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04/01/2015 01:47:23 PM · #1
The "1" vote (2 and 3 as well) are there for a reason. I understand why a vote of 5 has become the baseline number for average but often times 5 has become minimum vote that many people will give.

This is a problem as it only separates the images into "average" and "good". What we need is to let the submitter know when an image is bad so that they can improve.

This place needs some tough love. We need to stop coddling the sensitive people here.

Sign up below if you will join me in pledging to start utilizing the entire voting scale.
04/01/2015 02:13:22 PM · #2
My voting philosophy has evolved over the years.

These days if I can't vote 6 or above I simple do not vote on that image. But I will often comment even if I don't vote.

I am not here to give tough love and I am not here to coddle anyone.

In my book, if you have the gumption to enter, hit the challenge topic, try to connect with the viewer, you deserve at least a 6.

In the overwhelming majority of entries there is at least something of value. A vote of 1 means the image has no value whatsoever.

I don't subscribe to that voting theory.
04/01/2015 02:18:43 PM · #3
Let see some exmples of a 1,2, & 3.

You can use my portfolio I'm sure you'll find plenty of crap in there.
04/01/2015 02:23:06 PM · #4
That's ridiculous. I'll give 1s 2s and 3s if the photo sucks that badly. There are a lot of mediocre photos on this site, but there are truly very few incredibly crappy photos.
04/01/2015 02:31:58 PM · #5
I admit that I am guilty of not utilizing the lower end of the voting spectrum very often. However, I am not sure how doing so would make DPC a better place. If everyone started using ones, twos, and threes more in voting I don't think the final order of the images would change. So rather than finish in the bottom 10% with a 5, would it be better to finish in the bottom 10% with a 2.5? I think I would be more discouraged with the 2.5.

Perhaps hypocritically, I think the portion of the voting scale I personally don't use enough it the upper end. I am far too stingy with my tens, nines, and eights. I should let people know when I like their images.
04/01/2015 02:36:40 PM · #6
Giving a '1' is OK with me, when you think the image deserves a '1'. But be a man and tell the submitter of that image why you gave that '1'. Only then he/she might learn from it. But most times the 1-giver stays cowardly anonymous.
04/01/2015 02:38:00 PM · #7
I'm with Mike. maybe we will call it the Mike Club...

I use the whole scale. I feel like I vote fairly based on my own world perceptions. I will continue to do that. If people don't like it, tough, I will do it anyway.
04/01/2015 02:38:35 PM · #8
How about leave a comment, even a single word or punctuation mark, when you vote 1,2, or 3. I think that would much appreciated. Knowing who is often more telling than why.
04/01/2015 03:06:30 PM · #9
Nobody cares who gave them a 8, 9, or 10 but everyone seems to care who gave them a 1, 2, or 3.

I think people are just looking to argue.
04/01/2015 03:09:22 PM · #10
I use the whole scale but tend to stay in the 4 - 7 range. If a photo is truely awful in my opinion, and I give a 1 -3 I will always leave a comment. The photographer needs some idea of why I think the image is so bad and how they missed the mark with me. I often comment on images I rate in the 7 - 10 range because something speaks to me in the image so it is easy to give feedback. Where I fall down is in the 4 - 6 range where most of my votes fall, and those are the photographers, the "average" ones that would appreciate the feedback the most. So I am making an effort to comment on at least 25% of the images I feel are "average". Hopefully it will be appreciated by the people receiving comments.
04/01/2015 03:24:40 PM · #11
I'm not sure if lower votes will lead to better photographers. Constructive comments will though.
04/01/2015 03:37:24 PM · #12
I've given a couple of 2's and 3's in current challenges, but not many. A shot has to be really poor and snapshotty to get one of those and most of the entries here show some knowledge and effort. I tend to use a 4 for the "needs improvement" vote.

I do know there are some here who will use the 1 for simply "does not appeal to me", regardless of creativity or technical skill. That is their right to use it as they find appropriate.
04/01/2015 03:37:51 PM · #13
Originally posted by tate:

Constructive comments will (lead to better photographers) though.


Agreed, Tate. I, personally, would welcome constructive critique when someone assigns a lower score as well as an "Atta girl!" on the upper side of the scale. Sure, it takes a little longer to vote that way, but the feedback is invaluable.

Good topic, Mike.
04/01/2015 03:39:54 PM · #14
Originally posted by Kroburg:

But most times the 1-giver stays cowardly anonymous.

The flip side of that is the occasional members that have responded with a nasty comment to someone leaving an honest critique. After you get a couple of those you become gun shy for a reason. I've got a thicker skin, but not everyone does.
04/01/2015 03:51:33 PM · #15
I use the entire scale while voting, with most shots being between 4 and 7. I agree with Mike that only giving high scores is not helpful,. I vote on what I see rather than the amount of time or effort I think the shot took to create.
04/01/2015 03:56:12 PM · #16
The only 1's I've ever given were when people posted deliberately mean or obscene and I could probably count those on the fingers of one hand.
04/01/2015 04:17:04 PM · #17
I almost use the whole scale. I don't use 1s in every challenge, but I think in most challenges I will give some 2s. Anyone who understands math and wants their vote to count more would use the whole scale.
04/01/2015 05:22:29 PM · #18
I think a 1 should be given when needed but I have rarely seen where a 1 is needed IMO. Of course there are the DNMC's. It seems to me that most on this site are pretty average to great photographers or trying to be. I believe a 1 sucks, a 5 is average, and a 10 is a great photo. I usually vote midway and probably shouldn't be so stingy with my high votes. I think if you hand out a 1, 2 or 3 vote you should state why, anonymously if you want to, how else will we learn? I know I have received high scores on the same photos I have received a low score and wondered what the...? Just handing out a 1 doesn't teach me anything.
04/01/2015 06:05:16 PM · #19
i vote with the full spectrum dont comment enough but i try

was looking back the other day when i joined in 2011 how many comments i used to get on any photo in a challenge :(
04/01/2015 06:31:40 PM · #20
Just take this image (5 out of 78) in the last challenge:
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/2000-2999/2078/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1145106.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/2000-2999/2078/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1145106.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
It got mark form 1 to 10. But ponder the average:

Avg (commenters): 9.0000
Avg (participants): 6.6977
Avg (non-participants): 5.5789

It's clear that none of the people who left a low mark made a comment. I wish they did.

04/01/2015 06:38:01 PM · #21
Voting the whole spectrum seems like a professor that is determined to curve his class -- 10% A's 10's Fs and the rest in the middle somewhere. I don't fail anyone unless they deserve failing. If all of the photos are spectacular in a challenge, they'll all get high marks, if they all suck, they'll all get low marks. A photo doesn't get a 1, 2, or 3 unless they're in the dregs of photography.
04/01/2015 06:42:29 PM · #22
good point.
then it comes down to WHY someone gives a good score. The image resinates with someone - making it easy to comment while scoring high. Disliked images may fall into the "if you don'e have something nice to say ..." kinda thing.

Originally posted by mariuca:


It's clear that none of the people who left a low mark made a comment. I wish they did.


Message edited by author 2015-04-01 18:42:57.
04/01/2015 06:43:13 PM · #23
I also use the full spectrum, but the vast majority fall within the 4-6 mark. The ones are ALMOST exclusively reserved for what I think is a clear DNMC. This is really challenge dependent though, as the definition of some challenges make more room for interpretation than others, so I don't give them very often.

I don't give out many 9 and 10's, but then there aren't a lot of 2 and 3's either. I comment when I have the time, but I find it difficult to leave more than a few comments per challenge very often.

Whenever I vote, which is on about 90+% of the challenges from the last 4-5 months, I always vote on 100% of the images. I don't think it's fair to only vote on some of them, IMHO if you are going to judge a competition, then you have to judge all entries (as I said, it's my opinion). In that regard, I think the required 20% minimum number of votes is ridiculously low.
04/01/2015 07:22:11 PM · #24
So you are suggesting we police votes? Sounds condescending to the community. We are encouraged to vote, but not made to vote. If one did vote, I have faith enough in the community to believe that they could do so intelligently in the way they see fit.
04/01/2015 07:30:15 PM · #25
Originally posted by vawendy:

Voting the whole spectrum seems like a professor that is determined to curve his class -- 10% A's 10's Fs and the rest in the middle somewhere. I don't fail anyone unless they deserve failing. If all of the photos are spectacular in a challenge, they'll all get high marks, if they all suck, they'll all get low marks. A photo doesn't get a 1, 2, or 3 unless they're in the dregs of photography.


I don't think ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Mike is suggesting that you have to use the full spectrum in each challenge, only that you should use it when warranted, which you are obviously already doing.
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