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06/17/2025 09:30:44 PM · #1 |
This is a pattern and starting to get ugly. Hopefully the SC can look into it. 7.6 down to 7.2. I have noticed the pattern that within the last hour of the challenge, there are either 2 or 3 voters that do this. And it is just not me that has noticed it, there are several other members that have mentioned it. I understand giving low votes, I have done it as have others. But when it is a systematic pattern that happens on nearly every challenge, then that is a plan. Not cool
Message edited by author 2025-06-17 23:33:18. |
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06/18/2025 08:08:08 AM · #2 |
Response deleted. Unfortunately there does not seem to be a solution to this problem :(
Message edited by author 2025-06-18 09:25:04. |
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06/18/2025 12:48:59 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by GolferDDS:
Response deleted. Unfortunately there does not seem to be a solution to this problem :( |
From what I know, this is a correct statement, specifically.
However, please trust that SC Administrators do a very good job of monitoring voting abnormalities and dealing with them. |
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06/18/2025 01:06:54 PM · #4 |
I did a little number crunching this morning and looked at voting patterns for DPC for three short windows (10 challenges) in June 2003, June 2014, and current 2025.
As SC, we can see some summaries, one of which is a total number of votes for each numeric vote (i.e # of 10's, 9's ... etc.).
I entered these values into a spreadsheet, summed the number of votes per challenge, and the number of votes per numeric category (10,9,8,7...) to then get a percentage representation for each.
I've noticed a trend, even before doing this exercise, where the voting scale has shifted and not as many people use the full range anymore (i.e. vote nothing under a 5, or all 6's and 7's).
I noted Larry's comment (before he deleted it) about this being a learning site. IMO, it really hasn't been one for a long time. I think there are a couple of approaches our community takes in entering challenges: 1) very competitive and enter to win, or 2) entering for fun because they enjoy the challenge of capturing theme based imagery, and 3) a few newbies here and there that are still figuring this place out. However, saying that, if you look at the stats, the level of votes in the 1 to 3 range were much more common in the early "learning" days. We're slightly heavier now in the voting range of 6 thru 9 than in the early days.
This points to a full size image of the chart and numbers.
I've resized it down to 800 for posting here (which I hope doesn't mess anyone up - our forum limit is still 500 - let me know and I'll go smaller).
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06/18/2025 01:14:46 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
Originally posted by GolferDDS:
Response deleted. Unfortunately there does not seem to be a solution to this problem :( |
From what I know, this is a correct statement, specifically. ... |
The problem is the low number of votes and the impact that one vote can have - it seems more profound, especially when you see it when you do a vote refresh that coincides with a lower vote. Without more participants this isn't going to change. IMO, the problem isn't having some low votes sprinkled around - there's always going to be mixed reaction when it comes to "art/photography". Entries that end up in the bottom third of the results also have higher votes - why? Because those were liked by some, but not all perhaps, and the flip side for top third results having some low votes. |
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06/18/2025 02:01:51 PM · #6 |
That's an impressive statistical analysis Barry! Back in the old days when there was 100 votes per entry if 10 votes (10%) were 1's it did not seem to feel as bad as now when there are 20 votes 19 of which are scored 5 or above and 1 (5%) which is a score of 1. It's interesting psychologically that the 1 vote really sticks out because it doesn't seem to make sense with respect to the total.
I understand your belief that this is not primarily a learning site like it used to be; less comments, less photography discussion in the forums, etc. but I do feel that you cannot help but learn when looking at challenge results, comparing to one's own entry, and thinking how to improve. Just the effort of entering a challenge is a learning experience as one often has to learn new techniques just to satisfy the challenge. For me that is still a challengenand the joy after 23 years of membership. |
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06/18/2025 04:00:34 PM · #7 |
Yeah... I have the same number of votes as yesterday and the day before, but I have eight less points of votes.
My score dropped significantly.
I NEVER change my vote lower. I figure that if I thought it was that score when I first saw it, then I can either raise it, or keep it the same. Not lower it.
Ever.
To each his or her own... :D
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06/18/2025 04:58:41 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by GolferDDS:
Just the effort of entering a challenge is a learning experience as one often has to learn new techniques just to satisfy the challenge. For me that is still a challengenand the joy after 23 years of membership. |
Yep. That's my experience for sure. Yet, somehow, it's REALLY hard to disentangle the philosophical objectivity and intrinsic reward of the learning experience from the comparative rating system and the psychological sting of being compared numerically to others. There have been several thoughts I've had since coming back to the community with this smaller number of voters:
(1) Personally, I wish the voting process were sealed off until the voting period ended. I'd rather not know how any given vote increases or decreases my score in real time. I'd rather just open up the results page when the challenge ends and see how it all turned out. Same with comments. As much as I love those comments and grow from them--including the critical ones--I almost wish they were all just made available alongside the final results rather than visible to me along with the identities of the commenters in real time as the challenge is in active voting. I realize the platform allows anonymization of comments during voting, if the user so elects, but I wish everyone felt that sense of psychological safety to vote their integrity and offer constructively critical comments without fear of hurting any one's feelings or being targeted or retaliated against. Instead of it being a constant roller coaster, it's just a momentary disappointment if a photo underperforms your expectations. You learn from the feedback, congratulate your peers, and go out and address the next challenge.
(2) I have so often wished there was a more granular rating system to mitigate the reduction in voting volume. Honestly, I have no sense of what ratings actually mean on here any more because it seems that the distance between Blues and last-place entries is rarely more than 2.5 to 3.0 points (i.e., high 4s and high 7s). I can't help but wonder if there was a way to vote, say, on a scale of 1 to 100 instead of 1 to 10 or in at least half-point increments (e.g., 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, ...) whether there would be a more nuanced challenge results tally that would reduce the impact of rogue outliers and embolden voters to upvote in cases where they felt something was better than, say, a 6 but not quite good enough for a 7. Might it be that the normal distribution curve would get a little "rounder" and less angular? I don't know. But it might take some of the volatility out of the voting tabulation in real time.
I'm sure the SC does as much as it reasonably can to monitor the integrity of the platform. And I'm sure that making even seemingly minor "tweaks" like these are actually complex developmental things that might introduce costs that aren't more than offset by their potential benefits. Just sharing my thoughts as they've been occurring to me over the last couple months. I'm seeing and loving the creative growth I've been experiencing these past several months, and I'm so very appreciative of EVERYONE here--even those who don't vibe with my artistic choices--for being a safe place to try out new things and learn from mistakes and misjudgments. :-) |
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06/18/2025 05:44:30 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by kanaj:
(1) Personally, I wish the voting process were sealed off until the voting period ended. I'd rather not know how any given vote increases or decreases my score in real time. I'd rather just open up the results page when the challenge ends and see how it all turned out. |
You can turn off the display of your score during voting on the "My Home > My Preferences" page -- there's a check-box on the right side about halfway down ... |
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06/18/2025 05:56:16 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
You can turn off the display of your score during voting on the "My Home > My Preferences" page -- there's a check-box on the right side about halfway down ... |
Ha! So there is! I can't believe I missed that. Thanks so much for pointing it out. :-) |
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06/18/2025 11:52:18 PM · #11 |
| I suggest a new challenge - take a photo of what you think the 28th voter looks like ;) |
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