Is this hypocrisy? - DPChallenge Forums

01/17/2013 03:27:25 PM · #651

This is why I carry a gun!!!

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

01/17/2013 03:59:47 PM · #652

Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
//www.assaultweapon.info/

Originally posted by BrennanOB:
I know that there will be no consensus on keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, because in the mind of the average gun owner, there is no solution to gun violence except having more guns.

The NRA and its supporters say we have enough laws, we just have to enforce them. Then it argues that groups like Mayors Against Illegal Guns should leave enforcement to the Feds, and the ATF. Then the Supreme Court told us that local government could not pass laws to limit guns, only the Feds could oversee limits.

Of course the ATF has not had a head in 6 years, and the man who is provisional head does it part time, from his home in Minnesota. Riders have been slipped into bills to no longer require annual stock reporting from dealers, to weaken penalties and raise the standard of proof in charging dealers. The ATF is legally limited to inspecting a dealer to a maximum of once a year, and their budget only allows an inspection every 17 years. We know that 52% of all guns used in crimes originate from 1% of gun dealers, but the NRA is making sure that We The People are allowed to do nothing to close them down.

I doubt those who do not own guns know that the careful background check that applicants are put through before they are allowed to purchase a gun, last less than a day. Background check records are legally required to be destroyed after 24 hours. That the ATF are not allowed to keep computer records of gun registration, all records are limited to paper, and nothing is allowed to be shared with any other agency to help investigations.

So in reality the weapons of war that are on our streets are not the primary problem; it is the fact that those who are opposed to our laws have been allowed to weaken the enforcement mechanism to the point that the ATF has virtually no power to enforce gun laws, and yet are the only agency allowed to enforce those laws. They are well funded and free to act to enforce tobacco and alcohol laws, but are handcuffed by the NRA when it comes to firearms (this at a time when the Patriot act and the like give all other federal agencies greater latitude than ever).

As our streets become battlegrounds those of us who do not see arming ourselves as the ideal response will take action. It may be banning certain types of hardware, but it would be more effective if we were allowed to enforce gun laws with vigor and logic, rather than the hobbled joke that the ATF has become.

Exactly right, BrennanOB! The gun lobby argues ad nauseam that we're going after the wrong weapon, or the wrong ammunition, or it doesn't matter anyway about the weapon or ammunition because another will be manufactured to take its place and specifically designed to skirt the prohibitions in the law, and then every attempt is made to weaken and undermine the laws that are in place.... blah blah blah, one excuse after another... oh yeah, and if it's not guns then they'll be coming after us with knives and bats and chairs. Jesus Christ what a sickening display!! Do you gun folks have even one productive suggestion that would make a positive difference, that doesn't require more guns, that you'd be willing to commit your mouth and your money to??

I ask you the same thing. All the legislation proposed (that has been tried before) only works to further degrade OUR 2A right and does nothing to curb or even prevent crime and violent acts with a firearm. So I ask you what is it about the proposed legislation (that has been proven noneffective) will prevent crime?

And lets be perfectly clear. I am not a "Gun Folk" or a "Gun Nut" I am a Bill of Rights nut. And I choose to exercise my 2A right. Now I am perfectly fine if you choose not to exercise your 2A right but I would hope that it is as important to you as it is to me to protect it.

As I said earlier I am in favor for better background checks NOT universal background checks (Implies Registration) and I am in favor of requiring some training however it is not the Federal Government that needs to enact this it should be the State. As well mental health information sharing between agencies.

@ Brennan - The reason there has been a temporary BATFE chief is that Obama has waited 4 years to appoint one. He just made that appointment in making B. Todd Jones the official Director. Now the NRA does not make the laws they lobby, they do not control the BATFE (if they did none of us would be having this conversation).

Message edited by author 2013-01-17 16:51:17.

Strikeslip

Canon EOS-5D

01/17/2013 04:07:13 PM · #653

One musket and horn full of black powder for every American, I say!

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/17/2013 04:28:09 PM · #654

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

This is why I carry a gun!!!

So you can carjack a truck in a crowded parking lot??

Seriously, though, had you been there, how would you have stopped this without endangering the child still in the vehicle?

I do have to say Texas was a whole lot less dangerous when I lived there. Not sure I would move back now.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

01/17/2013 04:36:05 PM · #655

Originally posted by Venser:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
so what would you have us do...Outlaw all guns????Have the police force disarm the people.

That sounds vaguely familiar...Let me see, was it Germany right before WW2
Or how about modern day Japan where homicides by firearms are virtually non-existent.

Japan, the land where crime reporting is discouraged (because it makes the country look bad) and investigations are wrapped up hurriedly because having them open causes the police to look bad...

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

01/17/2013 05:32:55 PM · #656

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

//www.assaultweapon.info/

...Yep, and other than the one instance that someone brought to the fore just the other day, I would love to see the statistics on the number of Mass Murders committed by hammer and knife wielding individuals.

Ray

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

01/17/2013 05:38:49 PM · #657

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
//www.assaultweapon.info/

...Yep, and other than the one instance that someone brought to the fore just the other day, I would love to see the statistics on the number of Mass Murders committed by hammer and knife wielding individuals.

Ray

That was me also...

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

01/17/2013 05:39:10 PM · #658

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

...I would like to throw out this little tidbit of discussion fodder. If they reduce the the number of rounds allowed in a magazine how will this prevent having 2 or 3 or 4 guns? See my point is you reduce the number of rounds to 10 but I have 3 loaded guns it is still 30rds in the magazines and just as fast if I only had one gun with a 30 rounder. This is just feel good legislation restricting my right without any critical thinking behind the decision.

...Don't know about any of you folks, but I find carrying 3 cameras a tad cumbersome and they are a lot easier to shoot than long barreled loaded weapons.

Ray

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

01/17/2013 05:39:39 PM · #659

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
//www.assaultweapon.info/

...Yep, and other than the one instance that someone brought to the fore just the other day, I would love to see the statistics on the number of Mass Murders committed by hammer and knife wielding individuals.

Ray

That was me also...

Yes it was... thanks for that.

Ray

01/17/2013 05:49:05 PM · #660

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Now the NRA does not make the laws they lobby, they do not control the BATFE (if they did none of us would be having this conversation).

Seems they do make the laws...

01/17/2013 05:52:37 PM · #661

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Now the NRA does not make the laws they lobby, they do not control the BATFE (if they did none of us would be having this conversation).

Seems they do make the laws...

I love John Stewart and I get the irony but I am sure we don't need a civics lesson on how laws are made.

01/17/2013 05:59:34 PM · #662

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Now the NRA does not make the laws they lobby, they do not control the BATFE (if they did none of us would be having this conversation).

Seems they do make the laws...

I love John Stewart and I get the irony but I am sure we don't need a civics lesson on how laws are made.

No civics lessons required. We all know how laws are passed. The lobby of said law tells the senator that is on their secret (or not so secret) payroll what they want the law to say, the senator writes the bill out then jams it through congress attached to some other bill that no one dares vote against. Ta Da!

eta: forgot my smiley face... ;D

Message edited by author 2013-01-17 18:00:26.

01/17/2013 06:03:11 PM · #663

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Now the NRA does not make the laws they lobby, they do not control the BATFE (if they did none of us would be having this conversation).

Seems they do make the laws...

I love John Stewart and I get the irony but I am sure we don't need a civics lesson on how laws are made.

No civics lessons required. We all know how laws are passed. The lobby of said law tells the senator that is on their secret (or not so secret) payroll what they want the law to say, the senator writes the bill out then jams it through congress attached to some other bill that no one dares vote against. Ta Da!

eta: forgot my smiley face... ;D

Yep sounds like Obamacare

kenskid

Nikon D700

01/17/2013 06:03:19 PM · #664

In your opinion, what would a foot patrol policeman or security guard have done if he was watching this unfold?

Originally posted by Melethia:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
This is why I carry a gun!!!

So you can carjack a truck in a crowded parking lot??

Seriously, though, had you been there, how would you have stopped this without endangering the child still in the vehicle?I do have to say Texas was a whole lot less dangerous when I lived there. Not sure I would move back now.

01/17/2013 06:05:27 PM · #665

prob would have pulled his gun

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

01/17/2013 06:08:20 PM · #666

Originally posted by Kelli:

So you are saying that this Senator is breaking the law? Or are you just being silly to make a point?

If there is any impropriety and said Senator is accepting illegal bribes then he/she should be arrested.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

01/17/2013 06:17:34 PM · #667

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Now the NRA does not make the laws they lobby, they do not control the BATFE (if they did none of us would be having this conversation).

Seems they do make the laws...

I love John Stewart and I get the irony but I am sure we don't need a civics lesson on how laws are made.

No civics lessons required. We all know how laws are passed. The lobby of said law tells the senator that is on their secret (or not so secret) payroll what they want the law to say, the senator writes the bill out then jams it through congress attached to some other bill that no one dares vote against. Ta Da!

eta: forgot my smiley face... ;D

So you are saying that this Senator is breaking the law? Or are you just being silly to make a point?

If there is any impropriety and said Senator is accepting illegal bribes then he/she should be arrested.

Waddy, it's a known fact that congressmen commonly introduce regulatory bills that have been written by the special interest groups most closely involved with them. The congresspeople say they have to turn to the recognized experts in the field to write these bills, and the best experts work for the lobbying groups that represent the industry being regulated. It's one of the most appalling things about how hour legislative process works now.

01/17/2013 06:22:26 PM · #668

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Now the NRA does not make the laws they lobby, they do not control the BATFE (if they did none of us would be having this conversation).

Seems they do make the laws...

I love John Stewart and I get the irony but I am sure we don't need a civics lesson on how laws are made.

No civics lessons required. We all know how laws are passed. The lobby of said law tells the senator that is on their secret (or not so secret) payroll what they want the law to say, the senator writes the bill out then jams it through congress attached to some other bill that no one dares vote against. Ta Da!

eta: forgot my smiley face... ;D

So you are saying that this Senator is breaking the law? Or are you just being silly to make a point?

If there is any impropriety and said Senator is accepting illegal bribes then he/she should be arrested.

Waddy, it's a known fact that congressmen commonly introduce regulatory bills that have been written by the special interest groups most closely involved with them. The congresspeople say they have to turn to the recognized experts in the field to write these bills, and the best experts work for the lobbying groups that represent the industry being regulated. It's one of the most appalling things about how hour legislative process works now.

Indeed, I understand this. I know it is how Washington works and it is grotesque.

Message edited by author 2013-01-17 18:24:28.

01/17/2013 06:23:01 PM · #669

oops

Message edited by author 2013-01-17 18:23:16.

01/17/2013 06:23:42 PM · #670

It seems that I write someone a letter or e-mail atleast once a week pertaining to something dealing with this administration. Hell Im expecting Rodney Alexander to invite me for dinner sometime....lol

01/17/2013 06:35:40 PM · #671

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

+1 Yep, what Bear said!

01/17/2013 06:42:51 PM · #672

Originally posted by Kelli:

+1 Yep, what Bear said!

I acknowledged what it was that you were trying to say. Bear put correctly rather than imply a bribe. It is this type of messaging that causes the discussion to derail. Washington is broke but it is the system we have to work with.

It would behoove us to seek common ground on the issue rather than let it be divisive. I get that it is an extremely emotional topic but I have yet to hear from Washington in all that has been reported on how we are going to reduce the violence and protect our children all I hear is how OUR rights will be restricted.

01/17/2013 06:54:30 PM · #673

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by Kelli:

+1 Yep, what Bear said!

I acknowledged what it was that you were trying to say. Bear put correctly rather than imply a bribe. It is this type of messaging that causes the discussion to derail. Washington is broke but it is the system we have to work with.

It would behoove us to seek common ground on the issue rather than let it be divisive. I get that it is an extremely emotional topic but I have yet to hear from Washington in all that has been reported on how we are going to reduce the violence and protect our children all I hear is how OUR rights will be restricted.

I'm not anti gun. I know plenty of people that have them, even here in NJ where the laws are tough. I've been exposed to them growing up, and I've shot a number of different types myself. I don't personally like them. I don't own one, nor would I have one in my house. I know plenty of hunters, sport shooters that go to ranges, etc. But, at the same time. I do appreciate the way it works around here. And I do believe there are things that can be done without taking away rights. Responsibility should be #1. You should not be able to just go to a store and buy a gun and ammo and walk out with it. There should absolutely be background checks for mental illness and criminal records. There should absolutely be laws about storage. Between the mattress and the box spring just doesn't cut it for me, nor do closet shelves. A safe that a child can't open would be a big help in reducing accidental shootings. And parents should be held accountable for a child/teen getting their hands on a gun and hurting and/or killing someone. There should be a national database of who owns what gun. It would make police work a lot simpler. I could go on, but I won't.