Impressionism - DPChallenge Forums

11/06/2004 03:20:09 PM · #1

Someone has asked are standard artistic filters allowed. A party answered, "Yes"

Advance editing does not allow artistic filters as this would open the way to plug-ins.

What is allowed is to make a copy and apply this copy in different modes other than normal, but I believe artistic filters are out.

Message edited by author 2004-11-06 15:20:34.

11/06/2004 03:27:57 PM · #2

are you certain?

i swear there is an october free study entry - maybe a couple which used the flood filter plugin.

11/06/2004 03:32:02 PM · #3

I may be wrong but I think not. That is why I want a site council to weigh in.

11/06/2004 03:36:27 PM · #4

well on that one photo i didn't send it for DQ because i was unsure about the legallity of it...

so please sound in...

11/06/2004 03:37:02 PM · #5

I stated as I did because there are no limitations in the advanced editing rules that exclude any type of filter application.

smokeditor

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

11/06/2004 03:42:27 PM · #6

I've been wonder this myself, but the rules say nothing specific about filters. The only interpretation i can see is in the "using tools to... create... major elements". Now a filter would create a major element being a artistic look.

________________________________________________________________________
"Your entry must come from a single photograph, taken during the specified challenge timeframe. You may not post-process your entry from or to include elements of multiple images, multiple exposures, clip art, computer-rendered images, or elements from other photographs (even those taken during the challenge week), and other similar items.

Cloning, dodging, and/or burning to remove imperfections and minor distracting elements is permitted, however using tools to duplicate, create, or move major elements of your photograph is not. You are encouraged to list all of the post-shot editing tools that you used in the "Photographer's Comments " section of your submission.

Any modification done inside the digital camera itself is considered acceptable for challenge submission.

No text may be added to your submission. This includes copyright statements."

11/06/2004 03:45:22 PM · #7

11/06/2004 03:46:16 PM · #8

That breaks in to the decision of what is and isn't a major element. Changing the look of something by creative use of the rules has already been deemed legal by the site council in one specific case that I'm aware of. That particular change also created the major impact in the photo and it was so indicated by the title of the image as well.

11/06/2004 03:48:21 PM · #9

Well, you must forgive my ignorance but I see no such statement that either prohibits or encourages. This is like something more readilly understood by the creators of the rules and I do not read this at all.

However, are these not the very filters that are so easily identifiable and rightfully hated by most DPC users?

John, I am accepting your word on this but I scratch my head in disbelief. I never knew that you can throw the kitchen sink in.

Message edited by author 2004-11-06 15:50:21.

11/06/2004 03:49:29 PM · #10

it may also bring up the discussion of photographic integrity again...

11/06/2004 03:54:12 PM · #11

Originally posted by graphicfunk:

This is why I would say that it is legal. The rules do not outline what we CAN do. They outline what we can't do.

Originally posted by graphicfunk:

However, are these not the very filters that are so easily identifiable and rightfully hated by most DPC users?

YES.

Originally posted by graphicfunk:

John, I am accepting your word on this but I scratch my head in disbelief. I never knew that you can throw the kitchen sink in.

"Throwing the kitchen sink in" feels a little extreme. Applying an artistic filter is not adding physical elements or other objects to the image. It is changing the feel and mood of the existing objects though. The example of the moon shot posted here would likely be illegal because physical elements that did not exist in the original image have been added.

11/06/2004 04:02:43 PM · #12

But then adding a tile effect is adding elements that do not belong.

11/06/2004 04:27:55 PM · #13

Originally posted by graphicfunk:

But then adding a tile effect is adding elements that do not belong.

There are probably some types of filtering that the site council would deem illegal. There is just nothing in the rules that specifically state which filters can and can't be used. It's left up to the photographer to be the judge and the site council will be the jury.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

11/06/2004 04:33:12 PM · #14

A good reply...but the implication then is the rules are not in stone and that any image can be disqualified depending on the license taken by the member which as you state are not spelled out and up to councils' discretion. Is this the best way to go? And is it not best to spell out the filters that will not be accepted? Why allow their use if their final aim is to dq them?

Message edited by author 2004-11-06 16:34:29.

BobsterLobster

Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro

11/06/2004 04:45:23 PM · #15

If the photo looks too fake or filtered, the DPC voters will have their say and it will place low... even if the SC decide to vote in favour.

11/06/2004 04:46:06 PM · #16

Originally posted by graphicfunk:

This is true. I think this rule set is aimed at the photographer and his/her judgement. It's placing the burden of the decision on our side, which I believe is a VERY good thing.

If the rules were more definitive, they would be more cryptic at the same time. When you start spelling out things that are and aren't legal such as filter usage, you have to go list the filters that are available in every possible editing application and extra plugins as well. The way the current rules are stated require the photographer to evaluate whether or not the filter in question would be acceptable under the guidelines of the existing rules. If they do come into question, the collective site council will make a decision.

bobdaveant

Canon EOS-60D

11/06/2004 04:46:08 PM · #17

I'd really like to know if this type of filtering is allowed, as shown below in a past challenge, it was quite aqcceptable....I was just DQ'd for using this same filter. What gives?

11/06/2004 04:47:23 PM · #18

Originally posted by bobdaveant:

I'd really like to know if this type of filtering is allowed, as shown below in a past challenge, it was quite aqcceptable....I was just DQ'd for using this same filter. What gives?

If you were disqualified and it held up in a past challenge, you should protest the disqualification. The 'standard' would have been set unless the previous photo did not get a disqualification request.

bobdaveant

Canon EOS-60D

11/06/2004 04:49:45 PM · #19

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by bobdaveant:
I'd really like to know if this type of filtering is allowed, as shown below in a past challenge, it was quite aqcceptable....I was just DQ'd for using this same filter. What gives?

If you were disqualified and it held up in a past challenge, you should protest the disqualification. The 'standard' would have been set unless the previous photo did not get a disqualification request.

This is the information I was given...." the use of effects filters are both not permitted in 'Basic Editing'. Please review the challenge submission rules."

and it is a advanced editing challenge, I have sent a message to the admins.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

11/06/2004 04:49:59 PM · #20

i would vote that no artistic filters ( as in the filters menu in photoshop ), or plugins be legal - besides the sharpening tools, and gaussian blur. that's a pretty clear explanation for what is and isn't legal. though undoubtably there will still be questions about it.

Message edited by author 2004-11-06 16:51:08.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

11/06/2004 04:50:06 PM · #21

It may not be WHAT filters you use, but HOW you use them. Unsharp Mask is one of the most commonly used tools available (and certainly legal), however using it to an extreme, where the sharpening itself becomes a major part of the image, would likely result in a DQ. It's no different than allowing use of the clone tool, but forbidding the cloning of major elements. When any filter becomes a major aspect of your image, then you're treading on thin ice.

bobdaveant

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

11/06/2004 04:52:38 PM · #22

Thanks for the explanation, I won't be that bummed if it stays DQ'd - the score was below a 5 when it was dq'd. Still, I want to know the rules, so I don't run into this situation again.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

11/06/2004 04:56:08 PM · #23

Nothing against EddyG, but I'd be curious to know how this one was allowed...

The primary interest of the image is the color that was added in Photoshop. While it can be argued that it's sort of a "reverse-desaturation," the color in this case is much more than a mere enhancement. The image is all about the artificially-added colors.

marbo

Nikon D5000

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

11/06/2004 04:56:58 PM · #24

Hey thats my moon pic :) beauty isn`t it.

However i consider this totally against the spirit of DPC rules and would never enter such a photo in a challenge. This is digital art and i only did it for fun but when lots of people added it to their favorites i put the print up.
This flood filter is clearly adding major elements to the image and can in no way be legal under the advanced editing rules.