DeflateGate - DPChallenge Forums

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01/23/2015 03:45:42 AM · #54

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by tanguera:
I have not been following this earth-shattering catastrophe, but doesnâ��t the ref touch the ball after every play? Wouldn't they have noticed the "issue"...?
No, you'd have to squeeze the ball to tell, and they don't do that. It was raining like crazy and the officials were almost certainly wearing gloves which would further inhibit tactile sensation.

Then the NFL needs to get them different gloves.

There are today HAZMAT gloves that will enable one to feel a pulse.

Ray

Message edited by author 2015-01-23 03:46:04.

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

01/23/2015 08:42:00 AM · #55

â��This isnâ��t ISIS,â�� Brady said. â��No oneâ��s dying.â��

bohemka

Nikon D700

01/23/2015 09:43:01 AM · #56

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by tanguera:
I have not been following this earth-shattering catastrophe, but doesnâ��t the ref touch the ball after every play? Wouldn't they have noticed the "issue"...?
No, you'd have to squeeze the ball to tell, and they don't do that. It was raining like crazy and the officials were almost certainly wearing gloves which would further inhibit tactile sensation.

Then the NFL needs to get them different gloves.

There are today HAZMAT gloves that will enable one to feel a pulse.

Ray

The balls are tested and approved before each game. There's no reason for a ref to suspect anything's wrong with them once they're in the game. The legality of the ball is assumed, and it's nothing they would notice easily, as they don't grip it to throw it more than a few yards.

Living where I do, this is a really interesting sociological spectacle. Fans, locals and news people are juggling excuses and explanations, often shifting to contradicting positions when needed.

01/23/2015 09:44:24 AM · #57

There was an opportunity for the Patriots to explain the rule infraction, humbly apologize and defuse the scandal. Small fines and penalties would have been imposed. The scandal would have departed the front page. The chance was missed. There's a chance the Patriots are using the same public relations firm used by Richard Nixon in 1972, or so it seems.
There are other parellels:
What ever happened to the spitball?
Lance Armstrong denials over the years.

The integrity of the rules and game is at stake. The Patriots didn't need to deflate the balls to win, just as Nixon didn't need the Watergate crew to win an election; Lance Armstrong didn't need PEDs to win bike races; Gaylord Perry didn't need to use vaseline on baseballs to be a good pitcher. I'm thinking the NFL will now "manage" the scandal into the post Superbowl time period. It's a shame, but it carries a precedent in other professional sports.

01/23/2015 11:32:56 AM · #58

Originally posted by hahn23:

you are assuming they knowingly broke any rules.

01/23/2015 11:37:33 AM · #59

i dont get why its a big deal, each team get to play with the balls they like. if the NFL truly cared about this why dont they all play with referee controlled balls, the fact that they can do anything they want to break them in except adjust the pressure is just weird in itself.

01/23/2015 11:53:18 AM · #60

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by hahn23:
There was an opportunity for the Patriots to explain the rule infraction, humbly apologize and defuse the scandal. Small fines and penalties would have been imposed. The scandal would have departed the front page. The chance was missed. There's a chance the Patriots are using the same public relations firm used by Richard Nixon in 1972, or so it seems.
There are other parellels:
What ever happened to the spitball?
Lance Armstrong denials over the years.

The integrity of the rules and game is at stake. The Patriots didn't need to deflate the balls to win, just as Nixon didn't need the Watergate crew to win an election; Lance Armstrong didn't need PEDs to win bike races; Gaylord Perry didn't need to use vaseline on baseballs to be a good pitcher. I'm thinking the NFL will now "manage" the scandal into the post Superbowl time period. It's a shame, but it carries a precedent in other professional sports.

you are assuming they knowingly broke any rules.

It would have been possible to try to explain the 2 psi deflation (after official check) (11 of 12 balls) with an explanation of physics. Belichick and Brady chose to deny any knowledge of the process. The NFL is still investigating, although they haven't interviewed Brady, yet. This leaves us to suspect a rogue ballboy, or someone else in the organization. A ballboy in the Patriots organization would probably not deflate a lot of footballs without the knowledge and direction of superiors.

01/23/2015 11:55:11 AM · #61

speculating what happened is one thing, saying they missed a chance to explain and apologize assumes they knew what was going on, which hasn't been confirmed.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/23/2015 03:28:20 PM · #62

Originally posted by Mike:

speculating what happened is one thing, saying they missed a chance to explain and apologize assumes they knew what was going on, which hasn't been confirmed.

NFL issues statement on Deflategate investigation
NFL Players Pile on New England Patriots Quarterback Tom Brady

The investigation is ongoing. The outcome needs to be announced before the Superbowl.

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

01/23/2015 05:56:11 PM · #63

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by bohemka:
DeflateGate just got interesting.

The widespread assumption of cheating is disappointing. Even with 11 out of 12 balls found underinflated, that doesn't necessarily mean the coach or QB knew about it or even that there was any intent (why not all 12?). It's the officials' responsibility to ensure proper equipment, and a faulty pressure gauge or honest mistake could have the same result. Seems like a distorted perception of the videotaping "scandal" (EVERY team videotaped opposing signals as a routine matter until the NFL sent out a memo asking them to stop, and the Broncos were caught still doing the same thing three years later) has led the general public to assume they're cheaters... despite the Patriots having the best record in the NFL since that incident. If they DID intentially manipulate the balls, then they should be punished accordingly, but it's a travesty to malign a team's accomplishments with assumptions of cheating when that might not be the case at all.

I bet whoever did it is in real trouble for NOT getting the 12th ball as well :-)

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

01/23/2015 07:14:30 PM · #64

Originally posted by bohemka:

Living where I do, this is a really interesting sociological spectacle. Fans, locals and news people are juggling excuses and explanations, often shifting to contradicting positions when needed.

Then perhaps what they should implement is a process that would ensure that once the balls have been tested they are controlled exclusively by the referrees.

Ray

damjanev

Nikon D3200

Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G

01/23/2015 08:05:07 PM · #65

So, one team managed to partially deflate all but one match ball during an american football match, right?
How does this benefit only one team? Aren't they all playing with the same balls?

kawesttex

Apple iPhone 11 Pro

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

01/23/2015 08:26:51 PM · #66

Every time I see this thread title I see 'Defecate'! Do I have a problem?

bohemka

Nikon D700

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

01/23/2015 08:30:59 PM · #67

Originally posted by damjanev:

So, one team managed to partially deflate all but one match ball during an american football match, right?
How does this benefit only one team? Aren't they all playing with the same balls?

For some crazy reason they each use their own balls. The quarterbacks work the leather and get the feel just right, and that's apparently just fine. But you can't mess with the air pressure.

LN13

Canon EOS-60D

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01/23/2015 08:31:00 PM · #68

Originally posted by damjanev:

So, one team managed to partially deflate all but one match ball during an american football match, right?
How does this benefit only one team? Aren't they all playing with the same balls?

No. Each team provides their own bag of balls that they use when they are on offense. Most fans didn't even know that until this occurred. It seems really dumb that the league doesn't provide and control the balls.

GeneralE

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Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/23/2015 11:03:57 PM · #69

Originally posted by LN13:

Each team provides their own bag of balls that they use when they are on offense.

I think this may be a holdover from college football, where different conferences use may use different model balls (from different manufacturers, etc.), and so in an interconference game each team us allowed to use the ball they normally do, rather than going with the home team's model, which could confer quite an advantage if the visiting team's usual ball feels significantly different.

01/24/2015 07:21:07 AM · #70

Originally posted by hahn23:

The investigation is ongoing. The outcome needs to be announced before the Superbowl.

Or else what? People wont watch the superbowl? lol.

Message edited by author 2015-01-24 07:21:36.

01/24/2015 07:23:00 AM · #71

Originally posted by bohemka:

Originally posted by damjanev:
So, one team managed to partially deflate all but one match ball during an american football match, right?
How does this benefit only one team? Aren't they all playing with the same balls?

For some crazy reason they each use their own balls. The quarterbacks work the leather and get the feel just right, and that's apparently just fine. But you can't mess with the air pressure.

Which is exactly why the outrage over this is stupid.

01/24/2015 07:25:29 AM · #72

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by LN13:
Each team provides their own bag of balls that they use when they are on offense.

I think this may be a holdover from college football, where different conferences use may use different model balls (from different manufacturers, etc.), and so in an interconference game each team us allowed to use the ball they normally do, rather than going with the home team's model, which could confer quite an advantage if the visiting team's usual ball feels significantly different.

A while back Brady and Manning ( others possibly) lobbied the league to to allow each team to use their own balls.

Message edited by author 2015-01-24 07:26:23.

"...some fans to question the legitimacy of the competitionâ�¦"

01/24/2015 08:30:35 AM · #73

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by hahn23:

The investigation is ongoing. The outcome needs to be announced before the Superbowl.

Or else what? People wont watch the superbowl? lol.