Frames is kinda unique isn't it?

12/11/2015 12:13:01 PM · #29

Originally posted by jagar:

Originally posted by FromDaRock:

Originally posted by jagar:
Ha, I wonder if site council will have the balls to DQ those images that don't use a frame that would be used to frame art or a mirror.
I reckon if one makes such a pathetically stupid rule, you should go all the way, if not you might all be turned into toads and they will be no kisses from me.

I was wondering about that one too. The way it's worded is somewhat ambiguous. There are other physical frames that are used to hold, support or decorate things as well, similar to mirrors and artwork. It doesn't outright say it has to be one of these two, but it could be interpreted that way.

How else could you interpret this: "You must prominently feature at least one actual, physical frame (such as would be used to frame art or a mirror) in your composition. Failure to do so is grounds for DQ."

I read "such as" as equivalent to "for example ", not,"must be ", which I think many are interpreting it as if my score is any indication.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM

12/11/2015 12:13:50 PM · #30

Originally posted by GeorgesBogaert:

I don't think it was that difficult to put a real frame in your picture.
Why so many entries without ????
I just don't get it.

I only saw 3.

Tiny

Apple iPad mini 4

12/11/2015 12:27:23 PM · #31

I still see 5, but I do have super powers.

Lydia

Canon EOS-6D

12/11/2015 12:40:50 PM · #32

I only see four.

insteps

Ricoh GR III

Fujifilm XF 16mm f/1.4 R WR

12/11/2015 12:55:37 PM · #33

Don't worry how many. SC will take care of that. Enjoy the creative work and vote on the image.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/11/2015 01:29:57 PM · #34

Originally posted by insteps:

Don't worry how many. SC will take care of that. Enjoy the creative work and vote on the image.

Remember to vote as if each photo is LEGAL.

Lydia

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM

12/11/2015 01:32:57 PM · #35

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by insteps:
Don't worry how many. SC will take care of that. Enjoy the creative work and vote on the image.

Remember to vote as if each photo is LEGAL.

12/11/2015 07:05:00 PM · #36

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by insteps:
Don't worry how many. SC will take care of that. Enjoy the creative work and vote on the image.

Remember to vote as if each photo is LEGAL.

+100!!

Sure doesn't look like that is what is happening.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G

12/11/2015 07:08:46 PM · #37

Originally posted by Sisto:

I think I will not vote at this turn; not a controversy but not having understood well the theme I would not go wrong judgment

You are supposed to vote as if every image is valid, since DNMC = DQ in this challenge, the voters should NOT be scoring low due to a perceived DQ since that is up to the SC to decide. So like I said in my original post, vote like it's a Free Study, i.e. ignore the challenge description and simply vote what you think the photo is worth and let the SC determine if it meets the challenge.

Message edited by author 2015-12-11 19:18:56.

nygold

Nikon D5000

12/11/2015 09:52:49 PM · #38

Part of voting is how well the image meets the challenge.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

12/11/2015 09:56:58 PM · #39

Originally posted by FromDaRock:

Originally posted by Sisto:
I think I will not vote at this turn; not a controversy but not having understood well the theme I would not go wrong judgment

You are supposed to vote as if every image is valid, since DNMC = DQ in this challenge, the voters should NOT be scoring low due to a perceived DQ since that is up to the SC to decide. So like I said in my original post, vote like it's a Free Study, i.e. ignore the challenge description and simply vote what you think the photo is worth and let the SC determine if it meets the challenge.

That's really not right, though. The voting guidelines say you should bear the challenge topic/description in mind when you are voting, so it's understandable that many will be voting down the "no frame" images, and it really has nothing to do with their "legality". That vote-as-if-legal clause is more designed to discourage voters assuming an image was PROCESSED illegally and voting it down, when the poor photographer had actually found a brilliant (and legal) work-around.

12/12/2015 08:11:11 AM · #40

Originally posted by nygold:

Part of voting is how well the image meets the challenge.

This is very true under typical challenges, but since there is an extra rule which states that any image that doesn't meet the challenge will be DQ'ed, I will simply be voting all images as if they meet the challenge. I am leaving that part of the decision to SC, instead of having two parties separately decide whether an image is a DNMC/DQ. I don't expect everyone to follow this method, but I think it is more fair to the photographers this way.

Voigtlander Ultron 35mm f/1.7 Aspherical MF Wide Angle - Black

12/12/2015 08:47:20 AM · #41

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by FromDaRock:

Originally posted by Sisto:
I think I will not vote at this turn; not a controversy but not having understood well the theme I would not go wrong judgment

You are supposed to vote as if every image is valid, since DNMC = DQ in this challenge, the voters should NOT be scoring low due to a perceived DQ since that is up to the SC to decide. So like I said in my original post, vote like it's a Free Study, i.e. ignore the challenge description and simply vote what you think the photo is worth and let the SC determine if it meets the challenge.

That's really not right, though. The voting guidelines say you should bear the challenge topic/description in mind when you are voting, so it's understandable that many will be voting down the "no frame" images, and it really has nothing to do with their "legality". That vote-as-if-legal clause is more designed to discourage voters assuming an image was PROCESSED illegally and voting it down, when the poor photographer had actually found a brilliant (and legal) work-around.

I get it, I understand how that clause is typically applied, but let me explain my viewpoint.

Editing rules, timeline requirement, challenge titles and descriptions and special flags are all simply restrictions on the image you can produce. Each one adds a some level of restriction to the final product (or in the case of a Free Study, completely removes that restriction). In a typical challenge, the voter only gets to determine whether the restrictions of title and description have been met, all else is decided by the SC. In this challenge though, my view is that the special flag basically overrides the voters normal 'job' in determining whether those restrictions have been met, and places them in the hands of the SC. With that decision taken out of the voters hand, they are effectively voting as if it is a Free Study, just score it based on how much you think the image is worth.

So from my viewpoint, whether it is 'meant' to apply to processing is somewhat irrelevant (the clause also applies if I think the image was taken outside of the timeline). I view that clause as simply applying to the restrictions put in place in the challenge that are meant for the SC to determine. I am pretty sure that if I voted down in the f/8 because I thought the image wasn't shot at f/8, that would be considered violating that clause, as it isn't up to me, the voter, to determine if that was the case.

Tiny

Apple iPad mini 4

12/12/2015 09:26:34 AM · #42

You need to get out and take some snaps.

Paul

Leica SL

12/12/2015 11:25:10 AM · #43

One of the things I like about DPC is that it's about people as much as it is about photography. In that spirit it's managed by its members, the SC, so that we can allow the human touch (and discretion) to permeate through the application of rules if needed.

Because of that human factor, sometimes things go a bit awry. We, as SC, took the decision to put the Frames challenge in the queue (for Langdon to select from) as initially posted in the forum (complete with flag). We kinda wish we hadn't though.....

However, it's not the end of the world and we'll just need to make the best of it. Sorry about that.

Here's what will happen:

1. The flag stays - we figure to remove it now would be like move the goalposts during a game. The challenge is the challenge; others who didn't enter might contend the flag put them off and others who did shoot could say they would have approached the challenge differently without the flag.

2. DQs will happen where physical frames are not present in the scene. That is one of the parameters of the rules for this challenge

3. We will be liberal as to what we consider constitutes a physical frame; we take the examples given in the challenge description to be just that - (non-exclusive) examples

4. Anybody finding themselves subject to a DQ for this challenge will not incur any penalty - i.e. it won't count towards the 25 challenge rule

Thanks for the forum posts on this challenge - such discourse really does help us think about things and try to do better.

Cheers

Paul

On behalf of Site Council

insteps

Ricoh GR III

Fujifilm XF 16mm f/1.4 R WR

12/12/2015 11:31:13 AM · #44

I highly recommend continuing this conversation after the challenge has ended. It's a healthy discussion but interpretation of a challenge shouldn't be discussed while voting is in progress.

Elaine

Canon EOS R5

12/12/2015 12:01:09 PM · #45

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by insteps:
Don't worry how many. SC will take care of that. Enjoy the creative work and vote on the image.

Remember to vote as if each photo is LEGAL.

I voted as if each was DNMC...

Elaine

Canon EOS R5