as the image that inspired you, be the name of the challenge it appeared in, or include the artist who took it?

My image does not look much like the image that inspired me. Instead it was the idea/technique, that I mimicked.


My title is similar but not identical. I did not include challenge names or image ID's or anything like that, since I'd be stuck will all that when I offer my image as a print.

I hope that voters who cannot connect a particular image with a past entry will either assume that it meets the challenge or ask the photographer for clarification in a comment.

-Terry


So you made a copy, and are going to offer that as a print? Seems like th ephotographic equivalent of plagarism. Perhaps if i saw the 2 images...

My entry is a (poor) attempt to directly dup another photographers work. Partly becasue i like his work and I know him. partly because i want to take pictures of this particular subject and this is great practice and comparison of my skills/camera to his. (I lose on both accounts, BTW)

My title is the same as his, and in () i have the challenge title.
I have NO hopes for the score i might get...the voters here are way too fickle and unpredictable for me to guess beyond the obvious (does not meet challenge cause i can't find the original-or some variation of that)

As for comment verification, folks can now keep their identities anonymous while voting..so clarification may not be possible. many don't like the PM bit during a challenge anyway...

I feel the best image will win, pretty much as usual. other than that it is a crapshoot, and I have thrown my dice, for better or worse.
 12/19/2004 12:16:54 PM · #21
I've gone through all the ribbon winners a few times now getting ready for voting. From what other people are saying i'm gonna take the number out of my title.
 12/19/2004 12:31:01 PM · #22
Taken the number out of mine.

Shouldn`t be to hard to search for the original

Geo
 12/19/2004 12:46:36 PM · #23
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
For my entry, I have started from a previous ribbon winner and made the entry my own. I hope many others will do the same.

While a copy of an entry will certainly meet the challenge, the highest scores I give will go to entries which start from a previous ribbon winner and successfully adapt or improve the entry to make it unique.

-Terry


Improve is so subjective. What may be an improvement to one person could be totally destroying the original image to another. I would think it would be nearly impossible to duplicate exactly someone else's work unless it had no soul and was a totally technical image. I'd like to think that an image has something of the photographer in it, whether it be thought, mood, or some other kind of influence. Unfortunately I also believe that based on the way the voting masses have voted in the past that they will crucify anyone that does not either directly parody or completely replicate an image. That is why I think having the image be inspired by instead of duplicated to make for a more interesting challenge.
 12/19/2004 01:32:07 PM · #24
I'm getting a really sinking feeling here. My picture is definitely inspired by, rather than being of copy of. I had no real interest in producing a picture that looked exactly like a previous winner.
 12/19/2004 01:46:27 PM · #25
My entry is an imitation of the original... subject, composition and technique. I hope the voters reward the entries accordingly whether inspired, imitated or a parody.

I initially plan on submitting a print file seeing that the original photographer doesn't have it on DPCPrints, not sure if there is anywhere. I thought about the plagiarism issue so I plan to pm the photographer after the challenge if he would agree.


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