Is the juice worth the squeeze? - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR

11/01/2004 06:40:19 PM · #1

As a busy person (2 jobs, twins, houework etc.) I have begun to wonder if taking the time to enter these challenges is worth it.

I love my own work and always shoot for myself. On the other hand I upload photos to dpchallenge hoping to find people with some similar tastes. I also realize I am not the greatest, and by no means even close. I do think though, that my work is better than I get credit for. I hope me saying that does not make you (the reader of this post) think that I believe I somehow should be a 'winner' because winning is the furthest thing from my mind. My question to anyone who wants to answer, is when is it considered 'kicking a dead horse'. How does the avg reader feel about posting their heart (their work) before the world?

I know I wanted to see the worlds reaction to my statement. Now that I've heard it, is there any reason to continue posting? I am concerned that by listening too much to others opinions I might stray from my original intent. Does anyone else have this problem? I also wonder why people base all of their judgement on their own ideas, as opposed to taking a moment to realize what the artists intent might be. Is this something that anyone finds themselves doing? I know I am guilty of that sometimes.

The last thing is, I have heard many people say 'you only fail if give up'... but isn't trying the same thing over and over again expecting a different result,, insane? The last person I asked this told me 'photography isn't doing it over and over again'.. I replied 'why do you take 40 shots of the same thing and pick 'the best'? Isn't that doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result?

Anyway, maybe this should have been a rant but I feel it's more me discussing my vision, and fleeting interest in posting my personal artistic statement.

Joe.

jbeazell

Nikon D3100

11/01/2004 06:55:33 PM · #2

looking through some of your photos, I'd like to say that your work is incredible. It is very moving, and very personal. I don't have the guts to post photos as moving as yours. Don't take low scores as an indication that your work is not valued, or apreciated. You have to pursue this through the end, and keep shooting. You have a talent, and an eye, and those are the some of the most difficult things to obtain. You either got it or you don't, and you got it.

The trick with DPC, is that the voting public is very myoptic when it comes to interpreting the challenges. If your photo doesn't hit them in the face with the challenge, you won't get high scores. This isn't an indication that your work is not good, just that voters at DPC are very hard nosed when it comes to 'meeting the challeng,' as they honestly should be. If that slips, then DPC is not a valued resource.

Remember, DPC measures a photographer's ability to shoot a (sometimes esoteric) subject. Some photographers are better at thinking in the box and coming up with the perfect 'hit you in the head' subject, whilst the rest of us struggle for it!

Please, keep going! Don't stop now! Your artistry shouldn't suffer because the voting public here had a bad week :)

11/01/2004 06:59:39 PM · #3

Thanks, I truely appriciate it.

Joe

deapee

Kodak V803

Fujifilm XF 23mm f/2 R WR

11/01/2004 07:00:52 PM · #4

When it all really comes down to it, if you took a photograph and you absolutely loved it -- every time you looked at it, your mind just went completely blank and peaceful, then your posted it on here and it placed dead last in a challenge, how much would that really matter?

I'd say don't put such an emphasis on those that don't like your work (unless you feel the need to please everyone else). If you are happy, focus only on those who find your work good as well. It all really comes down to what you hope to get out of photography.

Myself, personally, I intend to learn. I think that I can learn more on here in a month's time than I could spending a month in a bookstore. But that all depends on what it is that you want to learn.

I'm sure your work is appreciated by many...I say stick around.

aznym

Fujifilm X-T3

11/01/2004 07:02:15 PM · #5

What I have to say is, if you love what you do, continue doing it. Keep shooting and keep adding them to your portfolio. Don't worry too much about the scores from challenges. It might take a while, but your talent will surely be noticed and people are going to start appreciating your work. Would you prefer to be labelled or discovered?

11/01/2004 07:04:50 PM · #6

I value the well thought replies to this post. although before more people comment, I should point out that it was a question of wanting to continue posting, not shooting. thanks again everyone, I appriciate that you all would take the time (i know how valuble it is) to help a fellow artist feeling down.

thanks again.

joe

rscorp

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

11/01/2004 07:05:05 PM · #7

Well, only you can decide if it's worth your time to enter challenges but I wouldn't base your judgement on other people. I'm not that old, but I've come to realize in my 32 years that usually the so-called "experts" and "professionals" in any subject usually don't know more or have any more ability than the average person.

Case in point, a Wall Street analyst. Could they BE more wrong with their stock pics? And yet after they are wrong 95% of the time we go back for their opinion again and again and pay them lots of money. Why? Because they are supposed to know more than us. They don't.

If you like your photography and think it's good and you enjoy what you are doing, don't worry about some clown giving you a 2 or 3 in a challenge. This site is just supposed to be fun, but like all things a lot of people here seem to make it their personal mission to dose out their own little brand of justice. Ignore them, they don't matter and just enjoy the fact that you found photography as a hobby and enjoy it.

WHEW, that was a rant! Might be time for a Newcastle Brown Ale!

Kavey

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

11/01/2004 07:06:51 PM · #8

Whether or not it's time to give up depends a lot on WHAT your motivations for entering are.

If you enter because you find it personally interesting to work to challenge themes in a short time frame in order to stretch your own creativity then it's not time to give up.

If you enter because you enjoy finding out what a wide variety of people around the world think of your work in a specific context it's not time to give up.

If you enter because you are still able to learn from the experience it's not time to give up.

If you enter in the hope that the tastes of DPC will eventually change to the point that more voters will appreciate the kind of work you do best perhaps it is time to give up.

For what it's worth I think you have taken some great images.

Best of luck!
Kavey

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR

11/01/2004 07:07:24 PM · #9

Originally posted by rscorp:

No doubt, pass one over!

jbeazell

Nikon D3100

11/01/2004 07:12:36 PM · #10

Originally posted by magicshutter:

Thanks, I truely appriciate it.

Joe

No Problem! It's not just words, either. I went through a period when I wanted to throw my camera in the pool. Nothing fit, and although I really liked the shots, my scoring showed it.

Before I threw the camera, I went out on an early morning outing. I wasn't specifically shooting for a challenge, but for myself. From this, I got two of my highest scoring shots.

Short story: shoot for you, and remind yourself that no matter how many 'could have / should have / would have' comments you might get or how disparate your scores are to your gut instinct, that you are shooting for knowledge and understanding. Anything else, ribbon included, is just fluff :)

annasense

Olympus E-500 EVOLT

Olympus 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6 Zuiko Digital ED

11/01/2004 07:19:03 PM · #11

Originally posted by magicshutter:

I just want you to know that I feel the same way sometimes, it's not just you. I'll post a photo that I really, really like and just think other people *might actually like* this one, and when they don't, it's frustrating and really is a blow to my ego. It's especially difficult when there is no constructive criticism, offering advice on how to make the photo better or more pleasing-to-the-masses. I normally don't learn from my "mistakes." I love the feeling of taking a photo that I truly love, and I enjoy hanging them on my wall. But man, it really bums me out to see scores that never break 6, and the only one I've taken that did break 6 is one of the worst I've taken. Sometimes I think I should just not post anymore... because I don't like getting so bummed out about it. I know people say "do it for fun" or whatever, but sometimes I do just take it too seriously. Anyway, didn't mean to steal your thread. All I'm saying is other people feel this way sometimes. I'm on my 27th challenge, waiting for the experience to improve.

11/01/2004 07:29:08 PM · #12

Originally posted by annasense:

Originally posted by magicshutter:
I value the well thought replies to this post. although before more people comment, I should point out that it was a question of wanting to continue posting, not shooting. thanks again everyone, I appriciate that you all would take the time (i know how valuble it is) to help a fellow artist feeling down.

thanks again.

joe

I just want you to know that I feel the same way sometimes, it's not just you. I'll post a photo that I really, really like and just think other people *might actually like* this one, and when they don't, it's frustrating and really is a blow to my ego. It's especially difficult when there is no constructive criticism, offering advice on how to make the photo better or more pleasing-to-the-masses. I normally don't learn from my "mistakes." I love the feeling of taking a photo that I truly love, and I enjoy hanging them on my wall. But man, it really bums me out to see scores that never break 6, and the only one I've taken that did break 6 is one of the worst I've taken. Sometimes I think I should just not post anymore... because I don't like getting so bummed out about it. I know people say "do it for fun" or whatever, but sometimes I do just take it too seriously. Anyway, didn't mean to steal your thread. All I'm saying is other people feel this way sometimes. I'm on my 27th challenge, waiting for the experience to improve.

Can't steal a thread ;) but thanks for sharing, in a sadistic way i guess it feels good to know that other people are bummed about the same stuff I am. One day me and the mass may see eye to eye.

Pappie

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

11/15/2004 05:24:39 PM · #13

Damn Dude, it's not the photoraphy, it's the artist in you that is going up and down, happy and sad, it's the nature of a born artist not to be pleased all the time and often not know why. If we were, if we didn't look for the bad and have it drive us crazy, we would not reach new heights in performance. Not sure if posting is helping you but if you cannot find the answer to the current frustration, sometimes something here, something someone says related or unrelated, can fire the imagination and your off and running again. As a painter of oils for 30+ years, I look back and it has been the frustrations that benefit the most and drove me to the next level. I get inspired by these forums so I feel I should give something back. I critique when I have time! Post when you have time and contribute.

TacoVendor

Canon EOS-30D

11/15/2004 06:10:26 PM · #14

magic,

If you take a look at the couple of photos I did here and their score then you would think that I am in the same boat as you. Quite the contrary. I poked around here long before I even created a username, and paid for a membership a bit after that. Never entered a photo until recently.

The first of mine got panned pretty hard. My fault for throwing a picture up there that wasn't my best technically, but I did so for a reason. I hear so often about being individual and unique that I did the sports photo with all players moving in unison *away* from the camera on purpose. I got hit hard in comments for it. Now, the picture wasn't very sharp due to being held in my hands and not being able to control shutter times on there, but I wasn't looking for a score based on that.

In a bit of time after high school I worked taking those sports team portraits for a small local studio. One of the things that led me to that was the action shots I took of countless high school and other local sporting events. My pictures were placed into yearbooks and player 'resumes / portfolios'. I cannot say that I was a 'pro' photographer but I do know that my pictures were better than decent and my eye for catching the right action at the right time was also above par. Mind you, I took all photos then with a manual Canon AE-1. No auto advance, no auto rewind, no auto focus, no auto anything. Totally manual. Anyways...

I took the first photo I put up here to see if the unique angle and individualness of the capture would make a difference. Nope. Everyone (mostly) wanted the typical 'full frontal' action shot. Did I deserve a better score for the photo? Not at all, I would have rated it worse quite honestly and you can see my thoughts about it even in the notes when I submitted it.

When you ask about people liking the same sort of things as you I say to you this (and it is the only reasson I am responding here), I have voted on most of your images and the lowest you got from me is a 6. With my average score hovering just over 5, it should show how I feel about your images and subjects (execpt for the flower closeup - I don't particularly care for those and I didn't vote on yours due to that).

In short, what score you get doesn't make the photo good in your eyes. Some of the photos that I give 9's and 10's to end up with an average of less than 5. It is all subjective, and if you don't fit the mold that is laid out here (even though many say there isn't one) your scores will not be high.

Pick up the latest Life magazine and look through the pictures there. Anyone here would do about anything to get published in that magazine. Think about how some of those photos would rate here in a vote. That should tell you enough.

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

11/15/2004 07:02:50 PM · #15

Originally posted by TacoVendor:

Thanks for taking time to post on this few week old forum. I have done quite a bit of soul searching after posting this thread. And while I would be lying if I said I still didn't feel hurt by some of the outcomes, but who isn't right? I can't think of one person who would like rejection (which is exactly what it is, just not against the person the photographer is) of their vision. I do agree fully with what you say about it being subjective. I also want to thank you for taking the time to see what I saw in my photos as I believe it's only a matter of time which is often too limited. I am starting to understand how hard it is to understand something in the two minutes tops most people take to 'vote'. I try and comment and express why I personally didn't like it and try to avoid the 'you did this wrong, and this wrong, and your color was off, and it was too dark' etc. Because I don't really know if they meant it to be dark, or meant it to have different color effects. Anyway, enough with the rambling. Thanks again I appriciate the gesture.

Joe

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

11/15/2004 07:11:45 PM · #16

Joe,

I know where you are coming from :) In the past, I have spent a lot of time thiking about the things you have said here. I always come up with the same conclusions.

1. If I'm happy with my photography, nothing else matters.

2. If I submit somethign I'm completely happy with for public review, I'm gonna get a mixture of opinions. Some will be good and some will be bad.

These two items apply anywhere.

We all post our images to public forums hoping for positive reinforcement most of the time. Sometimes we get it and sometimes we don't.

There is no simple 'solution' to the issues you bring up other than to simply be happy with what you do and keep it to yourself. I do a lot of this too. I share about 1 out of every 4 or 5 photos that I consider 'keepers' these days. One possible solution is to form a group of people who share your same interests and create some sort of circle of friends who share photography, along with comment and critique. Taking the competition element out of it changes things significantly. DPC can give false impressions quite easily. You are being judged by your competition and you have to keep THAT in mind when you evaluate your comments and scores.

If you should decide to form a group of photographers who do this type of thing, let me know. I would love to participate :)

John Setzler

mrorange002

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

11/15/2004 07:28:31 PM · #17

Joe,

I've been photographing professionally for quite awhile now, and I know all about the up's and down's of photography. Sometimes i think "why the fcuk bother?" other times I think "YEAH! I love this!"

And about posting in a forum like this?

Well it does kinda suck when you don't do good. Even if you love it, and hopefully you do, it doesn't mean everyone else will. Go to a gallery sometime, and take a look at another photographers work. You might think "gawd, this sucks!" while someone else will think "I Love this! I gotta buy it!"

So don't post to a competition for a week or so.

I put my camera down for a week or 2 at a time. When I pick it back up, I remember why I love it.

So the gist of my rambles is this:

IMO - Don't just stop posting. maybe take a break. Take advantage of this site to learn from others. There are some DAMN good photographers on this site. All of us can learn alot from them. Man, there was 529 submittions for this macro challenge! Only 3 will be in the top! 450+ will be considered in the middle!

And jmsetzler points out this: " If I submit somethign I'm completely happy with for public review, I'm gonna get a mixture of opinions. Some will be good and some will be bad. "

This is how we learn.

I learned a long time ago when it comes to my buisness:
What the general public likes, sells.
What I like, may or may not sell.

What I shoot for my own personal satisfaction might not be what everyone else likes. But oh well. If i shoot something for my self, and others love it, that's a bonus.

Sorry for the ramble, I'm a photographer, not a writer! :-D

keep shooting, keep submitting.
Peace
E