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 10/15/2004 09:00:24 AM · #26
Originally posted by Anachronite:
According to the comparison of international crime statistics produced by the UN's Office for Drug Control and Crime Prevention, England and Wales had 9,766 crimes for every 100,000 people in the year 2000. America had 8,517, South Africa 7,997, Germany 7,621 and Russia 2,022.

During the period 1998-2000, Britain went from fifth to fourth worst in the world league table. An analysis of total recorded crime figures before 1998 also suggests that England and Wales have moved sharply up the league table since Labour came to power in 1997. Crimes fell from 5.5 million in 1993 to 4.5 million in 1997. By 1999, total crimes had risen again to 5.3 million.

I notice you've deleted the paragraph about how you have to look at these statistics with caution, because the countries have different criteria and methodologies for collecting these statistics.

It may well be that Britons are more dilligent about reporting crime; it's well-known that a fairly high number of crimes go unreported for various reasons.

Still not a pretty picture, but one which is hard to judge because of the cloudy glass through which we're forced to view it.
 10/15/2004 09:13:33 AM · #27
paul the paragraph was deleted because of the age of the article. if you look around a bit you will find that the stats have been verified, as well as estimated each year afterwards with similar results.

Ben, yes it is hard to get a gun if your an honest citizen. The criminals just buy one illegally and that is not difficult.. the crime rated there has gone UP since handguns were banned... your statistically safer in New York and Los Angelos than in London and Manchester...

yes LA has more murders... but the vast majority of those are gang members killing gang members...
 10/15/2004 09:13:41 AM · #28
yeah, as you might notice Finland has very high crime rates. These consists of mostly people beating up fellow creatures when under alcohol intoxication. People in finland are famous of being very silent and strict speaking. Perhaps the inability to communicate transforms to violence when something bothers in fellow creature.

In finland, possibility to get randomly beaten is among highest in western countries.
Changes to get killed by this violence is extremely low, among lowest in western countries. It is a national sports to have a streetfight in finland ;D.

This of course sucks, since this has lead to legistlation where the defender is also responsible of damage made to attacker. Basic case is that if someone tries to rob you and you brake attackers face, you end up paying for attackers face, get a criminal record. Since the robbery failed the robber usually get's it away with a fine (if the robber is not previously known to the police). Only exception is that if you tried all other possible methods to avoid the attack (speaking, calling for help, running for your life) and failed in them, then you will get lower penalities hurting the attacker.

Im not sure if this is good or bad. Assuming there will always be quarrel between humans I'd rather get mugged than shot. Each alternative sucks but the first one is far better comared to the other. Personally I would like hurt badly an idiot trying to break my face for fun or trying to rob me but I think the right to defend someones property or integrity with deadly force has some unintended side effects. We live in an imperfect world and have just to cope with it. Which of course sucks too.

Message edited by author 2004-10-15 09:16:17.
 10/15/2004 12:10:03 PM · #29
I hope your son makes a full recovery. The problem with the humnan race is there are too many idiots out there.

My theory is it's all because of safety devices, goverment assistance and warning labels. Darwins theory basically says the idiots will end up killing themselves and thus not breed and eventaully they would become extinct. AKA only the stong survive. We have warning labels such as "Do not eat" or "shut lawn mower off before sharpening blade" and safety guards on power tools that actually saves the lifes of these idiots allowing them to breed more idiots. Furthermore, goverment assistance allows idiots not capable of providing for themselves to actually breed and raise a family. The laws of nature and natural selection should prevent idiots from breeding, but we counter those laws and thus promote the advancement of idiocy. That's my theory.

PS please don't take my theory to seriously.
10/15/2004 12:20:48 PM · #30
Originally posted by louddog:
PS please don't take my theory to seriously.


Well, some might believe that theory to be correct for at least one or two people...LOL

I have to say though that the warning label thing is ridiculous. And hilarious. Makes for entertaining reading anyway! :o)
 10/16/2004 06:57:02 AM · #31
Thanks to all of you for your kind words, and thanks from Daniel as well, they were much appreciated.

He will be fine (I'm sure) and is at home now, resting. I spoke to him briefly last night but talking was a little painfull as his face is swelling (I think thats as much to do with the operation as the beating).

He didn't know anybody and cannot give a decent description of anybody so doubt the police wil be able to do anything unless they do it again (to someone else).

As for the gun theory, the title of this thread may well have been different if guns were involved. IMHO carrying a gun (visible or not) just invites more force against you.

Louddog, your theory may appear wacky but there may well be some truth in it although I doubt all muggers are idiots.

Again, thanks for your thoughts :)
10/16/2004 08:04:48 AM · #32
Originally posted by dagaleaa:
I know how you feel....my son (age 23) was a victim of road rage recently...the man got out of his car at a red light and tried to pull my son out of his truck window. My son got away from him, and he followed my son to his job and tried to attack him again. The man had his child and mother in the car with him too!! My son's boss protected my son and the police were called to handle the situation.


To be a victim of road rage don't you have to do something to another driver first which is the cause of road rage??? I suffer from road rage from all the poor drivers on the road today and it makes me laugh when people try to put the blame on the person that got angry for whatever reason. Not forgiving/condoning violence but when it happens you really should ask yourself was it preventable? As for youth violence I put it back to the music industry.
 10/16/2004 10:04:06 AM · #33
Originally posted by notonline:
Originally posted by dagaleaa:
I know how you feel....my son (age 23) was a victim of road rage recently...the man got out of his car at a red light and tried to pull my son out of his truck window. My son got away from him, and he followed my son to his job and tried to attack him again. The man had his child and mother in the car with him too!! My son's boss protected my son and the police were called to handle the situation.


To be a victim of road rage don't you have to do something to another driver first which is the cause of road rage??? I suffer from road rage from all the poor drivers on the road today and it makes me laugh when people try to put the blame on the person that got angry for whatever reason. Not forgiving/condoning violence but when it happens you really should ask yourself was it preventable? As for youth violence I put it back to the music industry.


Here we go again, blame the victim. You think it's funny and perfectly justified that some irrational creep tried to pull somebody out of his truck at a red light? If you can't keep your temper under control when behind the wheel then you should not be driving. It is people like you who make our streets and highways such dangerous places.
 10/16/2004 10:11:04 AM · #34
I am so sorry! I hope they are recovering from their physical injuries, but I know their psyche will also need repair!
My friend was jumped 3 years ago, and almost needed an arm amputated because of the attack! They were able to save her arm, but it is not as it was. She lost her job and her feeling of well-being with it.
The problem is the criminals don't face enough penalty.
10/16/2004 10:14:42 AM · #35
Originally posted by frychikn:
Originally posted by notonline:
Originally posted by dagaleaa:
I know how you feel....my son (age 23) was a victim of road rage recently...the man got out of his car at a red light and tried to pull my son out of his truck window. My son got away from him, and he followed my son to his job and tried to attack him again. The man had his child and mother in the car with him too!! My son's boss protected my son and the police were called to handle the situation.


To be a victim of road rage don't you have to do something to another driver first which is the cause of road rage??? I suffer from road rage from all the poor drivers on the road today and it makes me laugh when people try to put the blame on the person that got angry for whatever reason. Not forgiving/condoning violence but when it happens you really should ask yourself was it preventable? As for youth violence I put it back to the music industry.


Here we go again, blame the victim. You think it's funny and perfectly justified that some irrational creep tried to pull somebody out of his truck at a red light? If you can't keep your temper under control when behind the wheel then you should not be driving. It is people like you who make our streets and highways such dangerous places.


No. You don't have to do something to someone. My friend was road raged for being at the wrong place at the right time. As frychikn said, people are irrational. They allow the stress in their own lives to take hold of them. They need anger management therapy and their licences removed. People think they have to be first, so if a car pulls out with plenty of room, they zoom up faster to intimidate them. If everyone just waited their turn, they would still get to their destination.. and safely. Too many people have died because of stupidity such as this.
I find this remark to be akin to "don't you deserve rape because you are wearing a halter top"...the short answer "NO!"
10/16/2004 12:40:24 PM · #36
Originally posted by frychikn:
Originally posted by notonline:
Originally posted by dagaleaa:
I know how you feel....my son (age 23) was a victim of road rage recently...the man got out of his car at a red light and tried to pull my son out of his truck window. My son got away from him, and he followed my son to his job and tried to attack him again. The man had his child and mother in the car with him too!! My son's boss protected my son and the police were called to handle the situation.


To be a victim of road rage don't you have to do something to another driver first which is the cause of road rage??? I suffer from road rage from all the poor drivers on the road today and it makes me laugh when people try to put the blame on the person that got angry for whatever reason. Not forgiving/condoning violence but when it happens you really should ask yourself was it preventable? As for youth violence I put it back to the music industry.


Here we go again, blame the victim. You think it's funny and perfectly justified that some irrational creep tried to pull somebody out of his truck at a red light? If you can't keep your temper under control when behind the wheel then you should not be driving. It is people like you who make our streets and highways such dangerous places.


I blame the victim of road rage because I am constantly being told I am tailgating when I am not. I'm 20ft behind someone and they panic because all they see is a grill from a big truck. I also get cut off a lot and find that people drive to slow in the fast lane. Yes it IS the victims fault some times but unlike myself people will not admit when they are wrong. In this thread tho it was about youth violence not road rage, all I was saying was people that USUALLY become vitims of road rage are at fault usually because they don't know what they did wrong.
 10/16/2004 01:05:05 PM · #37
Originally posted by notonline:
I'm 20ft behind someone and they panic because all they see is a grill from a big truck.


If your travelling at 20mph you may just stop if you are that close - depending on the conditions and surroundings I'd likely consider a large vehicle just 20 feet from me intimidating at most speeds.

Message edited by author 2004-10-16 13:20:25.
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