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10/19/2012 03:18:20 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Venser: Originally posted by LydiaToo: As part of parent training, you may learn how to:
-Give effective timeouts
-Avoid power struggles
-Remain calm and unemotional in the face of opposition, or take your own timeout, if necessary
-Recognize and praise your child's good behaviors and positive characteristics
-Offer acceptable choices to your child, giving him or her a certain amount of control
-Establish a schedule for the family that includes specific meals that will be eaten at home together, and specific activities one or both parents will do with the child
-Limit consequences to those that can be consistently reinforced and if possible, last for a limited amount of time
-Although some parent management techniques may seem like common sense, learning to use them in the face of opposition isn't easy, especially if there are other stressors at home. Learning these skills will require consistent practice and patience.
-Most important in treatment is for you to show consistent, unconditional love and acceptance of your child — even during difficult and disruptive situations. Don't be too hard on yourself. This process can be tough for even the most patient parents. |
WTF?
My favorite, -Avoid power struggles. I'm sure most of the older generation had a power struggle with a parent.
Here's how mine went.
1 - Show defiance.
2 - Backhand from dad.
3 - Now obedient, and I'd think long and hard before the next act of defiance. |
That's good for a nickel to a dime in state. |
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10/19/2012 08:17:45 PM · #27 |
About 17 years ago, the middle child and I had a "power struggle". He threatened to call child protective services, if I so much as touched him.
I offered to dial.
He wound up seeing things my way. And yes, he got touched a bit.
We did not have to revisit that particular topic. Amazingly we get along to this day, he is not dysfunctional, and very creative. Imagine that.
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10/19/2012 08:44:33 PM · #28 |
I'm guessing your relationship is healthy and strong. And that he respects you and loves you, ambaker.
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10/19/2012 08:47:13 PM · #29 |
There was an interesting "study" about children long ago.
They put some children in a large open place and told them to play. They huddled in the middle and played.
Then, they put some children in a large open place... with a fence around the border.
The children played all over the place! In the middle, out to the edges, and in between.
It seems that children like to know where the "boundaries" are. They'll push until they find them.
Make certain they know where the boundaries are so... they will feel safe.
Limits make them feel like someone is taking care of them. They feel safe.
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10/20/2012 12:46:30 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by LydiaToo: There was an interesting "study" about children long ago.
They put some children in a large open place and told them to play. They huddled in the middle and played.
Then, they put some children in a large open place... with a fence around the border.
The children played all over the place! In the middle, out to the edges, and in between.
It seems that children like to know where the "boundaries" are. They'll push until they find them.
Make certain they know where the boundaries are so... they will feel safe.
Limits make them feel like someone is taking care of them. They feel safe. |
That is fascinating. You don't by chance remember where you read the study? I'd love to read it. |
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10/20/2012 02:58:15 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by bhuge: Originally posted by LydiaToo: There was an interesting "study" about children long ago.
They put some children in a large open place and told them to play. They huddled in the middle and played.
Then, they put some children in a large open place... with a fence around the border.
The children played all over the place! In the middle, out to the edges, and in between.
It seems that children like to know where the "boundaries" are. They'll push until they find them.
Make certain they know where the boundaries are so... they will feel safe.
Limits make them feel like someone is taking care of them. They feel safe. |
That is fascinating. You don't by chance remember where you read the study? I'd love to read it. |
I can find tons of references to this "study", but I can't actually find the study itself. Regardless, it's often cited as evidence that children need boundaries; here's one example.
Here's an interesting anecdote, perhaps apocryphal, about Samuel Taylor Coleridge, the great poet:
Originally posted by anecdote: The poet Coleridge was visited by a man who had a theory about raising children. He stated, “I believe children should be given a free rein to think and act and thus learn at an early age to make their own decisions. This is the only way they can grow into their full potential.†Coleridge made no comment but simply led the man to his garden. “Come see my flower garden,†he said. The opinionated visitor took one look at the overgrown garden and remarked, “Why, that’s nothing but a yard full of weeds.†The wise poet declared, “It used to be filled with roses, but this year I thought I’d let the garden grow as it willed without tending to it. This is the result.†|
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10/20/2012 03:21:00 PM · #32 |
i was away all week and the first time saw this little girl ever was on a tv in a restaurant i went to for lunch. i think it was TMZ tv but anyway she was stuffing her face with chicken nuggets and a milkshake while being interviewed.
I never knew who she was before and I cant wait to forget.
Message edited by author 2012-10-20 15:21:06. |
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10/20/2012 08:02:42 PM · #33 |
Since most of you have posted what I wanted to post, I have no more to say, but that
I do not believe In "ADHD" |
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10/20/2012 08:32:05 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Neat: Since most of you have posted what I wanted to post, I have no more to say, but that
I do not believe In "ADHD" |
Unfortunately, it really does exist.
I know more about ADD than ADHD. I'm not sure I believe the hyper part, but ADD -- definitely.
Many adults have it, as well. How many adults can't really function well without their coffee -- some really do need it, it's not just a saying. That's what most of the medications are -- a stimulant that helps ADD sufferers focus.
Dyslexics have a higher tendency to be ADD.
It's easy to say that parents aren't parenting. It's easy to say that teachers aren't controlling a class, that classrooms are overcrowded. But until you've seen the children struggling to get through school, needing a volunteer watching them, pointing to the test every 2-3 minutes to get their attention back on the test, until you've talked to teachers who have seen miraculous differences in a child, simply because they're on a stimulant, I think maybe you need to look a little closer at the facts.
Is it over diagnosed? yes.
Does it exist? yes.
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10/20/2012 08:42:37 PM · #35 |
Trust me, I have a child with ADHD.... there were things, starting at a young age, that she just couldn't grasp... The color RED for example.... how do you define it... how do you explain it... what is it?
And the teachers.... calling her name again and again and again and again.... NOT a good thing for a child who wants friends to always be called out constantly in class. Low self esteem? Oh you haven't seen anything like it.
So you think I was a bad parent? I didn't set limits? The school didn't work to try and include her? Either you people are just naive or you can shuff it off to some other diagnosis. Sorry. We worked extremely hard to get her to where she is today and she is so much better an adult thanks to the diagnosis and proper handling of the behavior.
You don't believe in attention deficit disorder? You have no idea what you're talking about. Not everybody is perfect.
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10/20/2012 09:06:34 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by vawendy: Originally posted by Neat: Since most of you have posted what I wanted to post, I have no more to say, but that
I do not believe In "ADHD" |
Unfortunately, it really does exist.
I know more about ADD than ADHD. I'm not sure I believe the hyper part, but ADD -- definitely.
Many adults have it, as well. How many adults can't really function well without their coffee -- some really do need it, it's not just a saying. That's what most of the medications are -- a stimulant that helps ADD sufferers focus.
Dyslexics have a higher tendency to be ADD.
It's easy to say that parents aren't parenting. It's easy to say that teachers aren't controlling a class, that classrooms are overcrowded. But until you've seen the children struggling to get through school, needing a volunteer watching them, pointing to the test every 2-3 minutes to get their attention back on the test, until you've talked to teachers who have seen miraculous differences in a child, simply because they're on a stimulant, I think maybe you need to look a little closer at the facts.
Is it over diagnosed? yes.
Does it exist? yes. |
Yes, it most certainly exists. And the hyper part is just as hard to deal with. Ever have a 3 or 4 year old child go days at a time without sleeping? Ever see a 5 year old with bags so big under their eyes they look like little old men? My husband has it, and so does my son. People can believe what they want. But until you've walked in the shoes of a parent with an ADHD child, stop judging. I stayed out of this thread until now because it's very hurtful to read the things posted here. I think enough is enough. I believe there used to be people that didn't believe epilepsy was real either. Maybe some people should go get their doctorate degrees before they chime in. |
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10/20/2012 09:08:07 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Neat: Since most of you have posted what I wanted to post, I have no more to say, but that
I do not believe In "ADHD" |
That's like saying I don't believe in cancer. |
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10/20/2012 09:18:26 PM · #38 |
That's like saying that Down Syndrome doesn't exist.
My youngest son was diagnosed as ADD/ADHD (~1990) and was put on medication. It was a tremendous blessing for him, his teachers, fellow students, and us. A very smart young man if you could keep him on track and in his seat (homework). Many teachers worked with us and helped to also keep the feeling of inundation away from him, it worked. He chose to remove himself from medication at the age of 14 and we never looked back. The medication reduction/elimination was supported by the doctor. He is now 27 and a productive member of society.
I do agree that just because a child is active do not medicate for ease of life. His older brother never had a problem.
Over diagnosed, many are!
eta: When I say productive member of society; Former Marine as a Russian Linguist and now a current ANG member.
Message edited by author 2012-10-20 21:24:29. |
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10/20/2012 09:58:14 PM · #39 |
Regarding ADD/ADHD and any other psychological condition, I am going to trust the advice of psychologists with years of education, and many years of experience above anyone who posts in an internet forum on a photography site.
With all due respect to anyone who posted about how ADHD is a 'make believe' condition, few of us are qualified to give medical advice.
This reminds me of the vaccine fears and autism. More people listened to Jenny McCarthy than to the scientists who actually studied autism and vaccines, even though Jenny McCarthy has zero qualifications in the medical field. |
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10/20/2012 09:58:23 PM · #40 |
Wow, we've avoided /rant this far? |
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10/20/2012 10:03:44 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Spork99: Originally posted by Neat: Since most of you have posted what I wanted to post, I have no more to say, but that
I do not believe In "ADHD" |
That's like saying I don't believe in cancer. |
Ok I wish you all the best really, maybe I should of re-phrased the above to, I don't believe in medicating children, there is a cause for every effect, doctors mainly want to deal with the effect and not the cause that's the way the world works. I like to deal with the cause, and then work out a solution.
See I knew I should of kept out of this thread, anyway seriously, either way whatever works for you, all the best, I meant no harm.
But if there was a crusade I could push, it would be to stop 'drugging our children' that's just a quick fix solution....that's it!
Message edited by author 2012-10-20 22:05:28. |
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10/20/2012 10:07:19 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by Neat: Originally posted by Spork99: Originally posted by Neat: Since most of you have posted what I wanted to post, I have no more to say, but that
I do not believe In "ADHD" |
That's like saying I don't believe in cancer. |
Ok I wish you all the best really, maybe I should of re-phrased the above to, I don't believe in medicating children, there is a cause for every effect, doctors mainly want to deal with the effect and not the cause that's the way the world works. I like to deal with the cause, and then work out a solution.
See I knew I should of kept out of this thread, anyway seriously, either way whatever works for you, all the best, I meant no harm.
But if there was a crusade I could push, it would be to stop 'drugging our children' that's just a quick fix solution....that's it! |
There is also a big difference between 20 years ago and today. I agree that medication is the answer to everything today. That includes all folks, including our seniors. I really wonder when they take 15 pills a day how many are to counteract some of what they are taking.
Message edited by author 2012-10-20 22:09:20. |
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10/20/2012 10:13:28 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by VitaminB: Regarding ADD/ADHD and any other psychological condition, I am going to trust the advice of psychologists with years of education, and many years of experience above anyone who posts in an internet forum on a photography site.
With all due respect to anyone who posted about how ADHD is a 'make believe' condition, few of us are qualified to give medical advice.
This reminds me of the vaccine fears and autism. More people listened to Jenny McCarthy than to the scientists who actually studied autism and vaccines, even though Jenny McCarthy has zero qualifications in the medical field. |
And some people who are "qualified" aren't qualified either. I'm not in the camp that says ADHD isn't real, but I wouldn't go so far as to blindly trust doctors simply because they have a degree. This is probably what people are getting so upset about, and why some people don't believe ADHD is real, because they are constantly encountering people/children who are diagnosed with it and don't actually have it. There is a huge difference between a kid with ADHD and a kid who just has the wiggles. Doctors, despite their credentials are still human and subject to the same ability to be lazy, arrogant, greedy, and have lapses in judgement just like anyone else.
I did study psychology in school and still do to this day on my own and even a cursory glance at the past and present of the profession would remind us all to have a healthy heaping of scepticism.
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10/21/2012 12:03:00 AM · #44 |
I think ADD and ADHD are real, but there is also a tendency for it to be thrown out as a default diagnosis anytime a child has behavior issues.
You might find this to be relevant and interesting, A teen who didn't like taking drugs for it found exercise to keep his condition controlled: Riding is my ritalin
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10/21/2012 05:03:33 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff: I think ADD and ADHD are real, but there is also a tendency for it to be thrown out as a default diagnosis anytime a child has behavior issues.
You might find this to be relevant and interesting, A teen who didn't like taking drugs for it found exercise to keep his condition controlled: Riding is my ritalin |
The brain, as with the body, is capable of massive changes with the right exercises, but we'd rather take "diet pills" so to speak. The diet pill craze served us well no?
The sad part is I'm sure more people WOULD be willing to do the exercises if A. The information was more widely available and B. Seemed more affordable than pills. The reality is that mental training can be free, but finding the right things to do, and then having the follow through to do them takes a lot of work.
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10/21/2012 11:35:58 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by escapetooz: The brain, as with the body, is capable of massive changes with the right exercises, but we'd rather take "diet pills" so to speak. |
I'm not a believer in just taking a pill for everything. I do use them when needed, but there are many conditions that can be handled without drugs and their potential side effects. I guess doctors get used to patients who just want a pill for everything, and the drug companies must be an influence as well.
When the doc told me how high my blood pressure was a couple of years ago, she just prescribed some BP meds and I never got the stern "excercise and lose weight" lecture I expected. I handled that myself because I didn't want to take the pills. I was on two meds for a while, one didn't do much and one was very effective at getting my BP down. The one that was effective she took me off of in February after my cycling, diet changes and weight loss got it down to reasonable levels. When my last set of results came in from a recent follow up blood test, everything was normal. My wife went over and kissed Celeste (my bicycle).
Maybe sporting goods makers should start marketing via the medical trade. Your medical insurance could cover part of the cost of a pair of running shoes or a bike. Yes, Nike and Trek would like that. Never happen, though.
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10/21/2012 12:16:11 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff: Originally posted by escapetooz: The brain, as with the body, is capable of massive changes with the right exercises, but we'd rather take "diet pills" so to speak. |
I'm not a believer in just taking a pill for everything. I do use them when needed, but there are many conditions that can be handled without drugs and their potential side effects. I guess doctors get used to patients who just want a pill for everything, and the drug companies must be an influence as well.
When the doc told me how high my blood pressure was a couple of years ago, she just prescribed some BP meds and I never got the stern "excercise and lose weight" lecture I expected. I handled that myself because I didn't want to take the pills. I was on two meds for a while, one didn't do much and one was very effective at getting my BP down. The one that was effective she took me off of in February after my cycling, diet changes and weight loss got it down to reasonable levels. When my last set of results came in from a recent follow up blood test, everything was normal. My wife went over and kissed Celeste (my bicycle).
Maybe sporting goods makers should start marketing via the medical trade. Your medical insurance could cover part of the cost of a pair of running shoes or a bike. Yes, Nike and Trek would like that. Never happen, though. |
That is a wonderful story. Kudos! |
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10/21/2012 12:44:53 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff: Originally posted by escapetooz: The brain, as with the body, is capable of massive changes with the right exercises, but we'd rather take "diet pills" so to speak. |
I'm not a believer in just taking a pill for everything. I do use them when needed, but there are many conditions that can be handled without drugs and their potential side effects. I guess doctors get used to patients who just want a pill for everything, and the drug companies must be an influence as well.
When the doc told me how high my blood pressure was a couple of years ago, she just prescribed some BP meds and I never got the stern "excercise and lose weight" lecture I expected. I handled that myself because I didn't want to take the pills. I was on two meds for a while, one didn't do much and one was very effective at getting my BP down. The one that was effective she took me off of in February after my cycling, diet changes and weight loss got it down to reasonable levels. When my last set of results came in from a recent follow up blood test, everything was normal. My wife went over and kissed Celeste (my bicycle).
Maybe sporting goods makers should start marketing via the medical trade. Your medical insurance could cover part of the cost of a pair of running shoes or a bike. Yes, Nike and Trek would like that. Never happen, though. |
thats great. i have two family members who have had heart attacks and would rather just take pills than change their lifestyle.
i also work with a guy who is on all sorts of pills. he spent two full months in the hospital with a fever that no one could diagnose, just so happened a random doctor happened to stumble across his chart and happened to have another patient with a similar condition in the past and he determined it was a side effect being on two separate drugs.
i don't doubt that adhd is a real thing, and im sure lost sof people really need medication for it but i also don't doubt that its way over diagnosed, either. we live in a society where we can take a pill to fix almost anything, instead of fixing the real problems that possibly cause it in the first place.
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10/21/2012 12:55:49 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff: When the doc told me how high my blood pressure was a couple of years ago, she just prescribed some BP meds and I never got the stern "excercise and lose weight" lecture I expected. |
That's probably because you insurance company won't pay for the doctor to talk to you about preventive health measures, even if s/he had more than the 10-15 minutes alloted for your "care" ... our idiotic non-system of health care often requires practitioners to take shortcuts like this to remain solvent.
Another factor in the current situation is the long tradition of "patients" demanding a pill for something, even when inappropriate (e.g. antibiotics for viral infections). |
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10/21/2012 04:56:09 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by GeneralE: Originally posted by Yo_Spiff: When the doc told me how high my blood pressure was a couple of years ago, she just prescribed some BP meds and I never got the stern "excercise and lose weight" lecture I expected. |
That's probably because you insurance company won't pay for the doctor to talk to you about preventive health measures, even if s/he had more than the 10-15 minutes alloted for your "care" ... our idiotic non-system of health care often requires practitioners to take shortcuts like this to remain solvent.
Another factor in the current situation is the long tradition of "patients" demanding a pill for something, even when inappropriate (e.g. antibiotics for viral infections). |
Actually in recent years insurance companies have begun preaching preventitave care because it saves them money not having to pay for pills and expensive treatments.
My company, for one, runs sponsered monthly newsletters and contests trying to promote healthier lifestyles. |
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