CNN correspondant saved by a legal gun.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

07/22/2015 09:16:07 AM · #276

I do seem to remember that he was acquitted. They did not have sufficient evidence to lock the man up.

blindjustice

Canon EOS-7D

07/22/2015 09:26:46 AM · #277

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

I do seem to remember that he was acquitted. They did not have sufficient evidence to lock the man up.

They didnt lock up OJ either. Calling the victim of vigilante or police violence a thug is a technique used often by racist groups. It is very similar to calling someone who commits a mass murder with a fire arm "crazy." Its not the gun, its the mental illness... which is silly, because if you dont give the mentally ill guns, you dont get mass murders.

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people." Ha! But if i stand there pointing my arm at you, pulling an imaginary trigger, nothing happens. Put a loaded gun in my hand... your dead.

07/22/2015 09:30:03 AM · #278

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

I do seem to remember that he was acquitted. They did not have sufficient evidence to lock the man up.

that just means they couldn't prove he did it in a court of law, it doesn't prove whether what he did was justifiable or acceptable to the rest of society.

Message edited by author 2015-07-22 09:31:00.

07/22/2015 09:30:06 AM · #279

Originally posted by blindjustice:

But if i stand there pointing my arm at you, pulling an imaginary trigger, nothing happens. Put a loaded gun in my hand... your dead.

If you were in school you could be suspended for that

07/22/2015 09:32:00 AM · #280

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Originally posted by blindjustice:
But if i stand there pointing my arm at you, pulling an imaginary trigger, nothing happens. Put a loaded gun in my hand... your dead.

If you were in school you could be suspended for that

still, nobody dies.

07/22/2015 09:50:20 AM · #281

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
I agree that Trayvon more than likely caused the situation to spiral out of control.

You don't think it was Zimmerman following Martin after BEING TOLD BY THE POLICE not to do so which "escalated" the situation? The confrontaion never would have happened except for Zimmerman's armed vigilantism ...

\

I don't recall that. Last I checked the police said "You don't have to do that".. Which is significantly different than "DO NOT do that".

But overall, I agree that he had a hand in the escalation, which is why I keep referring to him as a jackwagon.

07/22/2015 09:53:04 AM · #282

Originally posted by blindjustice:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
I do seem to remember that he was acquitted. They did not have sufficient evidence to lock the man up.

They didnt lock up OJ either. Calling the victim of vigilante or police violence a thug is a technique used often by racist groups. It is very similar to calling someone who commits a mass murder with a fire arm "crazy." Its not the gun, its the mental illness... which is silly, because if you dont give the mentally ill guns, you dont get mass murders.

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people." Ha! But if i stand there pointing my arm at you, pulling an imaginary trigger, nothing happens. Put a loaded gun in my hand... your dead.

Make overt "I'm going to kill you" motions at me and you might be surprised what a human without a gun can do. ;-)

Joking of course, but in all reality, don't discount what a person can do without any 'deadly' arms whatsoever.

Message edited by author 2015-07-22 09:53:53.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

07/22/2015 10:43:57 AM · #283

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Mike:
huh, that seemed to work for George Zimmerman, nevermind, he was just standing his ground.

Actually, he was bleeding his ground.. You know, because Trayvon was bashing his head into the sidewalk..

Of course, that doesn't fit your narrative does it?

I thought standing your ground involved standing, as in remaining in one place without moving your feet, as opposed to say following a person several blocks, chasing after him when Martin tried to sprint away from the strange man following him, and then fatally confronting him, after being told by the police not to do follow him. We all seem to write our own narratives and select the facts that we choose to ignore.
You do know that had Martin been armed, he would have been justified in killing Zimmerman under the same defense that Zimmerman used to kill Martin, don't you?

Last I checked simply following someone isn't considered sufficient provocation.

Someone following you with a gun isn't?

Not if it is holstered... which I believe was the case in this instance. The gun only came out during the altercation.

Ray

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

07/22/2015 06:43:20 PM · #284

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Cory:
And I'm equally certain that Zimmerman is a total asshat.

But still should have been allowed to have a gun ... :-(

You would be happier if he was dead? The trajectory of events that night were going such that one of the two were going to die, the fact is that I'd prefer the one who was being a creepy ass cracker survive instead of the one being a violent ass thug. In my world he who throws the first blow is the person at fault.

Some one was going to die that night because someone had a gun. In 2012 there were 5,802,980 simple assault cases filed with the police in the USA. I would guess that fewer than half of all fist fights get reported to the police, but lets stick with the 5 million reported cases. In 2011 728 people where killed by "Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.) and all of those were charged as aggravated assault of which there were 1,211,820 charges in 2012.

I know its a lot of numbers to chew through but basically if two people attack each other with fists and feet someone will die in 0.02133 % of the fights. If they had punched it out, we never would have heard of either of these guys. But once one guy is armed the minute a confrontation turns physical, the armed guy is in fear of his life, so he shoots to avoid a 0.021% chance of being killed.

Message edited by author 2015-07-22 19:19:49.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/22/2015 06:59:45 PM · #285

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Cory:
And I'm equally certain that Zimmerman is a total asshat.

But still should have been allowed to have a gun ... :-(

You would be happier if he was dead? The trajectory of events that night were going such that one of the two were going to die, the fact is that I'd prefer the one who was being a creepy ass cracker survive instead of the one being a violent ass thug. In my world he who throws the first blow is the person at fault.

You'd really prefer the paranoid racist egotist survive than a kid who just went out from his dad's house to buy some candy, and had no interest or intent of ever meeting this guy? Martin was confronted by a(n armed) stranger on or near his own property -- why doesn't he have the right to use lethal force to stand HIS ground? I think Zimmerman, who initiated the entire event, set the trajectory of events and "threw the first blow", even if only metaphorically ...

bohemka

Nikon D700

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

07/22/2015 07:25:39 PM · #286

A rather ugly side to gun culture in the US is that people end up in conversations over who deserved to live. The concept that some lives are worth more than others. Lives lost over spare change, insults, simply being at the wrong place at the wrong time. But let's continue the black and white thinking that maturing and evolving as a society and making better decisions about how we can better coexist really only means our freedoms are being stripped, which is of course unacceptable on all levels. Justifiable homicide â�� could there be a greater oxymoron?

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/22/2015 07:49:25 PM · #287

Interesting detail from the FBI today: apparently the Chattanooga gunman was fired upon by an armed serviceman right from the start, and two of the soldiers killed were also armed. So much for defensive use and the notion that these guys target no-gun zones.

Ann

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

07/22/2015 08:03:09 PM · #288

In today's news.

Last month.

Also last month.

Earlier in June.

A couple of days before that.

The same day.

A couple of days earlier.

You guys are arguing about abstract concepts while children are dying for your abstract ideas. A certain percentage of guns will always get used. A lot of the time, they'll get used for the wrong things.

Luciemac

Nikon D5600

07/23/2015 07:57:55 AM · #289

Originally posted by Ann:

You guys are arguing about abstract concepts while children are dying for your abstract ideas. A certain percentage of guns will always get used. A lot of the time, they'll get used for the wrong things.

No kidding! ANYTHING but the reality of being the most blood-drenched country on the planet.....and likin' it that way.

07/23/2015 08:23:40 AM · #290

Originally posted by bohemka:

spot on.

Sony Sonnar FE 2.8 35mm ZA

07/23/2015 08:34:42 AM · #291

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by bohemka:
A rather ugly side to gun culture in the US is that people end up in conversations over who deserved to live. The concept that some lives are worth more than others. Lives lost over spare change, insults, simply being at the wrong place at the wrong time. But let's continue the black and white thinking that maturing and evolving as a society and making better decisions about how we can better coexist really only means our freedoms are being stripped, which is of course unacceptable on all levels. Justifiable homicide â�� could there be a greater oxymoron?

spot on.

The level of stupid here is amazing guys.

Completely Hyperbolic Scenario - I have broken into your house, raped your daughter, and have her and your wife tied up. I am armed, and clearly on drugs. I have a knife, and killed your son who tried to stop me while I was raping your daughter.

You've just walked in the door, and although the initial shock of seeing your dead son has momentarily startled you into non-action, now you have become aware of me, and can see that I'm approaching you with the knife that I used to kill your son only minutes ago.

What do you do?

jagar

Samsung Galaxy S9/S9+

07/23/2015 08:48:47 AM · #292

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by bohemka:
A rather ugly side to gun culture in the US is that people end up in conversations over who deserved to live. The concept that some lives are worth more than others. Lives lost over spare change, insults, simply being at the wrong place at the wrong time. But let's continue the black and white thinking that maturing and evolving as a society and making better decisions about how we can better coexist really only means our freedoms are being stripped, which is of course unacceptable on all levels. Justifiable homicide â�� could there be a greater oxymoron?

spot on.

The level of stupid here is amazing guys.

Completely Hyperbolic Scenario - I have broken into your house, raped your daughter, and have her and your wife tied up. I am armed, and clearly on drugs. I have a knife, and killed your son who tried to stop me while I was raping your daughter.

You've just walked in the door, and although the initial shock of seeing your dead son has momentarily startled you into non-action, now you have become aware of me, and can see that I'm approaching you with the knife that I used to kill your son only minutes ago.

What do you do?

Change the channel.

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

07/23/2015 08:54:41 AM · #293

The way I see it....There are three types of people in the world. The "villain", the "Victim", and the "hero". It is really quite simple. I don't think that we have any villains in this thread so that leaves us with the other two. At some point in your life you have to ask yourself, are you ready to be a victim....or do you want to stand against the villain and be a hero.

Being the hero could be protecting yourself, your family, your property, or a complete stranger. Also a victim can become a hero. Here is an example that has unfortunately happened too much.

Man beats wife....puts her in the hospital....she gets a restraining order....man beats wife again and goes to jail.....Man gets out of jail, goes to wifes house to teach her a lesson....Wife shoots and kills husband.

Now in that scenario the wife is an absolute hero!!! So ask yourself are you a Victim or a hero...

bohemka

Nikon D700

07/23/2015 08:57:10 AM · #294

I blame Steven Seagal.

07/23/2015 09:17:55 AM · #295

Originally posted by bohemka:

I blame Steven Seagal.

Blame whoever you want, but the fact remains that the belief that there is no situation that justifies killing someone is only held by the most innocent and the most ignorant.

07/23/2015 09:23:13 AM · #296

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by bohemka:
I blame Steven Seagal.

Blame whoever you want, but the fact remains that the belief that there is no situation that justifies killing someone is only held by the most innocent and the most ignorant.

you forgot naive

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

07/23/2015 09:44:10 AM · #297

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by bohemka:
I blame Steven Seagal.

Blame whoever you want, but the fact remains that the belief that there is no situation that justifies killing someone is only held by the most innocent and the most ignorant.

you forgot naive

It screwed up the alliteration.

tate

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

07/23/2015 10:11:17 AM · #298

Under what category is the gun owner who's toddler shoots his sister with his gun?
What about the person who's gun discharges accidentally and hits an innocent victim?
What about the previously mentioned Zimmerman? Hero?
What about people openly carrying automatic rifles into Target? ... I suppose that is heroic?
Or the cop that shoots someone who is running away?

Quite simple?

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

The way I see it....There are three types of people in the world. The "villain", the "Victim", and the "hero". It is really quite simple.

tate

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

07/23/2015 10:26:10 AM · #299

So you're sayin' there's a chance!? ;P
Great point BTW.

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

I know its a lot of numbers to chew through but basically if two people attack each other with fists and feet someone will die in 0.02133 % of the fights. If they had punched it out, we never would have heard of either of these guys. But once one guy is armed the minute a confrontation turns physical, the armed guy is in fear of his life, so he shoots to avoid a 0.021% chance of being killed.