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09/26/2014 03:17:59 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by tanguera:
Then I don't understand the distinction between "street" photography and "snapshot".
I guess it's the ol' "I know it when I see it" adage... |
street photography is unplanned, at least in its ideal form. |
Isn't ALL photography "planned" on some level? I mean, any time we leave the house with a camera, we have the intent of capturing something. To me, that is "planned". That we happen upon it and don't place it there is a secondary consideration. I don't think any image is truly "unplanned". Oddly enough, the closest I can think of is using our cellphone to photograph something that is suddenly of interest.
Perhaps there is a better way to describe it than "unplanned" ...? |
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09/26/2014 03:24:27 PM · #27 |
I have no problem with Wikipedia's "snapshot" definition:
A snapshot is popularly defined as a photograph that is "shot" spontaneously and quickly, most often without artistic or journalistic intent.
While the vast majority of snapshots are be taken without artistic intent, those shots taken with artistic intent aren't, to me, disqualified from being snapshots.
I also love  ubique's description:
â€Â¦it's normally applied to a picture that's filled with joie de vivre but without the muddy footprints of a photographer tracked all over it.
A snapshot can certainly qualify as a beautiful example of photography. I would categorize any of my most loved photographs of family as snapshots.
To me, snapshots can be planned or unplanned. However, most of the snapshots I love most are unplanned candid shots that capture a moment or emotion.
What's the difference between "street photography" and "snapshots"? I think both terms are very broad and the two categories can overlap. However, I tend to think of "street photography" as shots of strangers in public places generally with artistic or journalistic intent, and "snapshots" generally as shots of people you know in public or private places. But, perhaps that's just me.
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09/26/2014 03:27:16 PM · #28 |
| No, it's not just you Mark. I buy everything you said. |
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09/26/2014 03:36:47 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by markwiley:
I would categorize any of my most loved photographs of family as snapshots. |
This I understand. Not only does the person taking the picture have an emotional connection to the people or events in it, there is also a lot of context to go with the image. In our personal pantheon of images, there are those that profoundly affect us emotionally even though they visually do not convey that information.
But what about anyone who does not have that information or connection. In the context of a challenge, how do we look at these images, vote on them? |
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09/26/2014 03:37:36 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by tanguera:
Then I don't understand the distinction between "street" photography and "snapshot".
I guess it's the ol' "I know it when I see it" adage... |
street photography is unplanned, at least in its ideal form. |
Isn't ALL photography "planned" on some level? I mean, any time we leave the house with a camera, we have the intent of capturing something. To me, that is "planned". That we happen upon it and don't place it there is a secondary consideration. I don't think any image is truly "unplanned". Oddly enough, the closest I can think of is using our cellphone to photograph something that is suddenly of interest.
Perhaps there is a better way to describe it than "unplanned" ...? |
that's just semantics. Yes, a street photographer plans to take photos that day, but each individual photo is not planned. The street photographer is deliberately looking to document something happening without him.
A snapshot might be unplanned, but that would be *in spite* of itself. It is not the nature of a snapshot to be unplanned. Most snapshots are of things, not moments. Some snapshots are of actions, which are still distinct from moments. |
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09/26/2014 03:39:33 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
Originally posted by markwiley:
I would categorize any of my most loved photographs of family as snapshots. |
This I understand. Not only does the person taking the picture have an emotional connection to the people or events in it, there is also a lot of context to go with the image. In our personal pantheon of images, there are those that profoundly affect us emotionally even though they visually do not convey that information.
But what about anyone who does not have that information or connection. In the context of a challenge, how do we look at these images, vote on them? |
I vote on every image the same way. If you want to start talking about how "meeting the challenge" should affect one's vote, that's another huge discussion. |
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09/26/2014 03:54:37 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by tanguera:
Originally posted by markwiley:
I would categorize any of my most loved photographs of family as snapshots. |
This I understand. Not only does the person taking the picture have an emotional connection to the people or events in it, there is also a lot of context to go with the image. In our personal pantheon of images, there are those that profoundly affect us emotionally even though they visually do not convey that information.
But what about anyone who does not have that information or connection. In the context of a challenge, how do we look at these images, vote on them? |
I vote on every image the same way. If you want to start talking about how "meeting the challenge" should affect one's vote, that's another huge discussion. |
No, I'm trying to understand what a "successful" snapshot would be, since it relies more on emotional content than on visual impact. And the emotional content is often limited to the person who took it. What the rest of us are left to "judge" is the "artistic/compositional/content/whatever" qualities.
I am trying to be respectful towards, and gain some understanding of, a genre that simply does not speak to me. Viewing them is akin to sitting next to someone showing me their family photo album. I can see their reaction to each image, and I acknowledge there is great value in those images to them. |
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09/26/2014 04:04:09 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by tanguera:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by tanguera:
Then I don't understand the distinction between "street" photography and "snapshot".
I guess it's the ol' "I know it when I see it" adage... |
street photography is unplanned, at least in its ideal form. |
Isn't ALL photography "planned" on some level? I mean, any time we leave the house with a camera, we have the intent of capturing something. To me, that is "planned". That we happen upon it and don't place it there is a secondary consideration. I don't think any image is truly "unplanned". Oddly enough, the closest I can think of is using our cellphone to photograph something that is suddenly of interest.
Perhaps there is a better way to describe it than "unplanned" ...? |
that's just semantics. Yes, a street photographer plans to take photos that day, but each individual photo is not planned. The street photographer is deliberately looking to document something happening without him.
A snapshot might be unplanned, but that would be *in spite* of itself. It is not the nature of a snapshot to be unplanned. Most snapshots are of things, not moments. Some snapshots are of actions, which are still distinct from moments. |
You are also using "semantics", Don. When I "set up a shoot", yes, I am planning the environment. But it is the unexpected moment that happens during the shoot which is the money shot. So, I am also document something happening without me. A moment I didn't plan nor anticipate and was just fortunate enough to raise my camera and press the shutter at the exact right moment.
Regardless, it seems the only way to "judge" a snapshot's value (for purposes of the challenge), is on its aesthetic value. So how is that different from any other challenge. All successful images provoke an "emotional" reaction. This discussion is more about the philosophy behind the snapshot, but is not helping me ascertain what makes for a "good" snapshot.
And again, I am asking this purely within the context of voting on them within a challenge. |
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09/26/2014 04:32:23 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by tanguera:
Originally posted by markwiley:
I would categorize any of my most loved photographs of family as snapshots. |
This I understand. Not only does the person taking the picture have an emotional connection to the people or events in it, there is also a lot of context to go with the image. In our personal pantheon of images, there are those that profoundly affect us emotionally even though they visually do not convey that information.
But what about anyone who does not have that information or connection. In the context of a challenge, how do we look at these images, vote on them? |
I vote on every image the same way. If you want to start talking about how "meeting the challenge" should affect one's vote, that's another huge discussion. |
No, I'm trying to understand what a "successful" snapshot would be, since it relies more on emotional content than on visual impact. And the emotional content is often limited to the person who took it. What the rest of us are left to "judge" is the "artistic/compositional/content/whatever" qualities.
I am trying to be respectful towards, and gain some understanding of, a genre that simply does not speak to me. Viewing them is akin to sitting next to someone showing me their family photo album. I can see their reaction to each image, and I acknowledge there is great value in those images to them. |
What are you talking about? You can't decide if someone else's photograph is a 'successful' snapshot. You can only judge if it's a good photograph. If you must rationalise your judgement by saying 'it's a good photograph that could plausibly have been a snapshot', then I suppose you must. But it'd be delusional. You (I mean the voter) can't authoritatively judge the emotional connection between a photograph and its author. All you can judge is the photograph as a photograph. Same as in any challenge: you can't judge the photographer's understanding of the challenge theme by how well it matches yours. It's about photography, not mind reading. |
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09/26/2014 04:41:17 PM · #35 |
Anyway, here's some snapshots by one of the most interesting of the contemporary Magnum photographers, Martin Parr.
Message edited by author 2014-09-26 16:43:02. |
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09/26/2014 05:19:48 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Originally posted by tanguera:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by tanguera:
Originally posted by markwiley:
I would categorize any of my most loved photographs of family as snapshots. |
This I understand. Not only does the person taking the picture have an emotional connection to the people or events in it, there is also a lot of context to go with the image. In our personal pantheon of images, there are those that profoundly affect us emotionally even though they visually do not convey that information.
But what about anyone who does not have that information or connection. In the context of a challenge, how do we look at these images, vote on them? |
I vote on every image the same way. If you want to start talking about how "meeting the challenge" should affect one's vote, that's another huge discussion. |
No, I'm trying to understand what a "successful" snapshot would be, since it relies more on emotional content than on visual impact. And the emotional content is often limited to the person who took it. What the rest of us are left to "judge" is the "artistic/compositional/content/whatever" qualities.
I am trying to be respectful towards, and gain some understanding of, a genre that simply does not speak to me. Viewing them is akin to sitting next to someone showing me their family photo album. I can see their reaction to each image, and I acknowledge there is great value in those images to them. |
What are you talking about? You can't decide if someone else's photograph is a 'successful' snapshot. You can only judge if it's a good photograph. If you must rationalise your judgement by saying 'it's a good photograph that could plausibly have been a snapshot', then I suppose you must. But it'd be delusional. You (I mean the voter) can't authoritatively judge the emotional connection between a photograph and its author. All you can judge is the photograph as a photograph. Same as in any challenge: you can't judge the photographer's understanding of the challenge theme by how well it matches yours. It's about photography, not mind reading. |
So basically, the prettiest picture wins... Regardless of whether or not it's a "snapshot". |
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09/27/2014 05:47:48 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
So basically, the prettiest picture wins... Regardless of whether or not it's a "snapshot". |
Yes I guess so. For me that is. I can't tell if a picture's a snapshot just by looking at it. I might sometimes be able to tell when it's not a snapshot, but not with any authority. I'd not rely on it. Anyway, I judge the destination and not the road taken.
But I think I must just shut up about this DNMC stuff; not just now, but always. It's futile arguing about it. I've never convinced any DNMC habitual user that it's just a gratuitous conceit. Or intellectual sloth. One or both.
Message edited by author 2014-09-27 06:15:04. |
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09/27/2014 07:05:40 AM · #38 |
DPC images are all about communication though aren't they? It's an interactive endeavour that is the whole cycle of: challenge interpretation - shoot - present - viewer interpretation - score. Therefore, we are successful in producing a 'snapshot' (or any 'themed' image) if we manage to convey that to our audience. 'Snapshot' is particularly challenging because the very things that might convince a viewer to regard it as such are the very things that may be seen as the antithesis of the DPC majority-received aesthetic. Personally, I believe that high depth of fields and relatively harsh and flat lighting, lack of a vignette, high sharpness and medium contrast will be contributory to meeting the implicit expectations of a viewer for such a challenge. None of that necessarily leads to an interesting photograph in and of itself, but I suspect that stepping outside of those parameters would risk compromising the (DPC) viewer interpretation of a 'snapshot'.
Message edited by author 2014-09-27 11:38:06. |
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09/27/2014 09:27:35 AM · #39 |
Snapshot have this wonderful air about them of spontaneous accuracy.
Message edited by author 2014-09-27 09:55:25. |
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09/27/2014 11:32:00 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Originally posted by tanguera:
So basically, the prettiest picture wins... Regardless of whether or not it's a "snapshot". |
Yes I guess so. For me that is. I can't tell if a picture's a snapshot just by looking at it. I might sometimes be able to tell when it's not a snapshot, but not with any authority. I'd not rely on it. Anyway, I judge the destination and not the road taken. |
Thank you. THIS has been the most helpful remark on the subject thus far.
Annie, that is a wonderful image, and yet, it was entered as "street photography". Using "spontaneous moment" as the definition just muddies things for me, as spontaneous moments exist in every setting, even as I said before, in a studio setting.
Paul, I totally agree.
Message edited by author 2014-09-27 11:32:25. |
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09/27/2014 12:15:07 PM · #41 |
| For me, snapshots are usually taken for personal reasons; loved ones, places visited, or things of interest. This is the antithesis of what DPC encourages by measuring success by popular vote. Not everybody enters challenges for acceptance but it's encouraged by the format. This thread is about the snapshot so I don't want to start a discussion on voting habits or what a successful DPC image looks like. The snapshot is often a label placed on an image that one enjoys but can't put their finger on why. It's not necessarily poorly executed photograph but it could be. All genres of photography overlap so considering something street and a snapshot can be accurate. Some say photography is a lie because we don't know anymore than what's in the image. In full context, seeing the peripherals and using all our senses, we most likely would have a completely different response. So, all we can judge is the result and not how. |
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08/10/2015 08:58:45 AM · #42 |
| ... and a bump for those wanting to look/contribute. :-) |
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08/10/2015 02:21:22 PM · #43 |
This is an example of a wonderful "snapshot" taken during a more formal photo session by one of the photographers who shoot for me taking soccer league team and individual photos.
I don't know what the story behind it is exactly, but there obviously is one! Sorry to have to link to it, but it is worth a look, IMO.
//www.mountainshadowsphoto.com/photos/i-GVW5Z55/0/XL/i-GVW5Z55-XL.jpg |
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08/10/2015 03:09:12 PM · #44 |
This would have been a great challenge for minimal editing, like originally suggested.
Message edited by author 2015-08-10 15:13:27. |
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08/10/2015 03:22:26 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by RKT:
This would have been a great challenge for minimal editing, like originally suggested. |
Took the words right out of my mouth (ok keyboard) :) |
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08/10/2015 03:27:06 PM · #46 |
I don't believe Advanced hurts it at all. Tweak some colour, straighten a little, some selective sharpening. No harm in it for these shots. I've already shot a few for this challenge, it's fine to tweak a little I think.
I wrote the challenge description (and put it in the queue) though - so blame me. |
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08/10/2015 03:30:32 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Paul:
I don't believe Advanced hurts it at all. Tweak some colour, straighten a little, some selective sharpening. No harm in it for these shots. I've already shot a few for this challenge, it's fine to tweak a little I think.
I wrote the challenge description (and put it in the queue) though - so blame me. |
I hear what your saying Paul but Advanced can do so much more. Nothing stopping somebody submitting a 10 image hdr as if done subtly voters wouldn't know. |
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08/10/2015 04:05:38 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Ecce_Signum:
Originally posted by Paul:
I don't believe Advanced hurts it at all. Tweak some colour, straighten a little, some selective sharpening. No harm in it for these shots. I've already shot a few for this challenge, it's fine to tweak a little I think.
I wrote the challenge description (and put it in the queue) though - so blame me. |
I hear what your saying Paul but Advanced can do so much more. Nothing stopping somebody submitting a 10 image hdr as if done subtly voters wouldn't know. |
Sure - I probably should've read down a bit more.
No matter the technique there is still the game of communicating 'snapshot' to the viewer. I've shot 5-6 candidates today - I expected it to be hard, but it isn't - I've just been taking photos of stuff as and when I fancied it. Quite liberating really. |
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08/10/2015 05:20:50 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Paul:
No matter the technique there is still the game of communicating 'snapshot' to the viewer. I've shot 5-6 candidates today - I expected it to be hard, but it isn't - I've just been taking photos of stuff as and when I fancied it. Quite liberating really. |
There ya go :-) Everyone just stop worrying and have some FUN! |
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