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 09/22/2004 02:40:13 PM · #1
This is a different thread because it's not about the vote, it's about the comments. My shot for the Stopped Motion II channenge is doing rather poorly (not that it's the greatest shot in the world and I didn't expect a GREAT score). My concern is with comments. When I vote, I try to comment on why I gave a certian score (especially if it's low). I've had 148 votes on my submission and zero comments! It would be nice if people commented more. I comment on about 50% of my votes. I also think it should be REQUIRED to comment on 1's, 2's, and 10's. What say ye?
 09/22/2004 03:00:50 PM · #2
I think required comments on 1,2,3 would be great.
 09/22/2004 03:15:15 PM · #3
That's a good idea, Darlene. I just thought about the 10's because it's obvious that alot of people vote way too many 10's. I'm thinking a 1 means there's nothing at all right with the shot and a 10 means it's perfect in EVERY way. Both are hard to justify. I do give one 10 per challenge (usually), but that's on my favorite shot of the whole challenge.
 09/22/2004 03:21:35 PM · #4
People are lazy. The average vote statistic would go up, the quality of that vote would plummet.
 09/22/2004 03:24:32 PM · #5
Originally posted by zeuszen:
People are lazy. The average vote statistic would go up, the quality of that vote would plummet.


agreed. you can't force people to comment. if they want to do so, great, if not, live with it.
 09/22/2004 03:27:44 PM · #6
Originally posted by rayg544:
This is a different thread because it's not about the vote, it's about the comments. My shot for the Stopped Motion II channenge is doing rather poorly (not that it's the greatest shot in the world and I didn't expect a GREAT score). My concern is with comments. When I vote, I try to comment on why I gave a certian score (especially if it's low). I've had 148 votes on my submission and zero comments! It would be nice if people commented more. I comment on about 50% of my votes. I also think it should be REQUIRED to comment on 1's, 2's, and 10's. What say ye?


I say the same thing everytime this question comes up :)

Forced comments are probably going to be worthless. If your photo doesn't inspire a comment on it's own, THAT is a comment in itself... and probalby one you should take seriously :)
 09/22/2004 03:41:07 PM · #7
Originally posted by jmsetzler:


I say the same thing everytime this question comes up :)

Forced comments are probably going to be worthless. If your photo doesn't inspire a comment on it's own, THAT is a comment in itself... and probalby one you should take seriously :)


I agree with the forced comment part but don't think that 'no comment' is always a bad thing - people just don't have the time (or inclination) to vote on every single picture in a challenge and if they did they would probably be diluted.

We all like a pat on the back but I find a well constructed critical comment to be worth much more than a 'great shot' type of comment.

As for the trol voters, provided they are consistently stupid it all comes out even and a couple of votes will unlikely change anything in the grand scheme of things.
 09/22/2004 03:49:14 PM · #8
My point was the constructive comment (heavens knows I need all I can get). Of course pats on the back are nice, but how am I, or anyone else for that matter, going to get better at this if all I see is a bunch of 1's, 2's, and 3's and no reason why? I'm certainly not saying my shots deserve better. I just wish I could get some help as to what I'm doing wrong and my point is we would be helping each other out if we left comments on how to improve our work.
 09/22/2004 04:06:18 PM · #9
Originally posted by rayg544:
My point was the constructive comment (heavens knows I need all I can get). Of course pats on the back are nice, but how am I, or anyone else for that matter, going to get better at this if all I see is a bunch of 1's, 2's, and 3's and no reason why? I'm certainly not saying my shots deserve better. I just wish I could get some help as to what I'm doing wrong and my point is we would be helping each other out if we left comments on how to improve our work.


Would you find a comment like this constructive?:

"You should have found something different to photograph. Your photo and choice of subject have no appeal. There is nothing really 'wrong' with the photo other than the fact that it doesn't make me think about anything in particular and I can't connect in any way with your subject."


09/22/2004 04:08:52 PM · #10
Everyone agrees that those comments would be most helpful. It's been decided that making them compulsory would not work within the DPC structure/community.

One major problem has been that when people do make "negative" comments -- as would be expected if they vote it a 1-3 score -- they often then get personally (PM) or publicly (forums) trashed for their comments ... many people have declared that they have ceased commenting altogether, regardless of how much they like the photo, because of such negative/argumentative responses.

While many people are not able to give constructive criticism as well as we'd like, I think even fewer pwoplw are prepared to actually accept it.

9 Guidelines for giving and receiving feedback (DPC site Tutorial).
 09/22/2004 04:13:43 PM · #11
That makes sense Jim, thanks for your input.
 09/22/2004 04:17:07 PM · #12
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by rayg544:
My point was the constructive comment (heavens knows I need all I can get). Of course pats on the back are nice, but how am I, or anyone else for that matter, going to get better at this if all I see is a bunch of 1's, 2's, and 3's and no reason why? I'm certainly not saying my shots deserve better. I just wish I could get some help as to what I'm doing wrong and my point is we would be helping each other out if we left comments on how to improve our work.


Would you find a comment like this constructive?:

"You should have found something different to photograph. Your photo and choice of subject have no appeal to me. There is nothing really 'wrong' with the photo other than the fact that it doesn't make me think about anything in particular and I can't connect in any way with your subject."

Especially with the minor edit I made, I would find such a comment "constructive" if disappointing.

Actually, from you I'd have to take it as a pretty positive comment, as it would mean that the technical aspects were OK (not my strong suit right now), but that the choice of subject (the most subjective component) didn't work for you -- but then, you are not necessarily my intended audience in the first place. There are probably some situations where it would mean I'd nailed the subject perfectly : )
 09/22/2004 04:19:53 PM · #13
I think the hardest comment to write is the constructive comment on a 1, 2 or 3. From those who might be much more experienced at such things, any recommendations as to how to write them better?
 09/22/2004 04:47:39 PM · #14
Originally posted by mhoogendyk:
I think the hardest comment to write is the constructive comment on a 1, 2 or 3. From those who might be much more experienced at such things, any recommendations as to how to write them better?


Become better at recieving them. Seriously. The major reason people do not comment on low shots is that users historically do not respond well to them.

As for commmenting, try to keep as fact oriented as possible. For example, you can say things like the focus is off, the light is flat, etc. These are things that are pretty hard to argue. Be polite, cause you never know if young Issac Marcus (GeneralE's son) could be the person you are giving the comment to. We have several young phographers here. Also develop a thick skin. :)

Clara
 09/22/2004 04:52:29 PM · #15
Originally posted by mhoogendyk:
I think the hardest comment to write is the constructive comment on a 1, 2 or 3. From those who might be much more experienced at such things, any recommendations as to how to write them better?


Start by saying something positive about the image. Except for the rare case where the image is so horrible, there is certainly something that can be praised in 10 words or less. Then go into the aspects that you think failed or need improvement. Be constructive and friendly.

Dave
 09/22/2004 04:56:59 PM · #16
Originally posted by blemt:
... Be polite, cause you never know if young Issac Marcus (GeneralE's son) could be the person you are giving the comment to. We have several young phographers here. Also develop a thick skin. :)

Clara

Yeah, and now he can read, too!
 09/22/2004 06:10:47 PM · #17
Ray, Thanks for the comment you recently left on one of my submissions... you understood and liked my take on the theme and a few others didn't.
When I get a comment on a submission I appreciate the fact that another person wanted to communicate something to me regarding an aspect of the photo. Sometimes I offer the best technical opine I can muster especially a picture I vote a 3 or lower that has or had potential IMHO, other times it's my silly attempt at humor - in any event I was inspired to comment. It's not my style to 'bash' anybody so I rarely comment if I don't have anything good to say. I'm also sensitive about that which I may not understand in a submission - predicated by the comments I've received when a comment is left that does not take into consideration circumstance that may not have existed when a photo was created. I found the comments on Gabriel's 'Competion' in the Team Sports challenge very interesting... many were inspired to leave comments !
 01/16/2005 11:17:33 AM · #18
mhoogendyk

Be courteous, honest and try to explain your thoughts. I generally end each critique with, 'Just my opinions', because with art, that's what they are.

Part of the problem with mandatory comments, is that people enter the challenges for different reasons. Everyone would like to 'win', of course, but that's the only reason some peole enter. They don't want crits, they want recognition. Nothing wrong with that as long as they remain civil if they don't get it. But I think forcing comments on people who don't want to make them to people who may not want to hear them causes more problems than they solve.

I think the site has every aspect covered. People who want crits can post on a separate forum and ask for them. There's the critique club (which currently has a queue of over 200 images.) Keep the challenges and crits separate. If someone has consistently low marks on a challenge, let them post a request. "I'd like to hear from voters as to what they didn't like about this photo". Not all will reply, but enough will so the photographer gets an idea.

To me, crits should be in-depth or they don't do any good. I can't crit everything I vote on, and a 'comment' would seem insufficient.

Just my opinions. *grin*
 01/16/2005 07:27:45 PM · #19
Originally posted by rayg544:
This is a different thread because it's not about the vote, it's about the comments. My shot for the Stopped Motion II channenge is doing rather poorly (not that it's the greatest shot in the world and I didn't expect a GREAT score). My concern is with comments. When I vote, I try to comment on why I gave a certian score (especially if it's low). I've had 148 votes on my submission and zero comments! It would be nice if people commented more. I comment on about 50% of my votes. I also think it should be REQUIRED to comment on 1's, 2's, and 10's. What say ye?
Amen, I just posted and started a thread on the same subject.
 01/16/2005 07:32:41 PM · #20
who's Jim?

Originally posted by :
That makes sense Jim, thanks for your input.

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