DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register) 
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Suggestions >> Suggesting a change to the voting guidelines.
Pages:  
Showing posts 26 - 41 of 41, (reverse)
AuthorThread
 05/21/2014 08:44:17 AM · #26
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Frankly, if you're thinking this hard you're missing the point. Eye of the beholder and what not.

Vote how you feel/want to. Do it proudly, comment freely and honestly.

Like and dislike are the same as good and bad, both demand explanations as much as the other. Semantics.


I absolutely disagree. I can like or dislike something based purely on gut feeling and never be able to explain it. But if I call something "good" or call it "bad" then there's something specific I'm basing that on, even if it's simply a comparison to something else. No semantics about it.

With that said, I have no issue with the "eye of the beholder" and "vote how you feel" stuff. I really don't. I just think that it should be stated in the voting guidelines that there really are no guidelines. It may seem second nature to all of you who have been here for a while, but for anyone new who has participated in challenges like this elsewhere, there's nothing that compares to the arbitrary nature of the voting here. At least not anywhere I've been.

05/21/2014 08:53:08 AM · #27
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:


I absolutely disagree. I can like or dislike something based purely on gut feeling and never be able to explain it. But if I call something "good" or call it "bad" then there's something specific I'm basing that on, even if it's simply a comparison to something else. No semantics about it.


I agree with you here. Good photographs evoke emotion in the viewer. Not always positive emotion. There will be exceptionally good photographs that I may be repulsed by. If they make me think, they have done their job.
I am personally not one to rate photos on whether I like/dislike the content or the message. I rate on how well the photo conveys the message.
 05/21/2014 08:58:08 AM · #28
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:


Bell curves enter all statistical analyses. If they don't, then you have malfeasance or at the least harmless distortion.



Much real world data is NOT described by a bell curve. The world does not follow a Gaussian distribution.

I vote how I want...I'm not even sure there's a rhyme or a reason to it
 05/21/2014 08:58:22 AM · #29
Some vote based on technique. Some vote based on being moved by the content. Some vote based on both.

There is no right or wrong.
 05/21/2014 03:21:36 PM · #30
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:

I absolutely disagree. I can like or dislike something based purely on gut feeling and never be able to explain it. But if I call something "good" or call it "bad" then there's something specific I'm basing that on, even if it's simply a comparison to something else. No semantics about it.

With that said, I have no issue with the "eye of the beholder" and "vote how you feel" stuff. I really don't. I just think that it should be stated in the voting guidelines that there really are no guidelines. It may seem second nature to all of you who have been here for a while, but for anyone new who has participated in challenges like this elsewhere, there's nothing that compares to the arbitrary nature of the voting here. At least not anywhere I've been.


I see what you're saying about good/like, but my point is simply that it doesn't matter which you vote based on, just do it the same all the time. Neither is more or less valid, and the discussion becomes a mincing of words that often ends in frustration. I do appreciate what you're saying regarding voting being... in some ways, rather bizarro, but I think that can be attributed to the large variety of audiences and work here. At the end of the day, I would personally applaud this variety (which does appear very arbitrary) because it encourages a consideration of so many diverse approaches to the same medium. While I don't agree with them, there are members who vote any nude a 1 and other members who will downvote the majority of landscapes because they feel them to be banal, empty, and devoid of meaning. And that's fine; their rejection at such a base level still informs me.
 05/21/2014 03:51:09 PM · #31
Originally posted by GeneralE:
In 12 years of reading these threads I have yet to see someone start a thread to complain about votes of ten given to an "imperfect" image ...


05/21/2014 04:32:19 PM · #32
I think Derek's point might be that the Gaussian curve doesn't apply to MY votes, or HIS votes, or YOUR votes, but when all of us are done voting, it mostly will describe the collective results. Most (but not all) images get a curve that peaks and tapers off in two directions, and if you plot the results of all the entries. THAT will likely be a bell curve as well.

For me, there are two Holy Grails in results on my own images: I want one with all 10's, and I want one that's half 1's and half 10's, utterly polarized. Of course, that'll never happen, but the closer I get to those distributions the happier I am. The second is a much tougher goal, BTW :-)

05/21/2014 04:59:30 PM · #33
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
... I want one that's half 1's and half 10's, utterly polarized. Of course, that'll never happen, but the closer I get to those distributions the happier I am. The second is a much tougher goal, BTW :-)

I keep trying too, and I've found getting the half ones pretty easy, it's just that pesky other part ...
 05/28/2014 11:54:13 PM · #34
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I think Derek's point might be that the Gaussian curve doesn't apply to MY votes, or HIS votes, or YOUR votes, but when all of us are done voting, it mostly will describe the collective results. Most (but not all) images get a curve that peaks and tapers off in two directions, and if you plot the results of all the entries. THAT will likely be a bell curve as well.



Indeed. My votes are frequently not a pretty Gaussian curve, but mix us all up together and that is the result. There are quite a few members that vote quite a fair bit away from a Gaussian curve, but it all balances out. I would also say that I shouldn't have bristled quite to the extent that I did, backdoorhippie had no idea of the history of the discussion of voting "guidelines" so my strong response was more aimed at an idea and less him (he was just honestly hoping for clarification, which makes perfect sense).

At the end of it all, I really do see where he's coming from, but I encourage there to be no voting guidelines, leave them as open and free as possible. We've had far too many witch hunts regarding voting expectations/outcomes/results/"right way of voting" that I encourage any and all to vote exactly how they want and openly discourage any establishment of a "voting process."
 05/29/2014 12:04:06 AM · #35
Originally posted by RyanW:
[quote=GeneralE] In 12 years of reading these threads I have yet to see someone start a thread to complain about votes of ten given to an "imperfect" image ...


Well I have an image in a challenge right now, some one or two gave it some 10's, It is so MEH, IMHO, So Why give it a 10.... LOL

Thus the beauty in the eye of the beholder.... THANK you Beholders!!!
 05/29/2014 12:22:41 AM · #36
So there's some kind of rule or guideline? I didn't know.
05/29/2014 02:42:48 AM · #37
I don't care what religion you belong to - just stick to the "Golden Rule"..... do unto other as you would have them do unto you.

When it comes to DPC voting, it probably doesn't matter if you are an evil, mean, stingy, low-scoring troll, vs a kind, generous soul....... as long as you vote on 100% of submissions in a challenge, it is fair.

So do whatever you feel your conscience can live with, but do it to ALL of them instead of only punishing/rewarding a few.
 05/29/2014 07:52:50 AM · #38
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Indeed. My votes are frequently not a pretty Gaussian curve, but mix us all up together and that is the result. There are quite a few members that vote quite a fair bit away from a Gaussian curve, but it all balances out. I would also say that I shouldn't have bristled quite to the extent that I did, backdoorhippie had no idea of the history of the discussion of voting "guidelines" so my strong response was more aimed at an idea and less him (he was just honestly hoping for clarification, which makes perfect sense).

At the end of it all, I really do see where he's coming from, but I encourage there to be no voting guidelines, leave them as open and free as possible. We've had far too many witch hunts regarding voting expectations/outcomes/results/"right way of voting" that I encourage any and all to vote exactly how they want and openly discourage any establishment of a "voting process."


spiritualspatula, I'm more than cool with this, and your comments. I've adapted, which is fine, it just took some time to figure out that there's nothing to figure out. I'm perfectly comfortable with it being a pure 1-to-10 vote based on gut feel. My only (continued) request would then be to remove or change the "bad" and "good" at the end of the voting scale. "Low" and "High" would be sufficient to state the intention of the scale without implying any objective measurement criteria for the score. This would align just fine with the existing (and usually ignored, it seems) blurb about voting in the FAQ, and hopefully prevent future word-parsers like me from bringing it up again. :)
 05/29/2014 11:31:28 AM · #39
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
I'm perfectly comfortable with it being a pure 1-to-10 vote based on gut feel.


all else is anathema

Message edited by author 2014-05-29 11:32:03.
 09/03/2014 09:07:08 AM · #40
I found this discussion interesting, only because I have been thinking of my voting habits of late. Putting the discussion on statistics aside, I believe there is no way to satisfy all the members/participants with any single set of voting rules. At the end of the day, we will all vote subjectively whether we have a preference for Color vs black and white, portraits vs landscapes, abstract vs realism, etc. The only thing I try to do is be consistent, professional and courteous (yes, this implies some objectiveness). I know most everyone who enters a Challenge has put some, if not a lot, of effort into their submission, and they are putting their talent and a piece of them to the test when they expose their work for criticism. I know I do, and I invest time and effort in this community and the Challenges because I really enjoy photography and I would like to continuously learn to be better at producing appealing photos.

Rather than attempt to change the rules, maybe there could be more sharing of the process we each use to rate a photograph, which addresses the issue of consistency and coaches us newbies. So, I will take a risk and lay out my approach, of which I welcome any criticism:

1. Theme: I look at whether the photo meets the intent of the Challenge theme. [Creativity wins some extra merit]

2. Style: I look at subject, framing, orientation, perspective, etc. [I like to see how others view an object or scene and a unique approach wins some extra merit]

3. Technical: How well the photographer used his/her equipment and editing techniques to produce the final entry. [Sometimes it would be nice to see the before and after]

4. Appeal: What grabs me about the photo that makes me want to study it more, go back and look at it again, mark it a favorite, etc. [In the end, I think this is how anyone determines whether they think it is a good photograph]

What I also try to do, which I know is difficult with so many entries in some Challenges is to provide feedback (comments). I am not a professional photographer and have limited experience, so this may not mean much to many of you, but if I really like (8-10) or dislike (1-3) a photo, I feel the photographer is owed a comment why. As long as the response is professional and constructive I think it is a benefit. I know I appreciate it.

Thanks for reading this long response...
 09/03/2014 12:20:39 PM · #41
Originally posted by hiltonmd:
... we will all vote subjectively ...


And this, my friend, is why it cannot be nailed down any further. This is not a scientific analysis requiring specific and definable tolerances. It's a matter of individual taste and opinion, which can NEVER achieve accordance.

As for "low/high" vs "good/bad", I don't think most of us think of it (or even look at those words!), but I wouldn't have an objection to this change. I guess we all obsess about something ;)
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 07/23/2025 03:16:41 PM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 07/23/2025 03:16:42 PM EDT.