Open Letter to Langdon - DPChallenge Forums

11/29/2012 12:01:44 PM · #326

Originally posted by MNet:

The boat is sinking and we should do something about it because soon there will be no challenges at all. Maybe Langdon will finally notice and respond.

Margaret, what we CAN do, what a LOT of us DO do, is to get back to why we're here in the first place: taking pictures, entering them in main or side challenges, vote and comment, get technical or emotional support, hang out with friends, and invite people interested in improving their photography to join us. NOTHING about that process has been changed, so why not continue to enjoy it while we can?

It has been made ABUNDANTLY clear that the sort of change that is being demanded on this thread is not going to happen at this time, if ever. It is clear that DPC has issues, NOT that DPC is shutting its doors. Although that may indeed happen someday, it is not going to be saved by this thread, nor by this continuous smackdown. DPC is what it is for the foreseeable future, and I suggest to everyone venting here that it is far more pleasurable to go back to taking pictures and enjoying this site for what it currently IS, and stop mourning about what it ISN'T. Live in the moment, peeps!

11/29/2012 12:01:49 PM · #327

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

It should be noted that this is not a GTFO edict, but merely a suggestion that if one doesn't like the site, how about just moving on without all the bitterness and complaining? It's not constructive, and when you make unreasonable, or for that matter, demands of any sort, then you're pretty much guaranteed to be disappointed.

Agreed. That's why I made a graph without voicing any direct opinions. I prefer to present facts before discussion - makes more sense that way.

Message edited by author 2012-11-29 12:02:40.

bohemka

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

11/29/2012 12:06:50 PM · #328

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Why some people think that just because *they* decide things "need to change" escapes me. What's here is what was here when they joined...

Jeb, would you mind speaking to my wife?

11/29/2012 12:07:19 PM · #329

Originally posted by daisydavid:

They made a movie about us !

LOL!!

Tiny

Apple iPad mini 4

11/29/2012 12:07:26 PM · #330

Originally posted by tanguera:

Originally posted by MNet:
The boat is sinking and we should do something about it because soon there will be no challenges at all. Maybe Langdon will finally notice and respond.

Margaret, what we CAN do, what a LOT of us DO do, is to get back to why we're here in the first place: taking pictures, entering them in main or side challenges, vote and comment, get technical or emotional support, hang out with friends, and invite people interested in improving their photography to join us. NOTHING about that process has been changed, so why not continue to enjoy it while we can?

It has been made ABUNDANTLY clear that the sort of change that is being demanded on this thread is not going to happen at this time, if ever. It is clear that DPC has issues, NOT that DPC is shutting its doors. Although that may indeed happen someday, it is not going to be saved by this thread, nor by this continuous smackdown. DPC is what it is for the foreseeable future, and I suggest to everyone venting here that it is far more pleasurable to go back to taking pictures and enjoying this site for what it currently IS, and stop mourning about what it ISN'T. Live in the moment, peeps!

YES YES YES YES

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

11/29/2012 12:12:09 PM · #331

sounds like there are quite a few people who just like to complain for the sake of complaining.
if you don't get out of the site what you WANT, then either a) leave, b) start your own site, or c) get over it and enjoy DPC for what it does offer.

seems simple enough for me.
I wouldn't mind seeing some of this bickering gone for good.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

11/29/2012 12:14:05 PM · #332

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Why some people think that just because *they* decide things "need to change" escapes me. What's here is what was here when they joined...

Originally posted by bohemka:

Jeb, would you mind speaking to my wife?

Dude......do I *really* have to explain THE RULES to you?

1. The Female always makes THE RULES.
2. THE RULES are subject to change without notice.
3. No Male can possible know all THE RULES.
4. If the Female suspects the Male knows all THE RULES, she must immediately change some of THE RULES
5. The Female is never wrong.
6. If it appears the Female is wrong, it is because of a flagrant misunderstanding caused by something the Male did or said wrong.
7. If Rule 6 applies, the Male must apologize immediately for causing the misunderstanding.
8. The Female can change her mind at any time.
9. The Male must never change his mind without the express, written consent of The Female.
10. The Female has every right to be angry or upset at any time.
11. The Male must remain calm at all times, unless the Female wants him to be angry or upset.
12. The Female must, under no circumstances, let the Male know whether she wants him to be angry or upset.
13. The Male is expected to read the mind of the Female at all times.
14. At all times, what is important is what the Female meant, not what she said.
15. If the Male doesn't abide by THE RULES, it is because he can't take the heat, lacks backbone, and is a wimp.
16. If the Male, at any time, believes he is right, he must refer to Rule #5.
17. Every house belongs to the oldest female living there.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

11/29/2012 12:15:47 PM · #333

Originally posted by tanguera:

what we CAN do, what a LOT of us DO do, is to get back to why we're here in the first place: taking pictures, entering them in main or side challenges, vote and comment, get technical or emotional support, hang out with friends, and invite people interested in improving their photography to join us. NOTHING about that process has been changed, so why not continue to enjoy it while we can?

This is why we love you so!

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

11/29/2012 12:25:10 PM · #334

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Why some people think that just because *they* decide things "need to change" escapes me. What's here is what was here when they joined...

Originally posted by bohemka:
Jeb, would you mind speaking to my wife?

Dude......do I *really* have to explain THE RULES to you?

1. The Female always makes THE RULES.
2. THE RULES are subject to change without notice.
3. No Male can possible know all THE RULES.
4. If the Female suspects the Male knows all THE RULES, she must immediately change some of THE RULES
5. The Female is never wrong.
6. If it appears the Female is wrong, it is because of a flagrant misunderstanding caused by something the Male did or said wrong.
7. If Rule 6 applies, the Male must apologize immediately for causing the misunderstanding.
8. The Female can change her mind at any time.
9. The Male must never change his mind without the express, written consent of The Female.
10. The Female has every right to be angry or upset at any time.
11. The Male must remain calm at all times, unless the Female wants him to be angry or upset.
12. The Female must, under no circumstances, let the Male know whether she wants him to be angry or upset.
13. The Male is expected to read the mind of the Female at all times.
14. At all times, what is important is what the Female meant, not what she said.
15. If the Male doesn't abide by THE RULES, it is because he can't take the heat, lacks backbone, and is a wimp.
16. If the Male, at any time, believes he is right, he must refer to Rule #5.
17. Every house belongs to the oldest female living there.

Where's the "Like" button?! +1

Now I'm contemplating sharing this with my wife - hmmmm. Yes/No?

11/29/2012 12:27:16 PM · #335

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Why some people think that just because *they* decide things "need to change" escapes me. What's here is what was here when they joined...

Originally posted by bohemka:
Jeb, would you mind speaking to my wife?

Dude......do I *really* have to explain THE RULES to you?

1. The Female always makes THE RULES.
2. THE RULES are subject to change without notice.
3. No Male can possible know all THE RULES.
4. If the Female suspects the Male knows all THE RULES, she must immediately change some of THE RULES
5. The Female is never wrong.
6. If it appears the Female is wrong, it is because of a flagrant misunderstanding caused by something the Male did or said wrong.
7. If Rule 6 applies, the Male must apologize immediately for causing the misunderstanding.
8. The Female can change her mind at any time.
9. The Male must never change his mind without the express, written consent of The Female.
10. The Female has every right to be angry or upset at any time.
11. The Male must remain calm at all times, unless the Female wants him to be angry or upset.
12. The Female must, under no circumstances, let the Male know whether she wants him to be angry or upset.
13. The Male is expected to read the mind of the Female at all times.
14. At all times, what is important is what the Female meant, not what she said.
15. If the Male doesn't abide by THE RULES, it is because he can't take the heat, lacks backbone, and is a wimp.
16. If the Male, at any time, believes he is right, he must refer to Rule #5.
17. Every house belongs to the oldest female living there.

Where's the "Like" button?! +1

Now I'm contemplating sharing this with my wife - hmmmm. Yes/No?

I just sent it to my husband. though no response as of yet. lol
that's cause he knows I'm right. :P
and if not, he can refer to rule 5. ;)

11/29/2012 12:54:11 PM · #336

Originally posted by Denielle:

Denielle,

This is the exact opposite of what the site "needs", or could use. It's the people that make this site, that write the tutorials, that reply to threads with helpful suggestions, that enter challenges and vote. Drive away the popular vote and you're left with far fewer "resources". The bickering, I agree, is just ridiculous and gets nowhere. On the other hand, and constructive or not, it does show that certain folk are unhappy with the status quo. Note that although I haven't voiced my opinion on the matter, the graph that I've posted above does show a rather scary trend. There is no denying that DPC isn't quite "what it used to be", solely based on participation, (and before your time).

11/29/2012 01:06:38 PM · #337

Originally posted by Dudski:

Originally posted by Denielle:
sounds like there are quite a few people who just like to complain for the sake of complaining.
if you don't get out of the site what you WANT, then either a) leave, b) start your own site, or c) get over it and enjoy DPC for what it does offer.

seems simple enough for me.
I wouldn't mind seeing some of this bickering gone for good.

Denielle,

This is the exact opposite of what the site "needs", or could use. It's the people that make this site, that write the tutorials, that reply to threads with helpful suggestions, that enter challenges and vote. Drive away the popular vote and you're left with far fewer "resources". The bickering, I agree, is just ridiculous and gets nowhere. On the other hand, and constructive or not, it does show that certain folk are unhappy with the status quo. Note that although I haven't voiced my opinion on the matter, the graph that I've posted above does show a rather scary trend. There is no denying that DPC isn't quite "what it used to be", solely based on participation, (and before your time).

Edit to delete response

Message edited by author 2012-11-29 13:10:46.

11/29/2012 01:11:54 PM · #338

Damian, as you must know, numbers and statistics alone are meaningless. The very same numbers can be interpreted to support or contradict an argument. It's all about the spin, and I heartily encourage everyone to read this book so they'll be MUCH less easily manipulated by "statistics".

While the trend is certainly downward, it does not factor any external variables whatsoever, most importantly, the increasing proliferation of other online photo communities. The graph says nothing whatsoever about why participation is decreasing, only that it is. In fact, I think it's an extraordinary testament to the quality and format of DPC that it continues to live on in the face of so much (new, bells and whistles, all the "fun" stuff) competition. That many outstanding photographers who have left the fold, and are returning, underscores the FACT that there is no other site out there which offers what DPC does. WE are the participation. BE the participation.

11/29/2012 01:17:39 PM · #339

Originally posted by Denielle:

Edit to delete response

kinda liked your capital letters

11/29/2012 01:21:04 PM · #340

Originally posted by Dudski:

Originally posted by Denielle:
Edit to delete response

kinda liked your capital letters

LOL. <----- Better?

on a more serious note......

The problem here isn't what isn't being done by Langdon.
The problem lies within people being reactive instead of proactive.

This excerpt said it best:
what we CAN do, what a LOT of us DO do, is to get back to why we're here in the first place: taking pictures, entering them in main or side challenges, vote and comment, get technical or emotional support, hang out with friends, and invite people interested in improving their photography to join us. NOTHING about that process has been changed, so why not continue to enjoy it while we can?

11/29/2012 01:28:32 PM · #341

Originally posted by tanguera:

Excellent point.

Though I don't participate as much as certain others, I do very much like this site and would hate to see it go down. Going along the lines of what you wrote (and following up on what I had done), it would be interesting to attack this in a more logical fashion: present a graph or a fact, and then dissect it, or vote on it (for example), in order to determine its weight. For example, there has been some complaining about splling mistakes. Personally, I couldn't give a rat's behind if a contest says contast or contrast, as long as I get the point. Others, seemingly seem to care. Is this going to increase participation and keep people around?.. etc.

back to work!

Message edited by author 2012-11-29 13:29:41.

11/29/2012 02:07:12 PM · #342

Originally posted by Denielle:

Originally posted by Dudski:

Originally posted by Denielle:
Edit to delete response

kinda liked your capital letters

LOL. <----- Better?

on a more serious note......

The problem here isn't what isn't being done by Langdon.
The problem lies within people being reactive instead of proactive.

Indeed, better.

Here's an interesting "case study" if you will: myself. I'll keep this short, and I'll ask to refrain from any judgements since the point is just to show the "other side".

I participate in challenges and have loved how doing so has taken me out of my comfort zone time and time again. On the other hand, I'm of the reactive type that you speak of when it comes to this site. I don't give much input, write tutorials, rarely vote, etc. I won't go into details about this, because that is besides the point.

However, I have been paying $25 a year for the past 5 years or so in order to be able to take full advantage of this site. I trade my money for the labour that is put into this place - and so I feel that I have the right to be reactive because I am contributing in other ways. As I had previously mentioned, I have just renewed my membership, and traded more money for labour. I do so because I feel that this labour remains worth my money. On the other hand, and I think this is key in the discussion, that it seems as though others no longer do.

The point I'm obviously trying to make is that it isn't as simple as proactive vs. reactive for the simple reason that money is involved... and people like me.

Cheers

Message edited by author 2012-11-29 14:09:47.

11/29/2012 02:17:05 PM · #343

If you really think this is that important, I think it is of more value to look into our own history here, and find out if this misspelling epidemic is a recent development or something that has been part of DPC's "charm" since the beginning (which I'm pretty sure it has). If that constant remains relatively stable over the past 10 years, then it is the current crop of DPCers who take issue with it. If that is the case, then it would be interesting to find out what percent feel this is a final nail in DPC's coffin, and what percent could could give a rat's patootie. If the former is a very low number, it would indicate that the very few are spoiling the fun for the overwhelming majority.

The bottom line, here and now, is that DPC IS WHAT IT IS. I would like to add that there is not a business ANYWHERE that would stand up to the scrutiny currently being applied to DPC. Tempest in a teacup! Mountains out of molehills!! Step away from the keyboard and go take a picture, for heaven's sake!

11/29/2012 02:27:34 PM · #344

Originally posted by Dudski:

I have just renewed my membership, and traded more money for labour. I do so because I feel that this labour remains worth my money. On the other hand, and I think this is key in the discussion, that it seems as though others no longer do.

THIS is the ONLY point that matters, and applies to every business out there. As long as you feel you are getting your money's worth, nothing else matters. If you do NOT feel you are getting your money's worth, find a place that will. We can do here what we do in life, and that is to vote with our wallets.

Personally, in return for unlimited technical and artistic support, camaraderie, a chance to learn from and hang out with extraordinary artists, travel around the world from the comfort of home, be challenged and/or inspired photographically several times a week, learn about new editing and shooting techniques, talk shop, get encouragement and support both professionally and personally, and get honest feedback and so many other things, I think $0.07 a day is a steal. What other place do you hang out at on a daily basis that has not raised its prices in 10 years?

Message edited by author 2012-11-29 14:28:22.

bhuge

Canon EOS-550D Rebel T2i

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

11/29/2012 02:31:59 PM · #345

Originally posted by tanguera:

Originally posted by Dudski:
I have just renewed my membership, and traded more money for labour. I do so because I feel that this labour remains worth my money. On the other hand, and I think this is key in the discussion, that it seems as though others no longer do.

THIS is the ONLY point that matters, and applies to every business out there. As long as you feel you are getting your money's worth, nothing else matters. If you do NOT feel you are getting your money's worth, find a place that will. We can do here what we do in life, and that is to vote with our wallets.

Personally, in return for unlimited technical and artistic support, camaraderie, a chance to learn from and hang out with extraordinary artists, travel around the world from the comfort of home, be challenged and/or inspired photographically several times a week, learn about new editing and shooting techniques, talk shop, get encouragement and support both professionally and personally, and get honest feedback and so many other things, I think $0.07 a day is a steal. What other place do you hang out at on a daily basis that has not raised its prices in 10 years?

+10 billion

Especially the honest feedback part. That is almost impossible to get anywhere on the web. Sure some comments do not have much content, but overall the feedback here is amazing.

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

11/29/2012 02:35:40 PM · #346

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by tanguera:

Originally posted by Dudski:
I have just renewed my membership, and traded more money for labour. I do so because I feel that this labour remains worth my money. On the other hand, and I think this is key in the discussion, that it seems as though others no longer do.

THIS is the ONLY point that matters, and applies to every business out there. As long as you feel you are getting your money's worth, nothing else matters. If you do NOT feel you are getting your money's worth, find a place that will. We can do here what we do in life, and that is to vote with our wallets.

Personally, in return for unlimited technical and artistic support, camaraderie, a chance to learn from and hang out with extraordinary artists, travel around the world from the comfort of home, be challenged and/or inspired photographically several times a week, learn about new editing and shooting techniques, talk shop, get encouragement and support both professionally and personally, and get honest feedback and so many other things, I think $0.07 a day is a steal. What other place do you hang out at on a daily basis that has not raised its prices in 10 years?

+10 billion

Especially the honest feedback part. That is almost impossible to get anywhere on the web. Sure some comments do not have much content, but overall the feedback here is amazing.

In fact, I have to add that THIS particular business allows you to participate FOR FREE. We get an option to pay to play (more toys) or JUST PLAY without spending a penny.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

11/29/2012 02:35:42 PM · #347

Originally posted by bhuge:

Personally, I feel this comment is pretty complete. But I think it more that just "some" comments that don't have much content. Actually most comments don't have much content, but they're fun anyway.

So I give your comment a 7.

Oh.... wait...

You weren't wanting feedback on this comment?

my bad... :)

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

11/29/2012 02:36:12 PM · #348

Originally posted by tanguera:

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by tanguera:

Originally posted by Dudski:
I have just renewed my membership, and traded more money for labour. I do so because I feel that this labour remains worth my money. On the other hand, and I think this is key in the discussion, that it seems as though others no longer do.

THIS is the ONLY point that matters, and applies to every business out there. As long as you feel you are getting your money's worth, nothing else matters. If you do NOT feel you are getting your money's worth, find a place that will. We can do here what we do in life, and that is to vote with our wallets.

Personally, in return for unlimited technical and artistic support, camaraderie, a chance to learn from and hang out with extraordinary artists, travel around the world from the comfort of home, be challenged and/or inspired photographically several times a week, learn about new editing and shooting techniques, talk shop, get encouragement and support both professionally and personally, and get honest feedback and so many other things, I think $0.07 a day is a steal. What other place do you hang out at on a daily basis that has not raised its prices in 10 years?

+10 billion

Especially the honest feedback part. That is almost impossible to get anywhere on the web. Sure some comments do not have much content, but overall the feedback here is amazing.

In fact, I have to add that THIS particular business allows you to participate FOR FREE. We get an option to pay to play (more toys) or JUST PLAY without spending a penny.

Don't tell my husband that. I even bought the extra space!

11/29/2012 02:37:55 PM · #349

Originally posted by vawendy:

I think it more that just "some" comments that don't have much content. Actually most comments don't have much content, but they're fun anyway.

AFAIK, every time someone has wanted feedback on a particular image, they have received it.