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DPChallenge Forums >> Individual Photograph Discussion >> War through the eyes of a photgrapher
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Showing posts 26 - 39 of 39, (reverse)
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 11/20/2004 01:50:20 PM · #26
My sincere apologies to Katrina if my initial response to her post has nudged this thread into "Rant" mode. Having said that, I think that the diverse views on this topic are very interesting and need to be expressed.
 11/20/2004 02:10:22 PM · #27
John Moore is the AP photographer of these images, and is admittedly embedded with the American military. This is hardly photojournalism and much more public relations.

Originally posted by riotspyne:
some moving war photos like the ones below that include stories

[
11/20/2004 02:14:49 PM · #28
Originally posted by fullmontez:
Originally posted by ridvanerkan:
I think this pictures are shown or published to deceive the nations... 1000 civil person are being killed per day in iraq. I know that war is not innocent or a game. But nowadays application of american army in iraq can not be acceptable. For example they can killed defenceless and wounded person in a mosque. That photographer's eye should catch this kind of things also, if they want to say something about the war...


I assume that the defenseless and wounded person in the mosque is in relation to the video of the Marine shooting. If you'd seen the video the defenseless man was faking death, an ever increasing stratagem used to take advantage of military personnel who follow the Law of War in which that action is strictly prohibited. In defense of his fellow soldiers he made a split second decision to protect all of their lives before the defenseless man could roll out a grenade or shoot either of them. Its called hostile intent and soldiers have the right to protect themselves. If you disagree, I feel sorry for any soldiers in your family or friends.

Thats the hard part! On rememberance day they were recounting what happened to certain soldiers during WW11. In one case a German held farmhouse was going to be blown up by canadian soldiers but one soldier was able to get 11 Germans to surrender thus saving their lives. He was shot and killed a minute later while trying to coax more to surrender, should he have just lobbed the gernades in killed them all and survived himself?

Message edited by author 2004-11-20 20:06:41.
 11/20/2004 02:19:36 PM · #29
Well, I have first hand experience with these so called innocent people. I was there folks, and trust me, they're not all that innocent. I am in the medical field so my job was sticktly to help the sick and wounded, american or iraqui equally. We don't carry guns as it is against the Geneva Convenction agreement, we are non combatants, however, that didnt stop some from trying to hurt us. While a lot of the iraquis we saw were glad we were helping, some just wanted us dead. On more than one occassion we got bitten, spit on, kicked, you name it. Some of them actually tried to stab us with our own pens. Some were very hostile, from children to adults. We also found out the horrible things these people were doing to themselves. Mothers and fathers were using their small children as human shields. I saw an american soldier that had to shoot a kid that was about 10 years old because he picked up a rifle and tried to shoot him. My point is, a lot more goes on than what you see on TV. While they're not all terrorists and anti american, not all american soldiers are heartless, cold blooded killing machines. As a matter of fact, not only do they have to live with the physical effects of war like an amputated leg or arm or whatever, but they have to live with emotional effects as well and trust me, it's not easy. I've never killed anyone, on the contrary, I helped them, and even I have to live with those images in head. Just my 2 cents.

As far as the pictures, they are awesome. I particularly love the one with the soldier holding the kid. He's in fact, a hopsital corpsman, just like me.

June
 11/20/2004 02:39:39 PM · #30

Thank you, June, for your personal account of your service with our troops in Iraq. It helps offset the anti-American military whine from some of the people in this thread, who came out of the Rants section through the backdoor.

One can usually identify these same people as having never served in the military, or in a hot combat area if they wore a uniform.

Your service, June, in the Naval Medical Corps carries forward a magnificent tradition which I saw, firsthand, in WWll in the Pacific...where the Japanese snipers targeted our medics.

But then, our DPC cadre of whiners neither knows nor cares.
 11/20/2004 02:45:10 PM · #31
Clearly war is more complex that what a mere photograph would suggest -- that goes without say. However, as Olyuzi pointed out, the photographs in question are "hardly photojournalism and [are] much more public relations." As consumers of information, we should be able to tell the difference, and recognize the propaganda that's published by ALL sides.

Again, as consumers of information, what's far more important is that our news diet be balanced; and, while the subject of war is spoken about in a clinical and abstract sense in the American media, the rest of the world gets a far less sanitized version of it -- specially those whose hearts and minds we're trying to win.

//fallujapictures.blogspot.com/

PS. Having read JEM's post above, I served in the Marines, '92-'98, as part of an artillery unit -- though, admittedly, never in combat. What I find curious is how war is often idealized by many that have never worn the uniform and, oftentimes, by those that will not do the dying.

Message edited by author 2004-11-20 15:10:06.
 11/20/2004 02:53:28 PM · #32
They are many sides to a war this is just one of them and is every bit as moving as the other sides. Good job, Katrina on the montage.
 11/20/2004 03:14:32 PM · #33
No one here who is speaking out about the war in Iraq is "anti-American military." I believe that we all greatly appreciate the men and women of our armed forces for doing the wonderful jobs that they do under some of them most horrendous conditions. We show our admiration for them by our desires for bringing them home, and not putting them in harms way, for what seem to be offensive and imperialistic reasons. We do, however, question the reasons for being in Iraq to begin with, as well as, question the military tactics being used. Those decisions are being made by our political leaders.

I would also venture to say that all of the posters on this forum have not, thankfully, had to deal with invading armies on the soil of their native, or currently lived in, countries. On the other hand, the Iraqi people have had to contend with the current war for the past 18 months, the Gulf War in 1990 carried out by President Bush I, and the 8 year war in the eighties between Iraq and Iran. I can not imagine how much their lives have been ruined and the frustrations they feel by the constant state of insecurity they have had to live in since 1980, but imagine it to be great. I can understand why, even when the good people of our military try to help, the people of Iraq express their anger and hatred of all foreigners, especially after being injured themselves, or having had loved ones injured.
 11/20/2004 03:29:30 PM · #34
Originally posted by JEM:
One can usually identify these same people as having never served in the military, or in a hot combat area if they wore a uniform.


I am one who resents that characterization. True, I have never served in the military but I have a young son in the marines in Afghanistan. He will be home from his second deployment in December, then off to Iraq in March. He is onky 20. I have earned my right to be critical of the war in Iraq. It is difficult to describe the strain it puts on families. Please think before you generalize, your statements can be hurtful.
 11/20/2004 03:29:44 PM · #35
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
No one here who is speaking out about the war in Iraq is "anti-American military." I believe that we all greatly appreciate the men and women of our armed forces for doing the wonderful jobs that they do under some of them most horrendous conditions. We show our admiration for them by our desires for bringing them home, and not putting them in harms way, for what seem to be offensive and imperialistic reasons. We do, however, question the reasons for being in Iraq to begin with, as well as, question the military tactics being used. Those decisions are being made by our political leaders.

I would also venture to say that all of the posters on this forum have not, thankfully, had to deal with invading armies on the soil of their native, or currently lived in, countries. On the other hand, the Iraqi people have had to contend with the current war for the past 18 months, the Gulf War in 1990 carried out by President Bush I, and the 8 year war in the eighties between Iraq and Iran. I can not imagine how much their lives have been ruined and the frustrations they feel by the constant state of insecurity they have had to live in since 1980, but imagine it to be great. I can understand why, even when the good people of our military try to help, the people of Iraq express their anger and hatred of all foreigners, especially after being injured themselves, or having had loved ones injured.


In 1990, we didnt invade Iraq. Iraq invaded Kuwait and we went to Kuwait to push the Iraqi army out. People can have their opinions, but they are mostly based on the information they are being fed. I have had the misfortune, or parhaps the fortune, to experience many things most people in the US or other "free countries" have not. I was born in Cuba and I lived there till I was 14. There's really not much difference between Fidel Castro and Sadaam Hussein. Most of you have no idea what is is to live under such oppression, not being able to speak your mind beacause you know that will be the last thing you ever say, not having enough food to feed your family unless you buy in the black market risking going to jail. The lives of the Iraqi people were ruined long before the US invaded and they have been in a constant state of insecurity for a long time too. Sadaam Hussein is responsible for unspeakable attrocities, more than you could EVER imagine, so the US wasn't the worst thing that has happened to those people. I dont mean to offend anyone, but most of you can only speculate. But then, once again, I might be just a little biased.

June
 11/20/2004 05:41:15 PM · #36
From what I have been told by Iraqi people themselves, The U.S. should never have backed down in desert storm this caused hundreds of thousands of people to be brutally murdered! Then during the recent invasion American soldiers did not try to stop any looting therefore they lost respect of the people. According to them Iraq was a safer place under Saddam, he didn’t flip flop and they understood him! I think these are some of the reasons that the people do not trust the U.S. military. Sure he was a terrible dictator that needed to be toppled.Iraq will be a better place for this action but it will take time!

Message edited by author 2004-11-20 17:42:10.
 11/20/2004 07:27:46 PM · #37
Back to photography - This is the website of a photographer who was attatched to my son's marine unit in Afghanistan. It shows "the other side". The link was sent to the marines by their commander. The photographer has made CDs of the photos available to each of guys in the unit.

Please look, these are wonderful black and white photos by Teru Kuwayama. They are NOT "rah rah America" by any means.

photos from the marines in afghanistan - "the other side of war"
 11/21/2004 12:45:45 AM · #38
While we didn't invade Iraq in 1990, we certainly bombed the heck out of their country and our troops did enter Iraq after pushing back the Republican Guard. So the Iraqi people, innocents, suffered greatly. We destroyed a great part of the Iraqi infrastructure from this war, including water treatment facilities and power plants. Hundreds of thousands of children have supposedly died as a result of these actions. Yes, the Iraqi people were suffering well before the US 2003 invasion, but not just from Hussein. They had been through a long 8 year war with Iran where both sides were armed with weapons of mass destruction by the US and other western states. (In fact, Secretary of the Defense, Donald Rumsfeld met with and befriended, Saddam Hussein in the mid eighties.) They lost many people in that war, and many suffered. Same could be said of the 1990 war, and now of the 2003 war. The Iraqi people have also suffered with over 10 years of economic and trade sanctions, and I'm sure they have just about had enough. This is not to defend Saddam Hussein in anyway, as I do realize he was a brutal and murderous dictator.

In addition, the US gave Saddam Hussein the go ahead to invade Kuwait when April Gillespie, the US ambassador to Iraq at the time, told Hussein there would be no consequences to his actions. I think you should ask yourself why this happened, and what there was to be gained by the Gulf War.

Cuba and Castro are a whole other story, but are you sure that the problems with food in Cuba are a direct result of Castro's policies, or could they also be from the sanctions and blockades by the US that began back in the 60's and have gone on for decades? As far as I know, Cuba had a good education system and good health care available to all it's citizens. (But, I may be wrong).

Originally posted by chiqui74:
In 1990, we didnt invade Iraq. Iraq invaded Kuwait and we went to Kuwait to push the Iraqi army out. People can have their opinions, but they are mostly based on the information they are being fed. I have had the misfortune, or parhaps the fortune, to experience many things most people in the US or other "free countries" have not. I was born in Cuba and I lived there till I was 14. There's really not much difference between Fidel Castro and Sadaam Hussein. Most of you have no idea what is is to live under such oppression, not being able to speak your mind beacause you know that will be the last thing you ever say, not having enough food to feed your family unless you buy in the black market risking going to jail. The lives of the Iraqi people were ruined long before the US invaded and they have been in a constant state of insecurity for a long time too. Sadaam Hussein is responsible for unspeakable attrocities, more than you could EVER imagine, so the US wasn't the worst thing that has happened to those people. I dont mean to offend anyone, but most of you can only speculate. But then, once again, I might be just a little biased.

June
11/22/2004 11:38:59 AM · #39
Originally posted by Fibonacci:
OK... Great deapth of feld... poor depth of vision.
Bob


So you don't like anything that doesn't support you narrow-minded view of the world?

What a pathetic person to be kept ignorant out of your own arrongance. Reminds me of the NYT Editor that said the Bush guard documents were fake but accurate. Despite what you see, you think there is some greater truth and ignore anything that doesn't support it, that is the road to fascism and ruin.
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