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08/15/2012 02:27:11 PM · #26 |
I think it's a good comment and he's right, with all the experience in the world you wouldn't have gotten the shot with a 50mm
Good gear certainly helps I get much better pictures with my 5d mk11 and sigma 50 1.4 in dark situations than I do with my 20d and efs 5.6 lens
But it's a combo I still get good shots with my 20d buts it's harder
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08/15/2012 08:27:09 PM · #27 |
Well, the fact remains that some people think that great photography flows from luck and superior equipment. If that were true, then the wealthiest people, who are also extremely lucky, would be the best photographers. I don't think that's how it works. But, I don't know much these days.
Everyday, in my gallery, I hear people say, "You must have a really good camera and lens." or "You were really lucky to be in the right place at the right time." Yes, that daily interface with the public and constant humiliation grates on my nerves. It comes with daily contact with the retail buyer. So, I am sensitive to comments on my DPC images that ignore the attributes of the image and insinuate that the image is good in part to skill, but mostly to luck and equipment. The words are "code" to me that the amateur has no respect for the professional success. It's as if, "had the critic had my equipment and my opportunities, then they could have equalled or exceeded my effort". It's the losers' lament.
That said, my image in the simile challenge did very poorly. So the losers' lament may be my own. |
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08/15/2012 08:35:46 PM · #28 |
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08/15/2012 08:40:47 PM · #29 |
I used to get into discussions on how it is all about the vision, the photographer, planning, composition, editing - camera is just a tool!
Now I just tell them, all you need is decent camera, a nice lens because thats all they want to hear after all - some people decide to buy the camera (latest and greatest) and find out the hard way and I sound modest - outcome, it increases online options of good cheap used gear for sale - more for all of us :)
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08/15/2012 08:56:59 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Well, the fact remains that some people think that great photography flows from luck and superior equipment. If that were true, then the wealthiest people, who are also extremely lucky, would be the best photographers. I don't think that's how it works. But, I don't know much these days. |
I agree with you here, but I don't see that to is what this commenter was offering. Did this picture take some patience? Was any luck involved? Could you have accomplished this with a 50mm? Or was this shot complete and total skill with absolutely nothing in play? Listen, I respect your work very highly. I believe you are one of the best wildlife photographers on this site. But to deny that luck and/or superior equipment have no bearing at all is maybe a tad arrogant. Yes, skill is primary, and you have that in spades, but this person was not making small of that at all. Though I am sure that others have on other images or in other forums. I get that myself at times.
Originally posted by hahn23:
That said, my image in the simile challenge did very poorly. So the losers' lament may be my own. |
5.9 is not very poorly. It's not phenomenal but it's better than your average. And really it isn't your best work. Nice shot and all but not nearly as captivating or engaging as much of your other work. Sometimes it is hard to have a rational eye with our own work. I have gone through periods in my dpc life where I have been angered by scores and felt the voters were losers, but looking back on many of those images now, well removed from the emotion of the challenge and the fresh picture, it's hard to argue with most of the votes and scores.
And ultimately, why take what some virtual person says so seriously? Dude, you have a gallery where you show and sell your work? How crazy cool is that? So a bunch of people online at a photo challenge site score your image low and you don't get a coveted gif. You show and sell your work in a gallery! You get to spend all of your time (I guess at least most of your time) wandering in God's great creation capturing images of amazing creatures in their element. And then you sell them! Give me nothing but high fours in each and every challenge from here on out if I can have that as my gig on the side. |
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08/15/2012 09:21:13 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by timfythetoo:
... but this person was not making small of that at all. ... |
Hey, I have no quarrel with you or any commenter. I was NOT trying to embarrass or expose anyone. I apologize to anyone who I may have inadvertantly offended. My purpose in starting the thread was to make the point that some commenters focus on their perception of image quality being mostly related to quality equipment and luck, with little acknowledgement of skill, experience and effort. It takes a holistic approach to be a pro. In general, comments at DPC are encouraged to the nth degree. My "helpful" rate on comments offered on my images is 97%. A feedback loop on comments would be educational and instructive. But, there is such "fear" of suppressing comments that ALL comments are elevated to sancrosanct status.
There was a time period when 100% comments on a challenge were rewarded with badges... available to be placed on the profile page of members and users. For a while this caused a frenzy of robo-comments. It was not the finest hour of commenting at DPC. |
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08/15/2012 09:21:14 PM · #32 |
double post
Message edited by author 2012-08-15 21:21:39. |
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08/15/2012 10:43:33 PM · #33 |
Thank you for that, there is a shortage of snarky humor that truly hits the mark. Nice find.
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08/15/2012 11:12:47 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
So, I am sensitive to comments on my DPC images that ignore the attributes of the image and insinuate that the image is good in part to skill, but mostly to luck and equipment. |
Don't let negative comments get to you Hahn (not that I think this was particularly negative). If someone took the time to comment like that on an image it obviously touched them in some way and made a strong connection. That kind of thoughtful comment should only be appreciated. Not sure why you're sensitive to any comments. Maybe the comment as a whole was just a bad example of what you were trying to say, but you obviously know you've got talent and aren't afraid to say so.
This thread seems to restate the need for an "I want critical comments / I want only nice comments" option. Does it not? |
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08/15/2012 11:20:59 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Thank you for that, there is a shortage of snarky humor that truly hits the mark. Nice find. |
Thanks from me too, I enjoyed the link very much ;) |
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08/15/2012 11:23:23 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by LydiaToo:
Throughout the years, when folks have said to me, "I love your photos! I need to get a camera like yours..."
I've sometimes replied (depending on whether I didn't mind offending... LOL!), "Yes, it's just like me coming to your house and enjoying a fabulous meal that you've cooked and telling you, 'That was DELICIOUS! What kind of stove do you have?'"
Yeah. Sometimes I'm obnoxious. *grin* |
I usually just chuckle and tell them they really should... |
I have to admit that one friend of mine told me that she needed to get a camera like mine... ONE TOO MANY TIMES.
So, the next time she and her kids came over for an event, she asked if I were going to take photos. I said, "No, I'm tired, but you're welcome to take photos with my camera, if you like..."
She said she was excited about it and thrilled to take photos of the event.
I handed her my camera, set on Manual, and enjoyed my day with the kids.
I gave her a CD of every one of her images.
She commented afterward that none of her images looked like mine. "They weren't even in focus..."
She's never mentioned getting a camera "like mine" again.
Snarky? Maybe. Yeah.
But, I really just HAD to do it... *grin*
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08/15/2012 11:26:12 PM · #37 |
| Setting it on manual was a low blow, but I like it! |
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08/15/2012 11:33:40 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Originally posted by hahn23:
So, I am sensitive to comments on my DPC images that ignore the attributes of the image and insinuate that the image is good in part to skill, but mostly to luck and equipment. |
Don't let negative comments get to you Hahn (not that I think this was particularly negative). If someone took the time to comment like that on an image it obviously touched them in some way and made a strong connection. That kind of thoughtful comment should only be appreciated. Not sure why you're sensitive to any comments. Maybe the comment as a whole was just a bad example of what you were trying to say, but you obviously know you've got talent and aren't afraid to say so.
This thread seems to restate the need for an "I want critical comments / I want only nice comments" option. Does it not? |
Well, my final comment is I don't agree with those who think that image success is simply a matter of spending a lot of money on equipment and then getting "lucky". Otherwise, all comments are valuable feedback. My "helpful" rate on comments offered on my images is 97%. |
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08/16/2012 12:03:45 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Well, my final comment is I don't agree with those who think that image success is simply a matter of spending a lot of money on equipment and then getting "lucky". Otherwise, all comments are valuable feedback. My "helpful" rate on comments offered on my images is 97%. |
Unless a comment is actually really NOT trying to help me/give me advice about my image, then I mark it as helpful. (for example, a political comment on an image instead of a critique of the image itself)
I appreciate anyone taking their time (that they can never get back) to comment on my image.
I listen to all comments with an open mind.
I can hear "what I want to hear" from my family and friends.
I hear "what I NEED to hear" here.
:D
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08/16/2012 02:45:32 AM · #40 |
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08/16/2012 05:49:15 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Well, my final comment is I don't agree with those who think that image success is simply a matter of spending a lot of money on equipment and then getting "lucky". Otherwise, all comments are valuable feedback. |
...and having reviewed the submissions made here, I can't say that I agree with your views in this instance since this is NOT what I read in the initial comment you referred to.
You were a tad selective in your submission and read in its totality the intent of the comment is not that which you would have us believe.
I guess we simply see things differently.
Ray |
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08/16/2012 06:29:34 AM · #42 |
i've felt, pretty much since i got involved here, that making comments was more useful for the comment giver than the receiver. it's so fricken hard to get comments during the challenge that it's pretty much a waste of time to hope that you'll improve your photography by getting comments.
on the other hand, there are a bazillion photos here to view and study. one can actually develop their ability to see images and capture better images by taking the time to comment and learning to comment.
it would be nice if the commenter had the option of making comments on photos without anyone ever seeing the comments ;-) (the only purpose here would to be able easily collect one's comments through the site, without having to maintain them in a separate document.)
and if my wife would let me, i'd buy this baby! |
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08/16/2012 09:29:18 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Thank you for that, there is a shortage of snarky humor that truly hits the mark. Nice find. |
Thanks from me too, I enjoyed the link very much ;) |
reminds me of this Hipster traps |
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08/16/2012 03:15:53 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Skip:
it would be nice if the commenter had the option of making comments on photos without anyone ever seeing the comments ;-) |
No. Whilst I fully agree with your reasoning, I think it is quite funny sometimes to see the pride of very talented photographers hurt by a quite accurate comment.
Come on Richard, you might want to try that panning shot with a longer shutter time ;-)
Message edited by author 2012-08-16 15:20:20. |
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08/16/2012 04:22:49 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Everyday, in my gallery, I hear people say, "You must have a really good camera and lens." or "You were really lucky to be in the right place at the right time." Yes, that daily interface with the public and constant humiliation grates on my nerves. |
What humiliation, Richard? That these people don't know any better is no reflection on your abilities as a photographer. It simply accentuates their ignorance.
I do credit luck with helping greatly on many of my images, but I also feel it was on me to take advantage of it, and make the best possible use of it.
My second highest score ever, and I wasn't even going to enter the challenge. But when I saw Lenny buried in the guts of this tractor, I ran and grabbed my camera as fast as I could.
Oh, yeah.......I couldn't have done it without my new D7000. How about a blue ribbon at 1000 ISO, huh? LOL!!!
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