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04/01/2015 08:20:16 PM · #26 |
Here's a blast from the past on voting styles
Voting Styles and their effect
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04/01/2015 09:25:14 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by FromDaRock:
... I comment when I have the time, but I find it difficult to leave more than a few comments per challenge very often... |
If you received say 100 comments in a challenge, would you have time to read only a few of them? |
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04/01/2015 09:52:03 PM · #28 |
Throw out the lower scores, I am comfy in the last spot :-D
8-% of the time I truly think and believe someone knows exactly why their photo didn't make it one way or another, but its that step of how to make it better and improve and its the techy comments that is so desperately needed of how can that photo improve. over half of my portfolio photos was just plain wrong setting in the wrong situation lighting. My poor TPL team who had to work with me should get an award just by that alone and after 300 shots just for one challenge (exaggeration) I can then finally get it right in the camera.
The issue seems to be in my thoughts when people are attached to their image or photo and they think it deserves anything over a 6 and they get hit with the 1,2,3.. I think others are just out for likes and virtual love hugging and ego boosts. That is where you will find the disgruntle and arguments against something. If an image truly deserves a 1. It is pretty clear that you were not the only one giving out the lower scores and it should be consistent with the other voters
I know anyone can cruise through my portfolio and tear it apart because of the blurryness of photos, the composition wasn't right something always techy was totally wrong somehow some way.
Comments would be nice but it never or rarely happens. I especially like the after challenge comments, which I appreciate more, of why something wasn't right in their eyes. that is cool!
People have all different tastes and the photography is soo different than what I like or find attractive or even consider photography, some are more into the blurry abstract kind to where I can't even tell what the heck something is because of the same colors. Do they deserve a 1 just because I am color blind and can't really see what it is supposed to be? I think not. Alot of those times, its those photos that are in the top 20.. On my voting, the lowest I give is a 4 and that to me is the dmnc. I am not one who coddles. I love the straight forward hit it to me with your best shot and I don't care about political correctness nor being tact.
I check and read all of my comments that are given and I make sure I mark that as being helpful too because I think its really important its my way of saying, I acknowledge your time in taking your few minutes out of your life to help make my photography better. To me that means a lot.
1.2.3 voting ? sure! I am good with that esp. if my photo completely fails to meet the challenge. What people hate here, that same photo is completely loved on other sites like facebook.
Message edited by author 2015-04-01 22:26:58. |
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04/01/2015 10:50:28 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Originally posted by FromDaRock:
... I comment when I have the time, but I find it difficult to leave more than a few comments per challenge very often... |
If you received say 100 comments in a challenge, would you have time to read only a few of them? |
Couldn't say, as I don't think I have ever gotten more than 3 or 4, 100 is beyond my ability to comprehend. |
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04/01/2015 11:56:34 PM · #30 |
| I use the whole scale. I just don't think 1's or 10's are justified very often. I rarely give either of them. Only if an image is blatantly poor or very exceptional. I tend to mostly stay between 4-7 though. I guess I should be utilizing the 2 3 8 & 9 buttons more. It wouldn't change my voting average, but it might make a few people mad. I don't really want to discourage anyone from doing photography I don't think it would help anyone. I think just trying to get from a 5 to a 6 is hard enough. So I think I will keep my voting system how it is and save my 8, 9's and 10's for the really great photos and my 1,2's and 3's for the really crappy ones and then everyone else just gets a average or slightly above average. |
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04/02/2015 02:08:18 AM · #31 |
I've got 3 photos in voting two are good photos spent hours getting to them with lots of gear hours editing them and they're being well received on the likes of 500px, my other one is a iphone snap edited on iPhone and uploaded all in all in under 30 seconds from start to finish. It's a nothing shot yet it's only .5 under the good shots!
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04/02/2015 02:26:02 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by Giles:
I've got 3 photos in voting two are good photos spent hours getting to them with lots of gear hours editing them and they're being well received on the likes of 500px, my other one is a iphone snap edited on iPhone and uploaded all in all in under 30 seconds from start to finish. It's a nothing shot yet it's only .5 under the good shots! |
Giles most photo exhibitions don't have a photo that would score well here, don't feel judged it's mostly about shooting neutral and being popular.
I hardly ever give a 1, I do use the whole scale but I must admit I'm guilty for staying mainly in the middle territory, I'll try and use the whole scale more. |
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04/02/2015 07:38:57 AM · #33 |
John I don't mind being judged I have no pretensions of grandeur etc I'm just a competent photographer with a wide taste that's evolving all the time, 4 years on here I've learnt a lot, I miss the heady days of 200 entries and the amazing selection of good pictures that'd bring. Now the overall quality does seem lower and that's reflected in everyone's votes. the 5 voting does annoy me, if it's no good vote that way don't vote 5 on an image you really thinks a 2 as that 5 then devalues your 8-9 say.
I'm a member of a few photo groups on facebook and I comment like I would on here and it doesn't go down well, get replies to constructive comments like 'well it got 30 likes' or who asked you etc people are far to precious and to unwilling accept criticism can think of one particular user on here.
I know its all subjective but sometime you need to call a spade a spade
My clamp clips etc photo is a 4.2 at best only submitted to see if you could do it from a phone |
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04/02/2015 08:13:32 AM · #34 |
If it's comments you want so you can learn then you can always post your image in the forum and ask for a critique.
You will get a dozen replies in not time flat.
How do we know that it isn't the people with the high scores in the challenge giving other quality images 1's so they can ribbon. Most of the time it's not that hard to see what images are going to grace the front page.
Often the difference between the ribbons is very slim so a one can bump someone from a yellow to a red.
Just a thought.
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04/02/2015 01:26:04 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by mariuca:
It's clear that none of the people who left a low mark made a comment. I wish they did. |
In general, few people make comments on low marks, including me. So most of us could be asked to explain why this is so.
In my case, it's because I will sometimes get hassled by the person with the low score. In one case, I was publicly called out several times, and that was just for a 2. |
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04/02/2015 01:59:43 PM · #36 |
Yes, same here.
We did have last year I think one challenge in which a few of us decided to post our mark and to make a comment.
I got a few inquisitive PMs, if not plain angry. Considering that I seldom mark under 4 I was surprised.
I am not going to repeat the exercise unless someone asks me personally to critique an image.
In what concerns  jagar's photograph I thought that a few words from the people who marked it under 5 would have been interesting. |
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04/02/2015 02:48:27 PM · #37 |
If you get an "inappropriate" PM in response to a comment on a photo, please report it via the ticketing system so that it can be dealt with properly.
PMs are not (cannot be) monitored by SC, and we rely on the recipients to report TOS violations. Make it "their" problem and not yours, or everyone else's by not commenting ... |
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04/02/2015 02:53:00 PM · #38 |
| I must be really guilty of not giving too critical comments because I've never had a bad PM because of that. |
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04/02/2015 04:48:16 PM · #39 |
| Great discussion! I have read all the post and I am evaluating my voting process. I hardly ever give a 1 and I reserve a 10 for my personal best of the particular challenge. Most of my votes fall between a 4 and 7. My deal is I am learning and feel quite inadequate on judging per technique. I judge on challenge criteria, creativity and my own personal taste. I love dpchallenge. |
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04/02/2015 05:42:39 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by jayzundel:
Great discussion! I have read all the post and I am evaluating my voting process. I hardly ever give a 1 and I reserve a 10 for my personal best of the particular challenge. Most of my votes fall between a 4 and 7. My deal is I am learning and feel quite inadequate on judging per technique. I judge on challenge criteria, creativity and my own personal taste. I love dpchallenge. |
That is exactly how I vote :-) your not alone for the the hows to judge.
My personal favorites are not the ones that are always the main stream photos, some are, some are not. |
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04/02/2015 06:47:26 PM · #41 |
My long-standing feeling is that the voting scale should be expanded to 1-100. Admittedly, I am not a prolific voter, but when I do vote, I find that I often would like to have a way to differentiate more clearly, especially when the bulk of photos for me fall around the 4.5 - 6.5, with above and below less frequent. However, the current scale means that the great majority of my votes end up as 5's with no way to differentiate. Most of them wouldn't merit a straight 4 or 6 (though some do, of course).
Can you imagine, say, Olympic gymnastics or figure skating, being judged based on our 10-step scale? |
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04/02/2015 07:52:46 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by jemison:
My long-standing feeling is that the voting scale should be expanded to 1-100. Admittedly, I am not a prolific voter, but when I do vote, I find that I often would like to have a way to differentiate more clearly, especially when the bulk of photos for me fall around the 4.5 - 6.5, with above and below less frequent. However, the current scale means that the great majority of my votes end up as 5's with no way to differentiate. Most of them wouldn't merit a straight 4 or 6 (though some do, of course).
Can you imagine, say, Olympic gymnastics or figure skating, being judged based on our 10-step scale? |
+1, at the very least 20.
The Olympics would have a lot of ties! It's kind of like having, say the 100m sprint, with the time rounded to the nearest 10th of a second. |
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04/02/2015 07:59:52 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by FromDaRock:
Originally posted by jemison:
My long-standing feeling is that the voting scale should be expanded to 1-100. Admittedly, I am not a prolific voter, but when I do vote, I find that I often would like to have a way to differentiate more clearly, especially when the bulk of photos for me fall around the 4.5 - 6.5, with above and below less frequent. However, the current scale means that the great majority of my votes end up as 5's with no way to differentiate. Most of them wouldn't merit a straight 4 or 6 (though some do, of course).
Can you imagine, say, Olympic gymnastics or figure skating, being judged based on our 10-step scale? |
+1, at the very least 20.
The Olympics would have a lot of ties! It's kind of like having, say the 100m sprint, with the time rounded to the nearest 10th of a second. |
Didn't it used to be on a 10 point scale? With 2s from the East German judge?
That being said, it is too bad that we can't give an "average" score. The average on the voting scale is 5.5. So we either have to say a photo is below average (5) or above average (6). There is no average vote. |
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04/02/2015 09:14:09 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by FromDaRock:
Originally posted by jemison:
My long-standing feeling is that the voting scale should be expanded to 1-100. Admittedly, I am not a prolific voter, but when I do vote, I find that I often would like to have a way to differentiate more clearly, especially when the bulk of photos for me fall around the 4.5 - 6.5, with above and below less frequent. However, the current scale means that the great majority of my votes end up as 5's with no way to differentiate. Most of them wouldn't merit a straight 4 or 6 (though some do, of course).
Can you imagine, say, Olympic gymnastics or figure skating, being judged based on our 10-step scale? |
+1, at the very least 20.
The Olympics would have a lot of ties! It's kind of like having, say the 100m sprint, with the time rounded to the nearest 10th of a second. |
Didn't it used to be on a 10 point scale? With 2s from the East German judge?
That being said, it is too bad that we can't give an "average" score. The average on the voting scale is 5.5. So we either have to say a photo is below average (5) or above average (6). There is no average vote. |
I believe you are right, but even then, the event was voted on for technical, artistic impression and overall (I think), so they were voting on different aspects of the performance with each vote. The highest and lowest votes were also thrown out. |
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04/02/2015 09:37:11 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by FromDaRock:
Originally posted by jemison:
My long-standing feeling is that the voting scale should be expanded to 1-100. Admittedly, I am not a prolific voter, but when I do vote, I find that I often would like to have a way to differentiate more clearly, especially when the bulk of photos for me fall around the 4.5 - 6.5, with above and below less frequent. However, the current scale means that the great majority of my votes end up as 5's with no way to differentiate. Most of them wouldn't merit a straight 4 or 6 (though some do, of course).
Can you imagine, say, Olympic gymnastics or figure skating, being judged based on our 10-step scale? |
+1, at the very least 20.
The Olympics would have a lot of ties! It's kind of like having, say the 100m sprint, with the time rounded to the nearest 10th of a second. |
Didn't it used to be on a 10 point scale? With 2s from the East German judge?
That being said, it is too bad that we can't give an "average" score. The average on the voting scale is 5.5. So we either have to say a photo is below average (5) or above average (6). There is no average vote. |
I believe it is still on a 10 point scale...slightly different from a 10 step scale. They are free to give, say, a score of 7.95. With a 10 step scale they would be forced to give a 7 or an 8, and if there were 1 of each it would avg. to 7.5...lower than probably deserved.
Message edited by author 2015-04-02 21:40:45. |
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04/02/2015 10:43:47 PM · #46 |
Y'all be gettin' ones from me now. I'm tired of being mediocre, so I'm gonna have you all join me down there in low to mid 5-ville. Nice place, it is. Never very exciting, though.
What with only 50 votes per challenge these days, a few 1s judiciously placed here and there will really kinda sting! Let's do this! |
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04/03/2015 10:30:33 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by jayzundel:
Great discussion! I have read all the post and I am evaluating my voting process. I hardly ever give a 1 and I reserve a 10 for my personal best of the particular challenge. Most of my votes fall between a 4 and 7. My deal is I am learning and feel quite inadequate on judging per technique. I judge on challenge criteria, creativity and my own personal taste. I love dpchallenge. |
Originally posted by jgirl57:
That is exactly how I vote :-) your not alone for the the hows to judge.
My personal favorites are not the ones that are always the main stream photos, some are, some are not. |
You don't have to be Richard Avedon to know what you like. You can be moved by an image without knowing the technical details. Some of us have gotten to a point where that's exactly what we want. Don't look at my image and tell me what YOU think I need to do to "fix" it. I have been doing this for long enough that what I want is to know why you loved/hated it. The image from the standpoint of composition and technicals is exactly as I wanted it.
Now you have no way to differentiate while voting whose image is what, but if you look at a portrait and see redeye from a flash, you know you can point that out. If you see an image that you have no issues with technically, but there's something about it that just doesn't work, then explain that......or even if you don't know why, simply state that the image makes you uneasy or sad.......whatever. I'd be thrilled if someone told me an image made them feel uneasy. I tapped into an emotion for that viewer. That's what this is really all about for me.
EVERYONE is qualified to state how they feel about an image as it affects them and creates an impression.......I don't care if you've never shot an image in your life, just describe how the image you're viewing made an impression, favorably or otherwise.
Message edited by author 2015-04-03 10:33:01. |
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04/03/2015 10:44:46 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
EVERYONE is qualified to state how they feel about an image as it affects them and creates an impression.......I don't care if you've never shot an image in your life, just describe how the image you're viewing made an impression, favorably or otherwise. |
Jeb's right, as he so often is (except when he says that an MGB is a cool car). Don't bother with saying how a photo could be made better, because you'll nearly always be wrong. Instead say how the photo makes you feel; the impact that it has on you, because you will always be right. And always more helpful to the photographer too.
Take a look at this tutorial.. Best advice ever on how to evaluate and comment on a photograph. Any photograph, not just arty stuff.
Message edited by author 2015-04-03 10:45:22. |
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04/03/2015 10:56:16 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by Kroburg:
But most times the 1-giver stays cowardly anonymous. |
Cowardice has nothing to do with it. Not wanting to engage an outraged and offended photographer who believes that such a harsh judgement of their image is a judgement about them as a person is reason enough to stay anonymous. |
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04/03/2015 11:17:45 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
EVERYONE is qualified to state how they feel about an image as it affects them and creates an impression.......I don't care if you've never shot an image in your life, just describe how the image you're viewing made an impression, favorably or otherwise. |
Jeb's right, as he so often is (except when he says that an MGB is a cool car). Don't bother with saying how a photo could be made better, because you'll nearly always be wrong. Instead say how the photo makes you feel; the impact that it has on you, because you will always be right. And always more helpful to the photographer too.
Take a look at this tutorial.. Best advice ever on how to evaluate and comment on a photograph. Any photograph, not just arty stuff. |
Sorry -- have to disagree on this one. You have to realize that commenting on how a photo could be made better can be extremely helpful. I received one of these from Andrewt when I first started. I followed up and was shown a whole new world.
But mainly, it's an exercise for the user. I give feedback on how a shot could be made better, simply because it helps me look critically. It's hard to be critical of your own work, because many times you're too emotionally involved. Looking at other's work and seeing what you would change and why you would change it to make it stronger is an invaluable tool for helping you learn your own work. Yes -- you may very well be missing the point the original photographer had in mind, but you're helping frame your own eye, your own vision, your own world. That's why so many people say that they learn more by commenting than receiving comments.
That being said -- keeping everything in mind is when you learn the most. Comment on both aspects -- how it made you feel and how you would have made it better, then you'll remember all the aspects that are important in photography.
Some people scoff at the technicals. Some people ignore the emotional content. The geniuses are the ones that can do it all. And I'm not saying photos need to be technically perfect and emotional. The incredible photographers know when the technicals are important. When they need to be broken. And what needs to be said.
So don't shut down any types of comments. All types of comments are useful. They help us see how others see the world. And if you're interested in making a statement with your photography, you need to reach more than just yourself. |
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