Am I right to complain? - DPChallenge Forums

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

07/25/2012 12:31:23 PM · #1

Here's the story, be honest about what you think:

My wife and I decided to go to Thailand this summer. I decided I didn't want to bring my DSLR camera. I wanted a nice compact camera that could take good pictures and have good manual controls. It was a draw between the Panasonic GF5 and Fujifilm X10. However, after hearing pitches for both cameras by the large electronics store's clerks working for their respective sections, the guy at the Fujifilm section said that I'd probably be better off with the new Sony RX 100.

I left that day and did more research at home. I decided I wanted that one for both the picture quality AND the video quality.

My second trip to the large electronics store's I brought an SD card and decided I would take pictures with all 3 cameras (I actually included the Panasonic LX5). While taking pictures with the Sony, I asked my first important question "How do I switch this to the English menu?" The Sony guy answered "Unfortunately, Sony has a bad reputation of NOT making their cameras ready for different languages right off the bat. However, NEXT WEEK the international/overseas version will be released. It will also cost 130USD more."

It took me a few days to figure out whether I wanted to spend that kind of money. I decided to go for it after looking at the pictures I had taken. When I went in I asked about when exactly the international/overseas version would be released. The person in charge of the compact camera section said Saturday (July 21st). He said I should put my name down because they would only be getting a few models in. This is where I asked my second important question "Will the international/overseas version be in NTSC or PAL when it comes to the video output?" At first he was confused and said "This is a stills camera, not a video camera." I had to pull out the specs and show him what I meant and give him a quick rundown on the differences. He said he would have to check and asked me to wait. After 15 minutes of waiting (And taking more pictures) he came back and said "It will be the same as Japan, NTSC.". I'm not sure who he checked with, but he's in charge so I believed him. I gave him my card, reserved the camera and picked it up Saturday with a couple of other items.

Saturday to Wednesday I was way too busy to open the box and mess around with things. Wednesday afternoon I decided to open things up and bring it with me to a beer garden party to get some practice in with the camera. Long story short, the video was in PAL (50p). I went through all the instructions and online to see if there was a way to switch it (Some cameras do) but there was no way. I called the large electronics store's and asked them why I had this camera and not the camera I ordered. The answer was "Let me call you back after I do some checking." Followed by a call back "All international/overseas versions of this camera are PAL."

Now I'm kind of pissed. I'm 10 days away from my vacation, I've gone through the online manual trying to figure things out before even opening the box...I've pretty much got my heart set on using this camera for a long time. Now I'm being told "There is no 60p version in Japan. At least not now or through us." I love photography but cinematography is also a passion of mine. It's important enough for me that I would ask about this feature.

I said I would go in tomorrow (Today as it's 1am). My wife, friends and cameraman co-workers all believe that either the large electronics store's made a mistake or the rep from Sony made a mistake and that it is now up to them to make up for the mistake. I plan on going in and saying, in short "I would like a 60p English version before my trip to Thailand. Nothing more, nothing less. If that's not cool with you or Sony, I'll have to take this to the Customer Service Center of Osaka Japan to see what they say."

If Sony gave the large electronics store's the wrong info I believe it is up to Sony to correct the mistake. If the the large electronics store's clerk just half-assed checked then it's up to the store to correct the mistake. By correcting the mistake I'm not talking about just a refund...I want what I ordered. I made the effort to make sure I could get a camera in ENGLISH. I made the effort to ask whether it was in 60p or 50p. I did my part to make sure I would get what I asked for. It's now on them to come through.

From the short phone conversation I had with the clerk in charge at the time, he suggested I trade my camera in for something else...I was a tad pissed at this attitude. I was promised something I didn't get. This isn't chump change. The RX 100 is a 730USD compact camera. It's an investment. To be told to settle for something less, at this point, pisses me off. Of course, the beer and whiskey could have added to my anger a bit. Tomorrow we'll see if they do the right thing or not...but I'm still interested in hearing what others have to say.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

07/25/2012 12:41:03 PM · #2

yes, you are right to complain.

cryan

Nikon D700

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX DG Macro for Nikon

07/25/2012 12:48:23 PM · #3

I'd be there whenthe store opens and complaining as loudly as I could. You have a very rightious beef.

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

07/25/2012 12:55:30 PM · #4

Play the big foreigner...

Really though, the clerk almost certainly half-assed the check, and you are right to expect satisfaction...

My only advice is to recognize that your real goal is to have the best possible solution in hand as soon as possible... If you find that you are asking for the impossible, redirect yourself as quickly as you can, otherwise you're just aggravating yourself without any real chance of success.

-CB

Neil

Fujifilm X-T30

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

07/25/2012 01:02:10 PM · #5

If I understand you, it's not that you don't have the right camera, but they were wrong about the feature.

You are right to be mad, but the store can't change the camera features, and if the feature doesn't exist, Sony is unlikely to implement it just for you, or even if they plan to implement it, they are unlikely to speed things up for your schedule.

So it seems that your only real choice is a refund/exchange. You can't really expect any more from the store (other than perhaps an apology, and maybe even a discount on another camera).

Marketing/Sales people are sometimes wrong, sometimes untruthful, and sometimes both!

07/25/2012 01:20:46 PM · #6

The feature is available. It's the American/Canadian NTSC version. I've got the European PAL version. There is no implementing a new feature just for me. It's about getting the right version of the camera.

Giles

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

07/25/2012 01:40:40 PM · #7

will it make any difference when viewing the videos on youtube or on your computer?

seems like a storm in a tea cup and a cop out from you that you took the store clerks word, you should have checked for yourself when purchasing, so its at least half your responsibility

07/25/2012 01:49:40 PM · #8

Originally posted by Giles_uk:

I burn videos to DVD and Blu-ray and send it home for family. Yes, it matters.

I had no other word to go by. When purchasing, there was no way to check other than to take it home, open it up and find out. I'm confused as to how it's half my responsibility. I did what I thought was possible to make sure I ordered what I wanted. What more would you have done?

Giles

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

07/25/2012 02:07:24 PM · #9

2 minutes research tells me that on the base of the camera it says

1080-60i-compatible device: 60i
1080-50i-compatible device: 50i

surely someone so gear focussed as yourself and knowing there where two versions would have checked that?

i take it the guy you dealt with was japanese could there have been a mix up in translation also

jadin

Nikon D800

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED VR

07/25/2012 02:18:54 PM · #10

You did not get what you paid for plain and simple. You basically ordered the American model but were given the European.

If I were you I'd walk in demand a refund or exchange for the camera you actually ordered and settle for nothing less.

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

07/25/2012 02:27:19 PM · #11

Originally posted by Giles_uk:

I knew there would be 2 different cameras, NTSC or PAL. As stated in my original post I asked "Is the 'international/overseas version NTSC or PAL?" His answer was "NTSC, which is 60p". That question was asked BECAUSE I didn't want to end up with a 50p version. Again, as I stated in my OP, I explained to the clerk the difference and therefore he went off and checked. There was nothing lost in translation, I'm fluent enough to get my major points across and definitely fluent enough to go in and argue my point.

Had I ended up with options (Or without) because I hadn't asked, it would've been my fault (IMO) and it would be up to how nice they would be to give me a refund (Law here gives me a week, or 2 to return any product). I really just want what I was promised.

Worst case scenario, I'll either end up with a Japanese version (Learning the language of the menus, harder than speaking) and get the 60p...or get myself a Canon S100 at half the price. That's if everything goes FUBAR

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

07/25/2012 02:33:10 PM · #12

Originally posted by heavyj:

Originally posted by Giles_uk:
2 minutes research tells me that on the base of the camera it says

1080-60i-compatible device: 60i
1080-50i-compatible device: 50i

surely someone so gear focussed as yourself and knowing there where two versions would have checked that?

i take it the guy you dealt with was japanese could there have been a mix up in translation also

I knew there would be 2 different cameras, NTSC or PAL. As stated in my original post I asked "Is the 'international/overseas version NTSC or PAL?" His answer was "NTSC, which is 60p". That question was asked BECAUSE I didn't want to end up with a 50p version. Again, as I stated in my OP, I explained to the clerk the difference and therefore he went off and checked. There was nothing lost in translation, I'm fluent enough to get my major points across and definitely fluent enough to go in and argue my point.

Had I ended up with options (Or without) because I hadn't asked, it would've been my fault (IMO) and it would be up to how nice they would be to give me a refund (Law here gives me a week, or 2 to return any product). I really just want what I was promised.

Worst case scenario, I'll either end up with a Japanese version (Learning the language of the menus, harder than speaking) and get the 60p...or get myself a Canon S100 at half the price. That's if everything goes FUBAR

If you're spending this kind of change, why not the G1X?

JiaBob

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

07/25/2012 02:35:00 PM · #13

The clerk gave you bad information, and you based your decision on that information. Had he given you accurate information, you might have opted for a different camera. The best you can hope to achieve is an exchange for the camera you would otherwise have chosen from their offerings. Their mistake in explaining features is unlikely to translate to an expansion of what they offer, and I doubt very seriously that you will win a one-off import at their expense.

07/25/2012 02:56:19 PM · #14

No G1x because of the size/weight.

Originally posted by JiaBob:

I would have opted for a different camera, perhaps.

Had I made a similar mistake at my job, there would've been such an 'expansion' of services, at least until the customer was satisfied. That is, if I wanted to keep their business, and my reputation. Since I'm a number to the bigger companies, should that make their mistake something I should treat differently?

ETA: In the end, I will end up with the matter resolved one way or the other. Japanese customer services is pretty exceptional compared to what I've experienced elsewhere. It's a matter of time really. Will I get what I would like in time for my trip?

I'm angry now, but tomorrow I may wake up feeling a bit different. Going to bed now. I will update this thread when I know what has happened.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

07/26/2012 07:53:32 AM · #15

As soon as I brought it in I was met with apologies from the person in charge. He said that they contacted Sony again, Sony went through their voice recording of the call the clerk made and that the person at Sony gave the wrong information to the clerk. So, Sony messed up.

I explained that I wanted a Sony RX 100, in English with 60p video. The clerk went on to tell Sony what I wanted. Sony said they have no 'relationship' with the U.S Sony and so they are unable to get such a copy. Really...is Sony that small a company???

Anyways, I messed around with the idea of getting the Canon S100 at half the price and then buying myself a new bag when I get home from the trip with the money I saved. My wife is now the one that is in control though and she has been in customer service for a long time and won't accept this. We'll see what happens.

PGerst

Canon EOS-20D

07/26/2012 09:18:21 AM · #16

Just read all this.

Over the past couple years I have had horrible experiences with SONY and have come away with a very strong sense that Sony does not "care" about customer satisfaction. The treated me with nothing less than the electronic equivalent of slamming a door in my face.

Every company has its issues, but never before was I faced with a company so unwilling to help its customers.

When other options are available, I will no longer buy Sony products.

Originally posted by heavyj:

I explained that I wanted a Sony RX 100, in English with 60p video. The clerk went on to tell Sony what I wanted. Sony said they have no 'relationship' with the U.S Sony and so they are unable to get such a copy. Really...is Sony that small a company???

dagaleaa

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2

07/26/2012 10:55:27 AM · #17

So sorry you did not receive the camera you wanted...upsetting! I know you were up in the air for awhile as to which camera to purchase...

scalvert

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/26/2012 11:12:25 AM · #18

Just a thoughtâ�� B&H sells the RX100 for $670, and will ship to Japan in 3-5 business days for $45.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

07/26/2012 12:54:04 PM · #19

Originally posted by PGerst:

I too had abysmal luck with Sony customer service, or more accurately, the *complete* lack of.....

NEVER again will I buy anything from them. Their products from my experience are junk, they don't care about their customers, and they use their retail market for their long term testing.

Anyone else remember those POS PS2s they couldn't manufacture fast enough to keep up with warranty replacements?

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

07/26/2012 03:29:29 PM · #20

Sony Haters who care about Hollywood might get a kick out of "Hit and Run" by Griffin & Masters, which tells about all the money they lost in Hollywood. It's quite a farce.

07/27/2012 12:27:48 AM · #21

UPDATE:

My wife spoke to the Japanese version of the 'Better Business Bureau' and between them and Sony had a long discussion. Apparently, even though Sony gave the wrong information to the store, their contract with the store is written in such a way that mistakes made must be corrected by the store. I don't know how that works...but I was told to go back to the store, inform them that they are responsible and that if they aren't willing to replace the camera with the one I expected that the Bureau would then take the problem up with the higher ups of the company.

If I wasn't so close to my vacation time I'd be happy to wait this out...I just want a camera...bringing my 1D and just buying a new bag is seeming a whole lot more hassle free...that or picking up the Canon S100

Message edited by author 2012-07-27 00:28:17.

07/27/2012 10:50:37 AM · #22

Alright, well it's coming to an end. Today, I found out that even though Sony gave the store the wrong information, the store is technically responsible. The store would get me an American model if Sony would send it to them but apparently, even though this particular camera is MADE IN JAPAN, the American models must be bought in America. The store couldn't get a reason out of Sony as to why, just that 'it's part of their system'...whatever that means. The clerks tried hard. The fact that the customer service center was on them hard about it helped. Sony is likely to lose my business. Looks like Canon gets my money. I'm still going to complain to Sony though. Would love to take some video of the plant that makes the American models (Probably the same building as the rest of their products) and say "They make them in Japan, but they won't sell them in Japan!"

scalvert

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/27/2012 10:57:44 AM · #23

Originally posted by heavyj:

The store couldn't get a reason out of Sony as to why, just that 'it's part of their system'...whatever that means.

Likely the same reason it's hard to get a PAL camera in America... the market just isn't big enough to support the effort of packaging, warehousing and managing another version for the handful of people who want NTSC in Japan.

07/27/2012 05:50:59 PM · #24

But Japan is NTSC...it's not PAL.

scalvert