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12/13/2004 10:56:09 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
I do not for one bit believe that it is the camera that makes you a winner. |
I agree with this. But also reconize that a better camera can help a photographer to use their skills to the fullest extent, assuming the skills are there to begin with.
Originally posted by samtrundle:
What cannot be argued about this post is that, for whatever reason, those with expensive camera's (not just dSLR but upper range prosumers too) tend to win most of the challenges. For some of us at the shorter end of the equipment stick this may be a little daunting. One thing I would point out is that a lot of people simply can't afford a dSLR, so to make the assumption that they don't own one because they aren't interested in photography, or, worse yet, don't have the requisite skill, is quite the elitist statement. |
Elitism thrives at dpc.
I think that, as a group, the dpc community is a relatively afluent bunch. Most of us are not forced to buy the minimum camera we can get by with. This results in many here being "over-equiped", that is having better cameras than our skill level alone would justify or our aspirations would require. How many times have we seen a newbie post in these forums asking for advice on purchasing a camera and lots of responders tell them to get a DSLR; or assume that whatever camera they buy will be only a stepping stone to a DSLR? Or, how many times have we seen a poster advise a relative beginner to buy the high priced "industry standard" editing program because they will need it when they improve so they might as well get started on the learning curve now?
Far from feeling daunted, the lesser equiped among us should pick up the gauntlet. We should enter great shots to reinforce the argument that a less expensive camera with a good photographer holding it is more than a match for those who think a Rebel is an entry level digicam.
Message edited by author 2004-12-13 11:00:42.
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12/13/2004 11:06:55 AM · #27 |
I think that a lot of really great images on here come from non-DSLR cameras. The biggest thing to consider is not the camera, but the person behind it. Someone who is serious about photography and creating great images will devote themselves to the pursuit of improving their skills.
Acquiring better tools is just part of that, like a furniture maker who buys thousands of dollars worth of hand planes. In my hands, one of those hand planes is just an expensive way to wreck a perfectly good piece of lumber, but a talented furniture maker will make it sing as he uses it to create. |
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12/13/2004 11:08:56 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Elitism thrives at dpc.
I think that, as a group, the dpc community is a relatively afluent bunch. Most of us are not forced to buy the minimum camera we can get by with. This results in many here being "over-equiped", that is having better cameras than our skill level alone would justify or our aspirations would require. |
I notice this most when users ask for advice on lenses...It MUST be L-glass! Always!
Can't afford it? Then don't buy anything...save up until you can get the elusive L-GLASS!!!
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12/13/2004 02:40:57 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Elitism thrives at dpc.
I think that, as a group, the dpc community is a relatively afluent bunch. Most of us are not forced to buy the minimum camera we can get by with. This results in many here being "over-equiped", that is having better cameras than our skill level alone would justify or our aspirations would require. |
I notice this most when users ask for advice on lenses...It MUST be L-glass! Always!
Can't afford it? Then don't buy anything...save up until you can get the elusive L-GLASS!!! |
I've given advice on here about lens selection and I have never made any statements about L glass being a must have. From what I hear, it's definitely a step up in most cases and a nice to have item, but not a necessity for most. |
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12/13/2004 02:45:12 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I've given advice on here about lens selection and I have never made any statements about L glass being a must have. From what I hear, it's definitely a step up in most cases and a nice to have item, but not a necessity for most. |
All though my post was a generalization (and made in jest), it really does seem like most Canon lens discussions end in L-glass recommendations...
That being said, I am taking that advice and won't be buying the $200 telephoto lens I was looking at...not yet, anyway. |
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12/13/2004 02:48:49 PM · #31 |
I went back 10 challenges and 23/30 ribbons have been awarded to DSLRs. That IS a high percentage. BUT - 2 of those 10 blues were not DSLRs. So there is a chance!
:)
M-D-Rebel
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12/13/2004 02:49:57 PM · #32 |
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12/13/2004 06:04:22 PM · #33 |
[/quote]Elitism thrives at dpc.
Far from feeling daunted, the lesser equiped among us should pick up the gauntlet. We should enter great shots to reinforce the argument that a less expensive camera with a good photographer holding it is more than a match for those who think a Rebel is an entry level digicam. [/quote]
This is basically my primary sentiment... I started my post along the lines that the most important tool in the bag is the photographer themselves, but perhaps the message got lost amongst the rest of my ramblings.
I don't doubt that this is on the whole, an affluent community - let's face it, photography is an expensive hobby (sometimes prohibitively so). I was merely pointing out that it should be recognised that those confined to the point and shoot range are not necessarily so confined due to their incompetence with the camera/ lack of interest but rather, more often, their inability to afford a higher end camera.
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12/13/2004 06:11:54 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
... it really does seem like most Canon lens discussions end in L-glass recommendations... |
Why recommend ground beef when you could recommend steak?
Odd analysis, yes, but the point remains the same.
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12/13/2004 07:37:45 PM · #35 |
Not to hijack the thread...but it still got one 1 :)
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12/13/2004 09:17:27 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I've given advice on here about lens selection and I have never made any statements about L glass being a must have. From what I hear, it's definitely a step up in most cases and a nice to have item, but not a necessity for most. |
All though my post was a generalization (and made in jest), it really does seem like most Canon lens discussions end in L-glass recommendations...
That being said, I am taking that advice and won't be buying the $200 telephoto lens I was looking at...not yet, anyway. |
The absolute, hands down best Canon lens I own, without a doubt, cost $69. Sure it is a 50mm prime (non-L), but it is easily the sharpest lens you can own. The 100mm macro F2.8 (non-L) comes close too.
The problem comes when you want flexibility along with great quality. Zooms are pretty bad in general, so you end up paying a lot to compensate for the lazyness of not wanting to swap lenses and use zooms... Most of the cheaper zooms are such a trade-off of price and quality that they really are noticeably terrible, even compared to a $69 50mm prime lens. It can make that much of a difference. Even the 'mid' range L lenses don't come close to the visual quality of the primes. But they are more convenient.
Message edited by author 2004-12-13 21:20:49. |
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12/13/2004 09:33:55 PM · #37 |
This has probably already been mentioned, but...
Given that the four most popular cameras on this site (by far) are DSLRs, and that more serious photographers will tend to have more serious equipment, why would their dominance surprise anyone? Add to that the extra flexibility and low noise afforded by DSLRs, and I'd be shocked if they didn't hog a big percentage of ribbons. It's worth noting that the EOS 20D is now the 19th most popular camera on this site (out of over 1000 models), and it has only been around for a few months. |
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12/13/2004 09:37:41 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
This has probably already been mentioned, but...
Given that the four most popular cameras on this site (by far) are DSLRs, and that more serious photographers will tend to have more serious equipment, why would their dominance surprise anyone? Add to that the extra flexibility and low noise afforded by DSLRs, and I'd be shocked if they didn't hog a big percentage of ribbons. It's worth noting that the EOS 20D is now the 19th most popular camera on this site (out of over 1000 models), and it has only been around for a few months. |
I know it is silly to point this out too, but the average score for both the Canon EOS 20D and the Canon EOS 10D is lower than the 'average' for my 6 year old, 1 Mp, fixed lens, no frills HP Photosmart C20. (I say 'average' as I've only entered one photo from it, but it scored higher than average for both those SLRs - it is just slightly higher than the average for the EOS-1D too...) You can buy an HP Photosmart C20 on Ebay for $30.
Yes this is meaningless, but then mostly so is the idea that a great camera means a great score. Good equipment gives you more options and capabilities. Like a fine Chinese proverb, that can be a blessing and a curse at the same time.
Message edited by author 2004-12-13 21:40:13. |
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12/13/2004 09:40:25 PM · #39 |
| Expensive cameras don't take great pictures by themselves, but great photographers don't buy poor equipment to practice their art. |
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12/13/2004 09:57:17 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Expensive cameras don't take great pictures by themselves, but great photographers don't buy poor equipment to practice their art. |
Some seem to disagree :) [url=www.toycamera.com]At least these people probably would.[/url] |
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12/13/2004 09:59:42 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I've given advice on here about lens selection and I have never made any statements about L glass being a must have. From what I hear, it's definitely a step up in most cases and a nice to have item, but not a necessity for most. |
All though my post was a generalization (and made in jest), it really does seem like most Canon lens discussions end in L-glass recommendations...
That being said, I am taking that advice and won't be buying the $200 telephoto lens I was looking at...not yet, anyway. |
I know, many of the "What lens should I buy?" discussions do end up with "L or it's just crap" discussions. There is no disputing that they are great lenses either. Maybe someday I'll find out.
The best lens is NOT the one you are saving for, it's the one on your camera that you are shooting with. If I need sharp images, I'll stick with my 50mm f1.8 and use sneaker zoom. Hands down, it's the best $70 you can spend on a lens.
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12/14/2004 09:30:39 PM · #42 |
I still can't believe someone gave this shot a 1.
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12/14/2004 09:52:30 PM · #43 |
| If you look at the ‘Low Tech’ Challenge you will find that out of the 177 entries 96 were dSLR in relation to 81 consumer digital cameras. Yes there were more dSLR cameras within the TOP 25 but by percentage more dSLR’s scored below the 50% percentile than consumer digital cameras. So I believe it’s the photographer that is holding the camera more than what camera is in the photographers hands. |
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