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09/01/2004 05:19:50 PM · #1 |
| I've noticed several photos in the "framing" challenge that don't meet the challenge. They don't have a frame, or it's not in the foreground, or other problems. How do you vote on these submissions? Some of them are good pictures, they just have nothing to do with the challenge. |
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09/01/2004 05:29:12 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by srpavo:
I've noticed several photos in the "framing" challenge that don't meet the challenge. They don't have a frame, or it's not in the foreground, or other problems. How do you vote on these submissions? Some of them are good pictures, they just have nothing to do with the challenge. |
Technically I think you are supposed give the benefit of the doubt and vote on the image as though it did meet the challenge. I tend to look *very* hard for something that could be construed as meeting the challenge and apply a great deal of artistic license - especially given how loosely worded some the challenges are. I do mentally award bonus points for a shot which is both amazing in quality AND creative in meeting the challenge. Usually I'm pretty lenient though.
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09/01/2004 05:45:26 PM · #3 |
I think some interpret "frames" to be completely enclosed. That's just one definition...
//dictionary.reference.com/search?q=frame
When I vote on a photo, I try to keep my interpretation out of it and try to see the photographers' interpretation. I may not always see it, but I may just give them the benefit of the doubt. Just because I can't see it from their perspective doesn't mean it absolutely doesn't meet the challenge.
That being said, don't judge too harshly. |
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09/01/2004 05:46:36 PM · #4 |
I usually pick a reference point be it 4 or 5 or 6 depending on how hard it was for me to interpret the challenge.
So if I find it very easy to interpret the challenge I award a 4 if it meets the challenge according to my interpretation then adjust depending on the quality. And if it is very hard for me to interpret and have seen plenty of debate in the forums I use 6 as a starting point.
This is just my system I hope I didn't confuse. |
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09/01/2004 05:52:08 PM · #5 |
We are supposed to hold the challenge theme in the highest regard while voting. Many people automatically assign a 1 to any photo that has zero connection the challenge, no matter how good it may be on its own. I'm pretty lenient in that regard, but a photo that really doesn't meet the challenge at all won't get more than a 4 or 5 from me.
Giving the benefit of the doubt refers to images that you think may have been illegally manipulated or processed- you vote normally, but recommend the image be disqualified. |
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09/01/2004 05:57:08 PM · #6 |
| if it obviously doesnt meet the challenge, i.e. no apparent frame, i dont think it should be awaded anything above 4, simply because its supposed to meet the challenge. if its an ugly picture, but it meets the challenge, it shouldnt get anything lower that 3-4, because it respects the rules. |
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09/01/2004 05:58:45 PM · #7 |
I have an image in the challenge that some people might think "the frame is not in the foreground" but, if a voter thinks a bit more, they might realize that the forground subject really does actually frame the rest of my image (maybe not in the traditional way, but it DEFINATELY frames the rest of the image). So before you vote down on an image that you think might not fit the challenge, think hard about the image as a whole, and vote accordingly.
E
p.s. - Go give me a 10!
:D
Message edited by author 2004-09-01 18:10:24.
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09/01/2004 06:10:04 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by cghubbell:
Technically I think you are supposed give the benefit of the doubt and vote on the image as though it did meet the challenge. |
I disagree; the challenge rules clearly state:
While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly.
(emphasis as-is in the rules)
So if you can't see a foreground element acting as a frame, you are free to "vote it low" for not meeting the challenge, even if it is an otherwise-fantastic picture. (Of course you are free to rate it a "10" as well, I'm merely pointing out what the rules say about holding the challenge in the highest regard.)
Giving the benefit of the doubt is for images that you think may be manipulated beyond the editing rules that you recommend for DQ.
Edit: oops, what scalvert said. =]
Message edited by author 2004-09-01 18:13:09. |
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09/01/2004 06:31:12 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by cghubbell:
Technically I think you are supposed give the benefit of the doubt and vote on the image as though it did meet the challenge. |
So, "technically," if I run 2 yards of a 10k run and "act" as if I'm tired, the judges should give me the "benifit of the doubt" as though I ran the race?
I knew I was doing something wrong...
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09/01/2004 06:41:49 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by srpavo:
I've noticed several photos in the "framing" challenge that don't meet the challenge. |
Several? Are we being modest here? :D |
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09/01/2004 06:44:19 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
I disagree; the challenge rules clearly state:
While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly.
(emphasis as-is in the rules) |
A clear statement applied to an individual's interpretation.
My interpretation of the topic may be totally different from someone else's and when you apply that statement, you still end up with two different opinions/ratings. One may recommend for DQ while the other sees it as fitting.
Only by leaving yourself open to others' interpretations do you come to a more uniform decision. |
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09/01/2004 07:02:06 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by cghubbell:
Originally posted by srpavo:
I've noticed several photos in the "framing" challenge that don't meet the challenge. They don't have a frame, or it's not in the foreground, or other problems. How do you vote on these submissions? Some of them are good pictures, they just have nothing to do with the challenge. |
Technically I think you are supposed give the benefit of the doubt and vote on the image as though it did meet the challenge. I tend to look *very* hard for something that could be construed as meeting the challenge and apply a great deal of artistic license - especially given how loosely worded some the challenges are. I do mentally award bonus points for a shot which is both amazing in quality AND creative in meeting the challenge. Usually I'm pretty lenient though. |
I don't think so. We have the right to vote the way we want. I will give someone a 1 if it doesn't meet the challenge for me. Why have a challenge?
Message edited by author 2004-09-01 19:05:17.
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09/01/2004 07:29:14 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by ggbudge:
Originally posted by EddyG:
I disagree; the challenge rules clearly state:
While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly.
(emphasis as-is in the rules) |
A clear statement applied to an individual's interpretation.
My interpretation of the topic may be totally different from someone else's and when you apply that statement, you still end up with two different opinions/ratings. One may recommend for DQ while the other sees it as fitting.
Only by leaving yourself open to others' interpretations do you come to a more uniform decision. |
I didn't think not meeting the challenge was grounds for a DQ. Not meeting the challenge only ends up in low votes. |
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09/01/2004 07:32:30 PM · #14 |
I don't think so. We have the right to vote the way we want. I will give someone a 1 if it doesn't meet the challenge for me. Why have a challenge? [/quote]
So you would take a picture that has the quality of a 10 and give it a 1 because you think it does not meet the challenge? A little tuff there donĂ¢€™t you think. After all this is just for a virtual ribbon and not for a shot on National Geographic. |
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09/01/2004 07:47:19 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by midnightride2:
So you would take a picture that has the quality of a 10 and give it a 1 because you think it does not meet the challenge? A little tuff there donĂ¢€™t you think. After all this is just for a virtual ribbon and not for a shot on National Geographic. |
Ok, if you were to submit a photo of a dog to National Geographic for the challenge "cats". What do you think they would say?
Holy cow! I have bad typing skills tonight.
Message edited by author 2004-09-01 19:48:52.
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09/01/2004 07:50:54 PM · #16 |
The only images that get a 1 from me are images that do not meet the challenge in ANY way. I look really hard and if I don't see it, I give it a 1. It's not fair for someone to get a 4 or a 5 for not meeting the challenge and then give someone else a 4 or 5 who met the challenge but their photo just wasnt up to par. Those who meet the challenge FULLY should come way before those who do not.
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09/01/2004 07:59:24 PM · #17 |
| Sonifo I agree, but here we have to put some thought into what the person who entered that picture is thinking. Like does a few leafs in a picture indicate a frame. It might to that person. I guess it all comes down to trying to understand what the person is trying to convey. Which I guess makes us all different. So in the end I guess it is up the person voting on that picture. I will agree to disagree. ;) |
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09/01/2004 08:00:47 PM · #18 |
| This is my hardest challenge to vote on since many of them don't even meet the challenge. I agree if you don't meet the challenge then you get a really low score even if the picture is good. |
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09/01/2004 08:01:59 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by midnightride2:
Sonifo I agree, but here we have to put some thought into what the person who entered that picture is thinking. Like does a few leafs in a picture indicate a frame. It might to that person. I guess it all comes down to trying to understand what the person is trying to convey. Which I guess makes us all different. So in the end I guess it is up the person voting on that picture. I will agree to disagree. ;) |
I also agree that we should take more then a few seconds to look at a picture. We should study it, try to understand what the person is saying. I still give a 1 to the ones I see not fit for the challenge. Not very many get a 1 from me but I do give them. :-))
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09/01/2004 08:05:07 PM · #20 |
I also agree that we should take more then a few seconds to look at a picture. We should study it, try to understand what the person is saying. I still give a 1 to the ones I see not fit for the challenge. Not very many get a 1 from me but I do give them. :-)) [/quote]text
very well said, ;) |
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09/01/2004 08:17:41 PM · #21 |
It is very difficult for me to give out a "1". Of course, it is difficult for me to give a "10" also. The reality is that no matter what the challenge definition, it will be interpreted differently by different people. So, with that thought in mind, I try not to be too dogmatic in my views of "meeting the challenge". Now, when I look at a photo and it has no frame, try as I might, I can not say it meets the challenge. In such extreme cases, it may recieve a "1".
Clearly the challenge has to count in the voting or the challenge simply turns into a "photo of the week" contest.
Just my 2 cents. |
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09/01/2004 08:23:58 PM · #22 |
Honestly what I did with the ones that didn't fit the challenge .. I start at a 5 and go down from there, taking in consideration the technical aspects of the shot. I just don't believe in giving out ones to a photo that looks good even if it doesn't meet the challenge. I am sure when the person entered they had a reason and believed that it did fit the challnege .. so I won't throw them a one for that...
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09/01/2004 08:24:49 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by cghubbell:
Technically I think you are supposed give the benefit of the doubt and vote on the image as though it did meet the challenge. |
Mea culpa! The rules definitely are in contrast to my statement's wording.
But my statements still stand. I don't pretend to believe that I can see through the artists eye on everything, so I try very hard to give the benefit of the doubt on whether or not they met the challenge. In weighting my votes, it's one of three categories: Nope, not even close (no better than a 4), met the challenge+average shot (4-5), or met the challenge + wow! (6+). For me, meeting the challenge is more of a yes or no. Given two shots that meet the challenge given reasonable benefit of the doubt I'll always give the better photograph the better score.
I can respect any other interpretation on the rules, but that's pretty much how I do it.
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09/01/2004 08:34:44 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by cghubbell:
...I don't pretend to believe that I can see through the artists eye on everything, so I try very hard to give the benefit of the doubt on whether or not they met the challenge.
... |
I agree. I think flexibility and open-mindedness are the catch-words of a good art critic (..and isn't that what we try to be when we vote here?)
If I can see in the slightest way how the photographer is interpreting the challenge, and thereby his/her intent to meet it, then I judge the image on its own creative and technical merits.
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09/01/2004 08:37:41 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by cghubbell:
Mea culpa! The rules definitely are in contrast to my statement's wording.
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 That's 3 lashes for you, young man!
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