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09/04/2004 05:50:43 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by Imagineer:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
... I am saying that by giving the best photographers here an incentive to stick around, we as a community all benefit through continued learning. |
A couple of things: this definitely does make the assumption that ribboners are 'better' than others.
I'd also add that if those who've won ribbons really value the judgement of their peers then let only the Holy Masters vote on this challenge - it makes much more sense, since we lesser mortals will only dilute the gene pool. :D
I really do think the title Masters has to change. In my experience in advertising the golden rule is that you don't insult your audience. This has clearly happened already and, while DPC is not advertising here, it does have a paying audience. One day I may win two ribbons, but I certainly would not feel comfortable being labelled a Master and wouldn't enter this challenge unless it changed. |
To use Parliamentary dialect...I refer the right honourable gentleman to the statement I made earlier. :)
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09/04/2004 06:55:45 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by Wolfie:
What a bloody insult! Who the hell are you to call us 'RABBLE'!! |
I was explaining why I found the use of the word "master" could be found insulting to many people here, precisely because it connotates a division between classes of people; the term "rabble" is one which might be used by those who use the word "master."
I'm a committed egalitarian myself; if you think I actually called anyone rabble directly I'd request that you re-read my original post more carefully. |
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09/04/2004 07:04:58 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Wolfie:
What a bloody insult! Who the hell are you to call us 'RABBLE'!! |
I was explaining why I found the use of the word "master" could be found insulting to many people here, precisely because it connotates a division between classes of people; the term "rabble" is one which might be used by those who use the word "master."
I'm a committed egalitarian myself; if you think I actually called anyone rabble directly I'd request that you re-read my original post more carefully. |
This is just more evidence that people tend to spout off before they read stuff. |
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09/04/2004 09:40:37 PM · #79 |
This site, as I understand it, is about learning photography through a series of weekly challenges, with infrequent speed challenges and quarterly free studies tossed in. But in order to know how well a person is doing, it must be possible to compare current results with past results. The weekly (and speed) challenges do not offer this; each week stands on its own with a new subject and new requirements for a good image. Sure the subjects repeat occasionally, perhaps once a year at best, but that is no where near quick enough to be able to usefully compare past performance of any single photographer with their own current performance. This is what the quarterly free studies do. They have provided a regular, predictable chance to showcase immerging talent and developing skill. I feel once a quarter is about right, as any quicker and there would not be enough time for most of us to do any significant improving in our hobbies. However, if these free studies become irregular and unpredictable they no longer serve as a showcase of talent and ability, but of the time and resources available to the photographers.
The weekly challenges do not offer this chance to showcase ability and talent, as they are serving a quite different role. They 'challenge' us by providing topics that we would not normally look into, and as such serve the purpose of expanding horizons into new areas. Those that have "learned to shoot for challenges", as it has been said, have simply had their horizons expanded as far as the challenges are capable of expanding them. From their posts, they universally are looking for ways to beyond a lateral expansion of ability and delve deeply into some aspect of one (perhaps relatively small) area of photography that interests them. They have not 'out-grown' the idea of being challenged in their photographic endeavors, but simply have no need for their box to get any bigger than they have already expanded it. I feel (without the actual statistics to verify or debunk) that this is the reason many of those whose names were listed as masters do not compete in the weekly challenges -- however, they have been quite consistent in entering the quarterly free studies.
I certainly don't blame them for that, as I for one, and I have seen several others as well, was looking forward to the September Free Study as well. I have made concentrated efforts to improve in various areas and have learned much I did not know for the last free study. I was quite interested in seeing just how well I have learned them, and how well I could place relative to how I have placed before.
Then this Masters' Free Study enters the scene. I know, it was not intended to be a replacement for the forgotten September Free Study, but as langdon said, "we honestly just forgot to schedule it and didn't feel that it would be a good idea to run two free study challenges simultaneously."; it is the reason that oversite was not corrected. So, intentional or not, this thing has robbed the majority of the site of our chance to showcase what we have learned in a regular, predictable and comparable manner to what we were capable of previously.
As for the purpose of the Masters' Challenge; langdon said, "the idea was to just get a challenge full of awesome shots and make it really fun to vote on." So, apparently, only those whose shots are worth seeing should be showcasing their talent. You think I am taking this the wrong way, how so? These same masters were already entering the quarterly free studies, and by doing so were competing against the others on that elite list. So being excluded from that abitrary list is a slap in the face that may as well be saying that we (those not on said list) are not capable of having improved enough to take an 'awesome shot'.
Want to see how these masters fair agaisnt the other masters? That has been done in every free study so far.
Want to compare statistics on how the masters vote on other masters photos? You have several existing free studies to draw your data from.
Want to argue that the extra images upset that data? If they can't pick out the other masters' photos from the collection, it only shows how arbitrary the exclusions were.
Want me to wait and see how this 'experiment' works out before passing judgement? Tough. An experiment is an excercise with an unknown outcome, the outcome of this so-called experiment was known when it was created, as I quoted langdon above (but it bears repeating), "the idea was to just get a challenge full of awesome shots and make it really fun to vote on." That it will be a roaring success in that regard is beyond question -- but so have all the previous free studies. If you don't want to waste your time viewing our images that are not quite up to your standards, then don't go past the first few pages. But be careful -- there just might just be a few people on those pages without ribbons -- but this takes care of that little minor annoyance. :(
It has been stated before that this is no different than the championship competitions of various other activities -- but it isn't. Those competitions are begun with everyone starting at the same time and ranking and only those who are currently participating and making their skill known progress further toward the final showdown. And after the competition is over, everyone starts over at the same level again. This, with it's 'once your in, your always in' mentality, with nothing capable of reducing your status, is just elitism.
If you desire to give those who have no need of being expanded by the weekly challenges something interesting to do on this site, tailor some portion of it toward what they are desiring. An in-depth study of the various aspects of photography would accomplish this. Pick a topic and any who want to become a part of that study will have to sign up for it. Run it for a month, with the same topic. On the first week each individual submits 10 photos that utilize the topic of the study, While these are being discussed in a forum atmosphere (private for those that signed up), the participants use the comments made to create 5 more images on that will be discussed in the next week while they create 3 more. Finally on the last week, they have the 'challenge' (for lack of a better word to call it) and create one image to show what they have learned from that month long study of the subject. The subject could be technical, such as lighting or macro; or it could be more aesthetic in nature such as taking images that convey emotion or that tell a story. The participation for the entire month is demanded, and is taken into consideration before signing up; while the participation in a forum-like environment provides a greatly needed level of back and forth interaction between photographer and viewer. This (slightly expanded) suggestion was made a while back by someone (sorry, but I do not remember who), but apparently has been forgotten.
Another simple suggestion, is to have the image viewing page be made a forum thread under a special forum for portfolio comments. When an image is commented upon, those comments are in a forum were others can see and interact with them. This also further enhances the back and forth interaction between photographer and viewer that is so sorely needed here. I made this suggestion previously, but after the initial burst of 'great idea' agreements, it too has been forgotten.
Also, the idea of labeling those who are demonstrating ability is not an unacceptable one, as long as it is done on a constantly updated basis. As an example of such a system, everyone starts off as an apprentice. If, in the past six months (as an example) they have met some requirements (such as, top 10% finish in a challenge and active in voting and commenting) they obtain the status of journeyman, and then if they meet further requirements (won a ribbon plus more active voting and commenting) they can be called a master. Do what you like with those who are currently earning the titles, as long as it is not at the expense of the rest of the site, and the site will become more interesting. I personally would like to see the status under the name in the forum; apprentice, journeyman or master and an indication of how many weeks they have managed to maintain that title. The values are arbitrary, just to give an example.
The main point is that if you want to improve this site, make changes that will increase the participation of all of the members; not changes that make exclusions and limit participation.
David
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09/04/2004 09:56:51 PM · #80 |
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09/04/2004 10:00:48 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by keegbow:
Very good post David |
Thanks. I'm just glad I made myself take 24 hours to cool down before trying to post it. ;)
David
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09/04/2004 10:05:47 PM · #82 |
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so maybe this has been said before here, but ... for myself, I think it is silly (and somewhat insulting?) to have a challenge limited to only those who have two (or is it three?) or more ribbons here, and call it "Master's" challenge on top of it, and have everyone vote on it! I am not very good with words, and I can't quite put it into words why it bothers me, but it does, quite a bit. I haven't participated much here lately, and a thing like this makes me want to participate even less.
Anyway, that's that. I hope this is not way off topic in this thread, but I just wanted to say that.
Edited for spelling
Addition: BTW, I was really looking forward to a "free challenge" in September, one open to all.
Message edited by author 2004-09-04 22:08:31. |
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09/04/2004 10:12:54 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by Britannica:
... in a regular, predictable and comparable manner to what we were capable of previously. |
Despite the way langdon stated it, there is NO "Quarterly Free Study Challenge" -- and in SC discussion we explicitly decided that, while we wanted to offer them with "some frequency," we did NOT want them to be "regularly-scheduled" occurrences. While this site is geared towards educating photographers, we do not have rigid semesters where we have to submit grades for everyone by some deadline.
While your statement describes a very useful function of those Free Study challenges, the fact remains that they are an "extras" provided by the site admins at "no extra charge" when and how they feel like it, and the attitude of expectation still seems overemphasized to me. |
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09/04/2004 10:14:51 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by Britannica:
This site, as I understand it, is about learning photography through a series of weekly challenges, with infrequent speed challenges and quarterly free studies tossed in. But in order to know how well a person is doing, it must be possible to compare current results with past results. The weekly (and speed) challenges do not offer this; each week stands on its own with a new subject and new requirements for a good image. Sure the subjects repeat occasionally, perhaps once a year at best, but that is no where near quick enough to be able to usefully compare past performance of any single photographer with their own current performance. This is what the quarterly free studies do. They have provided a regular, predictable chance to showcase immerging talent and developing skill. I feel once a quarter is about right, as any quicker and there would not be enough time for most of us to do any significant improving in our hobbies. However, if these free studies become irregular and unpredictable they no longer serve as a showcase of talent and ability, but of the time and resources available to the photographers.
The weekly challenges do not offer this chance to showcase ability and talent, as they are serving a quite different role. They 'challenge' us by providing topics that we would not normally look into, and as such serve the purpose of expanding horizons into new areas. Those that have "learned to shoot for challenges", as it has been said, have simply had their horizons expanded as far as the challenges are capable of expanding them. From their posts, they universally are looking for ways to beyond a lateral expansion of ability and delve deeply into some aspect of one (perhaps relatively small) area of photography that interests them. They have not 'out-grown' the idea of being challenged in their photographic endeavors, but simply have no need for their box to get any bigger than they have already expanded it. I feel (without the actual statistics to verify or debunk) that this is the reason many of those whose names were listed as masters do not compete in the weekly challenges -- however, they have been quite consistent in entering the quarterly free studies.
I certainly don't blame them for that, as I for one, and I have seen several others as well, was looking forward to the September Free Study as well. I have made concentrated efforts to improve in various areas and have learned much I did not know for the last free study. I was quite interested in seeing just how well I have learned them, and how well I could place relative to how I have placed before.
Then this Masters' Free Study enters the scene. I know, it was not intended to be a replacement for the forgotten September Free Study, but as langdon said, "we honestly just forgot to schedule it and didn't feel that it would be a good idea to run two free study challenges simultaneously."; it is the reason that oversite was not corrected. So, intentional or not, this thing has robbed the majority of the site of our chance to showcase what we have learned in a regular, predictable and comparable manner to what we were capable of previously.
As for the purpose of the Masters' Challenge; langdon said, "the idea was to just get a challenge full of awesome shots and make it really fun to vote on." So, apparently, only those whose shots are worth seeing should be showcasing their talent. You think I am taking this the wrong way, how so? These same masters were already entering the quarterly free studies, and by doing so were competing against the others on that elite list. So being excluded from that abitrary list is a slap in the face that may as well be saying that we (those not on said list) are not capable of having improved enough to take an 'awesome shot'.
Want to see how these masters fair agaisnt the other masters? That has been done in every free study so far.
Want to compare statistics on how the masters vote on other masters photos? You have several existing free studies to draw your data from.
Want to argue that the extra images upset that data? If they can't pick out the other masters' photos from the collection, it only shows how arbitrary the exclusions were.
Want me to wait and see how this 'experiment' works out before passing judgement? Tough. An experiment is an excercise with an unknown outcome, the outcome of this so-called experiment was known when it was created, as I quoted langdon above (but it bears repeating), "the idea was to just get a challenge full of awesome shots and make it really fun to vote on." That it will be a roaring success in that regard is beyond question -- but so have all the previous free studies. If you don't want to waste your time viewing our images that are not quite up to your standards, then don't go past the first few pages. But be careful -- there just might just be a few people on those pages without ribbons -- but this takes care of that little minor annoyance. :(
It has been stated before that this is no different than the championship competitions of various other activities -- but it isn't. Those competitions are begun with everyone starting at the same time and ranking and only those who are currently participating and making their skill known progress further toward the final showdown. And after the competition is over, everyone starts over at the same level again. This, with it's 'once your in, your always in' mentality, with nothing capable of reducing your status, is just elitism.
If you desire to give those who have no need of being expanded by the weekly challenges something interesting to do on this site, tailor some portion of it toward what they are desiring. An in-depth study of the various aspects of photography would accomplish this. Pick a topic and any who want to become a part of that study will have to sign up for it. Run it for a month, with the same topic. On the first week each individual submits 10 photos that utilize the topic of the study, While these are being discussed in a forum atmosphere (private for those that signed up), the participants use the comments made to create 5 more images on that will be discussed in the next week while they create 3 more. Finally on the last week, they have the 'challenge' (for lack of a better word to call it) and create one image to show what they have learned from that month long study of the subject. The subject could be technical, such as lighting or macro; or it could be more aesthetic in nature such as taking images that convey emotion or that tell a story. The participation for the entire month is demanded, and is taken into consideration before signing up; while the participation in a forum-like environment provides a greatly needed level of back and forth interaction between photographer and viewer. This (slightly expanded) suggestion was made a while back by someone (sorry, but I do not remember who), but apparently has been forgotten.
Another simple suggestion, is to have the image viewing page be made a forum thread under a special forum for portfolio comments. When an image is commented upon, those comments are in a forum were others can see and interact with them. This also further enhances the back and forth interaction between photographer and viewer that is so sorely needed here. I made this suggestion previously, but after the initial burst of 'great idea' agreements, it too has been forgotten.
Also, the idea of labeling those who are demonstrating ability is not an unacceptable one, as long as it is done on a constantly updated basis. As an example of such a system, everyone starts off as an apprentice. If, in the past six months (as an example) they have met some requirements (such as, top 10% finish in a challenge and active in voting and commenting) they obtain the status of journeyman, and then if they meet further requirements (won a ribbon plus more active voting and commenting) they can be called a master. Do what you like with those who are currently earning the titles, as long as it is not at the expense of the rest of the site, and the site will become more interesting. I personally would like to see the status under the name in the forum; apprentice, journeyman or master and an indication of how many weeks they have managed to maintain that title. The values are arbitrary, just to give an example.
The main point is that if you want to improve this site, make changes that will increase the participation of all of the members; not changes that make exclusions and limit participation.
David |
BRAVO!!!! Well said! I gave up some time ago with the fact that this site needs 3 levels of competition for each challenge and 3 sets of winners and you just pointed it out again....Had someone thought a little longer on this challenge before offending as many as they had they would have had a free study and set it up somewhat like this...Masters challenge then a challenge for anyone who has competed in at least 4 challenges in the last 6 to 8 weeks and lastly one for new members and ones who just needed to be brought back to life cause lack of inspirations form the current challenge topics.
I'm sorry but I feel like everything now about the lack of a free study for all members this month are nothing more than excuses! It's pretty obvious that the site is really divided on this one.
My true feelings on the Master's challenge..."Great go ahead and swell someones head even more, divid us up as the Masters, the wanna bes and the maybe somedays."
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09/04/2004 10:20:43 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by ursula:
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so maybe this has been said before here, but ... |
... but why not?
I've written (and so have others) a lot of stuff already which directly addressed your concerns -- now I should have to write it all again, or research and quote myself?
Sorry, but this is a stressful discussion for everyone, and it seems somewhat rude to me to "hit and run" post that way without exploring the background a little more ... I'd rather read about how you feel now as compared to your initial reaction, not just the reflexive response to seeing the challenge ... |
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09/04/2004 10:37:04 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by ursula:
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so maybe this has been said before here, but ... for myself, I think it is silly (and somewhat insulting?) to have a challenge limited to only those who have two (or is it three?) or more ribbons here, and call it "Master's" challenge on top of it, and have everyone vote on it! I am not very good with words, and I can't quite put it into words why it bothers me, but it does, quite a bit. I haven't participated much here lately, and a thing like this makes me want to participate even less.
Anyway, that's that. I hope this is not way off topic in this thread, but I just wanted to say that.
Edited for spelling
Addition: BTW, I was really looking forward to a "free challenge" in September, one open to all. |
Ursula, I was just sitting here thinking about who I would like to see win this challenge and 4 names came to mind...I completely understand your feeling insulted just as much as I'm offended by this challenge. You are one of the best on this site as far as I'm concerned. I've asked you for help and time and time again you gave it to me...A few of those ribbon winners won't even answer a question unless you post it here in the forum cause they are beneath privately helping others. (Not to offend anyone but there are a few who won't reply to a question asked in a pm)
A real master of photography is someone who can master not only the photography but teach others at the same time so...Since you were one of the 4 who I would like to see win the masters challenge...I'd like to say this, Ursula show them those beautiful Canadian autumns that should be pretty vibrant before the end of the month! Go get that blue ribbon girl you deserve it!
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09/04/2004 10:55:52 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by ursula:
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so maybe this has been said before here, but ... |
... but why not?
I've written (and so have others) a lot of stuff already which directly addressed your concerns -- now I should have to write it all again, or research and quote myself?
Sorry, but this is a stressful discussion for everyone, and it seems somewhat rude to me to "hit and run" post that way without exploring the background a little more ... I'd rather read about how you feel now as compared to your initial reaction, not just the reflexive response to seeing the challenge ... |
Paul, you're right. I should have read all the posts before saying something. I apologize. |
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09/04/2004 11:00:32 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Originally posted by ursula:
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so maybe this has been said before here, but ... for myself, I think it is silly (and somewhat insulting?) to have a challenge limited to only those who have two (or is it three?) or more ribbons here, and call it "Master's" challenge on top of it, and have everyone vote on it! I am not very good with words, and I can't quite put it into words why it bothers me, but it does, quite a bit. I haven't participated much here lately, and a thing like this makes me want to participate even less.
Anyway, that's that. I hope this is not way off topic in this thread, but I just wanted to say that.
Edited for spelling
Addition: BTW, I was really looking forward to a "free challenge" in September, one open to all. |
Ursula, I was just sitting here thinking about who I would like to see win this challenge and 4 names came to mind...I completely understand your feeling insulted just as much as I'm offended by this challenge. You are one of the best on this site as far as I'm concerned. I've asked you for help and time and time again you gave it to me...A few of those ribbon winners won't even answer a question unless you post it here in the forum cause they are beneath privately helping others. (Not to offend anyone but there are a few who won't reply to a question asked in a pm)
A real master of photography is someone who can master not only the photography but teach others at the same time so...Since you were one of the 4 who I would like to see win the masters challenge...I'd like to say this, Ursula show them those beautiful Canadian autumns that should be pretty vibrant before the end of the month! Go get that blue ribbon girl you deserve it! |
Thank you, Anna, I appreciate your words. But Paul is right, I shouldn't just say something so carelessly. Pennsylvania autumns are also just beautiful, they glow! |
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09/04/2004 11:02:27 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by ursula:
Pennsylvania autumns are also just beautiful, they glow! |
Glow as they may...it won't be til mid October...you get a few weeks head start on me for the vibrant autumn mountains.
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09/04/2004 11:05:39 PM · #90 |
I'm pretty new her on DPC,
but after reading this thread, I just have to give all of you my 2 cents. You can take it or leave it, I don't care.
basically,
I think having a masters challenge is totally appropriate. These people are constantly winning, and ya know what? There great at photography. Let's see who among them can come up with a winning shot when all they are competing against is the other photographers who produce consistantly strong photos. There are still 2 other competitions you can compete in if you haven't won enough ribbons. Yeah, it might not seem fair, but neither is life. It's an experiment on DPC and I think they should do it ALL the time. It gives those who are way at the top a chance to learn a little bit more.
Maybe as part of the rules, each person who enters should be required to write a detailed "how'd you do it" for thier image. That way, anyone who cares can take that information and expand their own photography goals.
And about this comment from onesweetsin:
My true feelings on the Master's challenge..."Great go ahead and swell someones head even more, divid us up as the Masters, the wanna bes and the maybe somedays."
that is how it really is. That is half the point of this website. "the maybe someday's" are learning form the "wanna be's" who are learning from the "masters" and the masters are learning from other masters. that's just the way it is. Hopefully and ideally the masters are helping those with less skill learn more. I've read so many very helpful comments in threads by "masters" who are answering questions from "wanna be's" and "maybe somedays" I've personally questioned other photographers on this site about how they did their photos, and I've LEARNED from them. I've also answered questions from other photographers and hopefully I've tought them something.
It is split up like you said. That is just the way it is.
Message edited by author 2004-09-04 23:20:35.
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09/04/2004 11:26:40 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by ericlimon:
I'm pretty new her on DPC,
but after reading this thread, I just have to give all of you my 2 cents. You can take it or leave it, I don't care.
basically,
I think having a masters challenge is totally appropriate. These people are constantly winning, and ya know what? There great at photography. Let's see who among them can come up with a winning shot when all they are competing against is the other photographers who produce consistantly strong photos. There are still 2 other competitions you can compete in if you haven't won enough ribbons. Yeah, it might not seem fair, but neither is life. It's an experiment on DPC and I think they should do it ALL the time. It gives those who are way at the top a chance to learn a little bit more.
Maybe as part of the rules, each person who enters should be required to write a detailed "how'd you do it" for thier image. That way, anyone who cares can take that information and expand their own photography goals.
And about this comment from onesweetsin:
My true feelings on the Master's challenge..."Great go ahead and swell someones head even more, divid us up as the Masters, the wanna bes and the maybe somedays."
that is how it really is. That is half the point of this website. "the maybe someday's" are learning form the "wanna be's" who are learning from the "masters" and the masters are learning from other masters. that's just the way it is. Hopefully and ideally the masters are helping those with less skill learn more. I've read so many very helpful comments in threads by "masters" who are answering questions from "wanna be's" and "maybe somedays" I've personally questioned other photographers on this site about how they did their photos, and I've LEARNED from them. I've also answered questions from other photographers and hopefully I've tought them something.
It is split up like you said. That is just the way it is. |
Well said Eric. That is why I sent in my check so I too can have a blue shirt! |
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09/05/2004 12:08:27 AM · #92 |
I wanted to clarify one point. The choice of the word Masters for this challenge is totally mine. Not site council, not Drew and Langdon. Not ClubJuggle.
MINE.
I selected the word off the top of my head because it sounded good. )and cause I'd been reading about art masters and thought it was a neat idea) That's it. No ulterior motive, no sneering at those lower than me. Frankly there aren't many lower than me. :)
I'm actually floored by the reaction over the name. Floored to the point where I end up thinking I should never have suggested the idea in the first place. I respect the work the folks on SC do, and had I thought for a minute that I'd have caused this much stress I would have left the idea locked up in my head.
Guys, I really apologize.
For the site, I'll be honest- I expected better of you guys. So many of you are ready to assume the worst. There's no malice here. None.
Just think about it. Please.
Clara
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09/05/2004 12:12:36 AM · #93 |
| I love the idea for this master's challenge and am looking forward to seeing the results of it. It's news to me that these very successful DPC photographers have developed a formula for winning and it's something I want to learn. I hope I can figure some of them out but in lieu of that unlikely event happening, maybe we can get Dhare to ask the masters some of their secrets in interviews. |
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09/05/2004 12:14:01 AM · #94 |
Originally posted by blemt:
I wanted to clarify one point. The choice of the word Masters for this challenge is totally mine. Not site council, not Drew and Langdon. Not ClubJuggle.
MINE.
I selected the word off the top of my head because it sounded good. )and cause I'd been reading about art masters and thought it was a neat idea) That's it. No ulterior motive, no sneering at those lower than me. Frankly there aren't many lower than me. :)
I'm actually floored by the reaction over the name. Floored to the point where I end up thinking I should never have suggested the idea in the first place. I respect the work the folks on SC do, and had I thought for a minute that I'd have caused this much stress I would have left the idea locked up in my head.
Guys, I really apologize.
For the site, I'll be honest- I expected better of you guys. So many of you are ready to assume the worst. There's no malice here. None.
Just think about it. Please.
Clara |
no apology needed *here* :) I think it's a great idea, and the word "master" means nothing to me.. no matter what it would have been, someone would have found *something* wrong with it... and trust me, I'm not saying it's a great idea because I'm "going with the flow to avoid confrontation" like I've seen accusations of. I really, honestly do think it's a great idea. So kudos for coming up with it, congratulations for having the guts to bring it forward to the site admins.. and good luck to everyone in it.
As for everyone else, and all the negativity.. *that* is easy enough to ignore.
(or read and laugh at for entertainment purposes.)
Message edited by author 2004-09-05 00:14:50.
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09/05/2004 12:27:32 AM · #95 |
| I think it would also add immensely to this challenge that it be required of all "masters" who have submitted an entry that they be required to give some kind of in depth written critique along with their votes (their actual scores) on all pictures they vote on. Then there would be A LOT to learn from this challenge for all of the DPC community. This could be invaluable for all to learn from, imo. |
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09/05/2004 12:38:52 AM · #96 |
I really do hate to be the bearer of bad news for some of you who believe that "all men are created equal" crap, but SOME PEOPLE ARE BETTER PHOTOGRAPHERS THAN OTHERS.
Deal.
M
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09/05/2004 01:48:43 AM · #97 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Not another thread about laurielblack again ...! |
Dang, I kinda like starting threads about Laurie...
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09/05/2004 01:56:15 AM · #98 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Not another thread about laurielblack again ...! |
Dang, I kinda like starting threads about Laurie... |
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09/05/2004 01:58:49 AM · #99 |
When I first came to this site, I realized right away that it was a place where I could learn a sh...crapload about photography. The reason was because...(drumroll please) it was set up as a competition. Competition brings out the best in people. Look at the Olympics... Now where I come from, people that win in the little challenges get a chance to play in the big tournament. This is not something new, it's been around for a damn long time!
Competition also can bring out the worst in people. Look at all the crap that goes on between parents at a little league game...
What's the big deal? It's a competition, some win, most don't... But MOST still play!
Let's start playin' again! Now, who's gotta photo to show me?
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09/05/2004 02:11:10 AM · #100 |
Expounding on my previous post... I for one am looking forward to the chance to vote on many of my now, and many of my future, favorite photographers. If it works and they all don't get scared off by all the bad karma in these threads, there should be some damn good work to look at...
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