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Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

12/22/2003 06:40:47 PM · #776

Originally posted by rcrawford:

Originally posted by GeneralE:
I can only observe that some eight thousand years of problem-solving by military superiority has led us to the present absurd -- and some would say untenable -- world situation. My high school tennis coach taught me that when you are losing, go with some other plan or style of play, as the one you are using is clearly not working.

GeneralE,
You say that the world situation is "untenable" and it sounds like you would like to start over from scratch yet it seem to me that the world has never been better. More freedom, less starving people, better healthcare, longer expected lifespan and, with the internet, the ability for worldwide communication. We all seem to have enough free time to sit around and generate the longest thread in history which tells me that the basics like food, water and shelter must be taken care of. I'm not saying we don't have problems now, but when was it better?

dont be ignorent. you and i have running water, but most humans on earth do not. and what kind of world is it when you and i sit here and argue about this stuff over the internet while sitting on our asses, in homes that are secure enough to have a computer, yet, millions of children starve to death everyday and millions more have a future about as bleak as bush's ability to tell the truth.

human life on planet earth is HIGHLY unballanced, and gets worse every year.

so how did it get this bad? why do we not learn from our own history? why do our schools teach our kids that columbus DISCOVERED america, when in fact, he CONQUERD it, slaudering/raping the hundreds of thousands of native americans in the process? why are we not told the true destructive nature of processed foods, sugar and white flower? why are we not told the truth about health? why are some people, like the shoalin munks, so advanced physically and spiritually, while others like americans are fat, unhealthy, lazy and for the most part, spiritually dead?

i think i believe at this point that human males when given power like those who control our world, become corrupt. its not that the wrong people go into office, i think that anyone that goes into office and gets teh power/money and ability to be corrupted, simply cant resist.

i think we should abolish money and live like tribes and comunities did hundreds of years ago. we need to go back to adapting to nature instead of making nature adapt to us.
problem is, there are too many humans on earth now. we cant do it. we cant keep going like this, its impossible.

solution?

there isnt one we will make on our own. i belive its too late, and leaders like george bush are taking us and teh world in the oposite direction we need to be going.
either an asteroid will hit, ice caps melt, ozone thins, aliens attack or show us the correct way to live, world war 3, massive polution, massive desease or some kind of similar catastrophic event will need to occur to 1. kill billions of humans to fix our overpopulation problm. 2. FORCE us to look at REALITY and FORCE us to CHANGE our greedy, self centered, ignorent and self centered ways.

but then again who knows.. maybe a miricle will happen and we will all suddenly wake up and open our eyes..

"Power Corrupts; Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely"
-Lord Acton, a British historian.

"Majority rule only works if you're also considering individual rights. Because you can't have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper." -Larry Flynt

Message edited by author 2003-12-22 18:49:31.

dacrazyrn

Nikon D300

12/22/2003 07:13:02 PM · #777

Originally posted by MadMordegon:

CHANGE our greedy, self centered, ignorent and self centered ways.

well...that is nature (what you have been talking about). Survival of the fittest? That doesn't happen anymore (except alot of third world countries). 95 year old parents in the hospital and they COR (heart stops) and the family wants every life saving procedure possible done!? keeping people alive by ways of a machine even though they have no brain activiity? I would absolutely love to go back to self sufficiency (cuz I can).
We would not all be here in the first place if there was not a bunch of self centered, greedy humans all through history. From the caveman scaring off sabre toothed tigers to steal their food, to all the wars and battles fought for whatever stupid reason some powerful guy pulled out of his butt. Power, fighting, greed, and self preservation is in your nature HUMAN! Is it not the same in most animal species, too? Alpha males, etc.?
By the way, does everyone see the irony with LOTR? You can't ask, be nice, sanction, or persuade Sauron (sp?) to not take over Middle Earth with his Orcs. It has to be done by battle. They HAVE to fight back. They have to fight for what THEY believe in. Fight for what is (suppose to be) good. And it is going to be the most popular movies ever? But, no lesson is learned from it? What the hell was I talking about? Anyway... (C:

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/22/2003 08:59:47 PM · #778

But how will it play in Toledo?

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/22/2003 09:03:00 PM · #779

Originally posted by dacrazyrn:

Originally posted by MadMordegon:
CHANGE our greedy, self centered, ignorent and self centered ways.

well...that is nature (what you have been talking about). Survival of the fittest?

That's fine, but the law of the jungle is incompatible the religious and moral tenets which purport to guide civilization. Isn't the whole point of having a society to overcome the imperitive to be top dog, and just be comfortable along with everyone else?

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

12/23/2003 02:35:22 AM · #780

as far as human nature goes..

do you guys think we were meant to end up this way? the most "comfortable" humans being the most out of touch with reality and nature?

were we meant to live lazy lives in front of the TV and PC being blasted by light and sound completly unatural to what nature would dictate? and with technology doing most if not all of our manual labor? one minute im watching the science channel talk about the machanics of the great piramids, then cut to commercial about fresh breath, then cut to commercial about the new BMW which has the ability to get you sex with hot chicks, then cut to commercial about the newest DVD player w/ sound system that will "blow your mind".
and people wonder why everyone had ADD? shit what doctors call ADD and proscibe a drug for, i call life in america in the 21st century.

when did we get the brilliant idea to start proccessing food?
to change it from human fuel to a new, dead but great tasting sludge that rots in the stomach causing cancer, ulcers, heart attacks, and a thousand other problems doctors call "deseases".

when did doctors get the wonderfull idea of only curing sympoms of sickness and not the problem?

why are american children able to eat fast food style food in schools, where their brains are suppost to be fit to learn, not suffer from low blood sugar, ADD and being turned into robots?

why did the schools version of the FDA start calling ketchup and relish part of the vegatable group?

why when al gore won the majority vote of americans is he not the president?

why are we standing by and watching like sheep while george bush starts wars using lies and media minipulation while inocent iraqi kids die and hundreds of american and british troops die for control of the worlds #2 oil supply?

why are we standing by and letting the bush administration destroy our planet, unduing much of the good clinton did to help the environment?

why do we seem to only see whats directly in front of us? and not what our children and grandchildren are going to have to deal with 50 years down the road because of our war mongering for oil, the biggest poluter of them all?

why do we spend billions of dollars on technology that makes life "easier" but we constantly take funds from projects for environmental technology and the space program?

why when i go to wallmart am i sorounded by extremely fat people riding moterized carts? since when do we cater to the ignorent and lazy? and why?

anyone? logical explination to our devolving?

sonnyh

Canon EOS-7D

12/23/2003 10:04:36 AM · #781

human life on planet earth is HIGHLY unballanced, and gets worse every year.

Mad-
I agree with this statement and every other thing you have said in your last post. Some things around here are disgusting.

Sigma 28-105mm f/2.8-4.0 Aspherical for Canon

12/23/2003 12:48:29 PM · #782

Originally posted by MadMordegon:

anyone? logical explination to our devolving?

any takers?

Rooster

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

12/23/2003 01:01:31 PM · #783

Tell it like it is MadMordegan!

12/23/2003 05:40:33 PM · #784

Originally posted by Rooster:

Tell it like it is MadMordegan!

heh i try.. i just dont usually get good responses :/

speaking of? anyone going to throw down?

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

12/23/2003 11:05:13 PM · #785

heres a good read for those who are mcdonalds regulars..
big mac crack

so.. ive got an idea! lets feed cows who are vegetarians, meat, better yet, lets feed them the meat of there own kind, wait no.. lets feed them the meat of there own kind that died from sickness and desease. then lets sell it to the people and then when the desease gets out, lets pretend we dont know why!

hokie

Nikon D2X

12/24/2003 12:01:38 AM · #786

I'll be glad to answer some of your "questions"

....do you guys think we were meant to end up this way? the most "comfortable" humans being the most out of touch with reality and nature?

A-out of touch with reality is an opinion. I am around people everyday who are in various states of reality. I could argue my reality is "real" and others is "false"

...were we meant to live lazy lives in front of the TV and PC being blasted by light and sound completly unatural to what nature would dictate? and with technology doing most if not all of our manual labor? one minute im watching the science channel talk about the machanics of the great piramids, then cut to commercial about fresh breath, then cut to commercial about the new BMW which has the ability to get you sex with hot chicks, then cut to commercial about the newest DVD player w/ sound system that will "blow your mind".
and people wonder why everyone had ADD? shit what doctors call ADD and proscibe a drug for, i call life in america in the 21st century.

A...what we were "meant" to do is up to me. Self determination, liberty, etc... If that means being blasted by light, reciting the tau or picking my nose...my choice. Everyone doesn't ADD. My daughter lives a regular Pop culture life, have a sense of self realization, scored over 1400 on her SAT's and is well on her way to being whatever whe wants.

....when did we get the brilliant idea to start proccessing food?
to change it from human fuel to a new, dead but great tasting sludge that rots in the stomach causing cancer, ulcers, heart attacks, and a thousand other problems doctors call "deseases".

A...if you are referring to processed sugars..they have been around a lot longer than when Coke Cola started using them to addict us to their products :-) I agree many folks (including myself) eat a little poorly BUT.....I will outlive the average lifespan of the human beings that came before me and ate all that hand picked stuff. I don't say current processing is all good. BUT..many new techniques in food handling have led to superior diets IF you are silling to choose wisely.

.....when did doctors get the wonderfull idea of only curing sympoms of sickness and not the problem?

Depends on the doctor. Once again..generalizations. I am aware of many doctors advocating routine exercise, proper diets, caution in over medicating yourself. I can name as many good doctors as bad. But that is like most things in life.

....why are american children able to eat fast food style food in schools, where their brains are suppost to be fit to learn, not suffer from low blood sugar, ADD and being turned into robots?

A..Your opinion. please refer to my daughter example above. Most of her friends do not suffer either. Choice in subject matter in school has never been higher. The days when I was in high scholl (22 years ago) choices were fewer and individuality was not as encouraged as today. I teach part time in high school.

...why did the schools version of the FDA start calling ketchup and relish part of the vegatable group?

A...don't know about this factoid but I imagine they could be considered derivatives :-)

...why when al gore won the majority vote of americans is he not the president?

A...it's called an electoral college system and there are other examples of Politicians winning the electoral college but losing the popular vote. This system was not invented just to keep Al Gore out. I don't much care for the electoral college system but after some of the discussions I have had with people who have the right to vote I don't now if I have total faith in the popular "vote for the guy willing to give me the most toys" system either:-P

...why are we standing by and watching like sheep while george bush starts wars using lies and media minipulation while inocent iraqi kids die and hundreds of american and british troops die for control of the worlds #2 oil supply?

A...whats the answer? Ignore threats until a vat of antrax is dropped into the New York City water supply? And I would say that the tens of thousands of Iraqi children gased by Saddam might say it was a good thing he was tossed..if they and their families were alive to have anything to say about it. And if you don't think Oil is important enough to fight wars over I would say I tend to agree (jsut casue I am like most folks and don't like wars) but I think that is a simplistic attitude. Let none of us be so cavalier about the worlds energy reserves. Next to food and shelter, energy is one of the most important commodities to current civilization. We need other energy sources to be sure but oil is where its at right now..(Until other fuels become more economically feasible in the next 20 years )

..why are we standing by and letting the bush administration destroy our planet, unduing much of the good clinton did to help the environment?

A...umm..are you insane? The NAFTA pack pushed by the Clinton admin has unleashed incredible industrial polution along the Rio Grande basin and his policies regarding restricting national forest maintenance (clearing old growth) has contributed to destruction of thousands of acres of forest lands. I worked for 10 years with a company that built textile plants and Clinton was an industral polluters wet dream by dismantling many of the safeguards that forced US companies to control their growth in countries like Mexico. Now it's a total free for all affecting economic and ecological stability.

....why do we seem to only see whats directly in front of us? and not what our children and grandchildren are going to have to deal with 50 years down the road because of our war mongering for oil, the biggest poluter of them all?

A...Sometimes the wars we fight today keep our children from having to fight the wars of tomorrow. I know the sacrifices my grandfather made during World War II has afford me freedoms I might not have enjoyed if facist movements in Europe were to have their way in the 1940's.

....why do we spend billions of dollars on technology that makes life "easier" but we constantly take funds from projects for environmental technology and the space program?

A...You need to be more specific here. What peter are we taking from to pay paul in your mind?

...why when i go to wallmart am i sorounded by extremely fat people riding moterized carts? since when do we cater to the ignorent and lazy? and why?

A...I could not answer this as i don't shop Walmart. My opinion is anyone who supports Wamart automatically loses 20 merit points in the argume t to wee who is more socially conscious :-)

anyone? logical explination to our devolving?

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/24/2003 12:15:59 AM · #787

Originally posted by hokie:

...why did the schools version of the FDA start calling ketchup and relish part of the vegatable group?

A...don't know about this factoid but I imagine they could be considered derivatives :-)

Ah, I believe this dates from the Reagan administration, when the ketchup served with (taxpayer-supported) school lunches was designated as fulfilling a "serving" of a "vegetable" for the purpose of meeting the mandated nutritional composition.

The funny part is that it turns out that the most important phyto-compounds found in tomatoes have a far higher bioavailability if the tomatoes have been thouroughly cooked, so that the cell walls are broken down (although it kills the Vitamin C). So if they are going to serve fries, slathering them in ketchup is probably at least a partial mitigation of the excess saturated fat content (good news if you like pizza, too).

hokie

Nikon D2X

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

12/24/2003 12:20:52 AM · #788

I do remember reading an article that stated tomato sauce was good for your health and that people with high concentrations of tomato sauce/pastes saw lower instances of heart disease.

But I would also imagine that too much salt in heavily prepared tomato sauses (and ketchups ) would be a very BAD thing!

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/24/2003 12:24:19 AM · #789

Ketchup also has a lot of sugar. Every major national and house brand of tomato sauce is available in an unsalted version, and tomato puree has no seasoning at all.

And of people with essential hypertension (no other disease to cause it), only some 30% seem to respond significantly to sodium restriction.

BTW: Can I call them French Fries again?

Message edited by author 2003-12-24 00:26:37.

ChrisW123

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

12/24/2003 12:31:55 AM · #790

Originally posted by MadMordegon:

as far as human nature goes.....

when did doctors get the wonderfull idea of only curing sympoms of sickness and not the problem?

Because *most* (not all) doctors are clueless, lazy people who got into the profession to make money instead of to help people. This may sound harsh but it's true. 99 doctors out of 100 prescribe a pill to cover the symptoms rather then get to the root of the problem because they basically don't have a clue. They are just robots that know that if xyz symptom occurs, give the patient xyz pill (some don't even do THIS well). The doctor is happy because he/she makes their salary, the pharmacy is happy because they sell their pill, and the patient is happy because they don't know any better to demand more.

There is no incentive for doctors to do more, simple as that, and most don't.

Originally posted by MadMordegon:

why when al gore won the majority vote of americans is he not the president?

Because in America we have something called the Electorial College (you may have missed this in school?). It prevents any particular area of the country from having an unfair effect on the vote. So each area (or State) in the country has an EQUAL effect on the vote. Get it? Sound fair?

No comment on the rest of your BS... :)

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/24/2003 12:43:26 AM · #791

Originally posted by ChrisW123:

... in America we have something called the Electorial College (you may have missed this in school?). It prevents any particular area of the country from having an unfair effect on the vote. So each area (or State) in the country has an EQUAL effect on the vote. Get it? Sound fair?

Did I miss something or didn't the voters of Florida (not to mention the nine "Justices") have at least the teensiest bit of disproportionate influence on the outcome?
The electoral college existed because when the fastest communications were by horseback, a representative vote was more practical. It serves little use today ...

Message edited by author 2003-12-24 00:44:40.

12/24/2003 03:45:55 AM · #792

excellent!

heres a good read for those interested: Keepings Secrets
if it asks for a login, press cancel :)

Miah

Sony DSC-S85

12/28/2003 08:06:54 AM · #793

let's save ourselves some time.. i read the first and last few comments.. this argument will lead nowhere. (except into further argument) look at it this way: YOU ARE ALIVE NOW. DUUHHHH... is that a wake up call for ANYONE?

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/28/2003 01:53:27 PM · #794

Originally posted by Miah:

And some 450* young American service-people (and, literally, uncounted numbers of Iraqis) are dead. U.S. credibility (not to mention credit) is in the pits both at home and abroad. This due to the imperial proclivities of a government which continually lies to its citizens, disguising its true mission with righteous rhetoric.

If you were to consider the middle-class an ethnic group, this administration would be guilty of practicing genocide.

Shall we all just shut up and take our McPaychecks to WalMart like this President says, or speak out and act against the injustices as our Founding Fathers instructed?**

References:
* //www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm
//lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx

** //lcweb2.loc.gov/const/declar.html
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Miah

Sony DSC-S85

12/28/2003 04:38:56 PM · #795

again, YOU are alive.. if you're going to do something, do it.. talking makes you look passionate, but for god's sake.. the forums on a website for photography??

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/28/2003 04:59:00 PM · #796

This is also a community of people who have "met" through a common interest in digital photography, but who often share ideas about a multitude of tangential issues.

The Rant Forum section exisits specifically to give people an area to communicate about things not expressly photographic. You have an option in your Preferences to suppress display of the Rant threads on your Home page if you'd rather address these issues in another forum or ignore them altogether.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/28/2003 10:44:08 PM · #797

By signing the bill on the day of Hussein's capture, Bush effectively consigned a dramatic expansion of the USA Patriot Act to a mere footnote. Consequently, while most Americans watched as Hussein was probed for head lice, few were aware that the FBI had just obtained the power to probe their financial records ...

//www.truthout.org/docs_03/122903A.shtml

joshua

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

12/28/2003 10:48:11 PM · #798

Originally posted by GeneralE:

in these times you can either choose to be paranoid a la GeneralE and others or you can accept the fact the terrorism around the world is at its lowest levels in decades as a result of such terrible legislation.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/28/2003 11:18:38 PM · #799

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.