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06/07/2012 11:01:19 AM · #26 |
| Wendy..I agree. Leave cropping alone. Sometimes you don't have the opportunity to compose a shot in camera |
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06/07/2012 11:12:06 AM · #27 |
I'm not sure what the difference is in having my camera sharpen, correct color, etc. and me doing it on my computer. I would vote to combine Minimal and Basic, allow RAW conversions but have all adjustments global. No cropping is fine, although capturing exactly what is intended is harder for those of us without a full frame camera. Since photographers have always been able to manipulate their work (including cropping) I don't see why people are so opposed to a few global corrections.
Borders can be a nice addition, however I would agree they should not be allowed in Basic/Minimal. |
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06/07/2012 11:31:21 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Wendy..I agree. Leave cropping alone. Sometimes you don't have the opportunity to compose a shot in camera |
isn't this the whole point of minimal?
while im not a fan of the editing style, i see why we need no cropping. for minimal, just choose a different subject. for basic and minimal you dont see me shooting a bridge (unless its a night shot), even though i could compose it properly there is not way i could get the exposure right with out the selective edits and combining exposures in advanced. |
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06/07/2012 12:39:26 PM · #29 |
| I'd just be happy if raw conversions were allowed in minimal. |
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06/07/2012 12:43:29 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
My three cents....
I like minimal the way it is. It makes me think.
Put basic and advanced together into one.
Expert is it's own ballgame. |
Yep. Makes sense to me. Best suggestion yet :) |
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06/07/2012 12:45:54 PM · #31 |
| Assuming the new suggestion was put into place, I don't see why that would eliminate the pure straight-out-of-the-camera-challenges. Just use the new minimal rules as suggested and then add an extra rule for that particular challenge that restricts the challenge further (ex. no borders, jpg only, etc). Since these challenges are so few and far between it makes sense to apply those older rules only when needed as an extra rule to a particular challenge. |
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06/07/2012 01:14:06 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
I'd just be happy if raw conversions were allowed in minimal. |
i think most people would, but allowing it would mean that we are allowed to perform other types of edits within the raw editor or at least SC wouldn't really be able to verify what we did over what he camera would have produced.
Message edited by author 2012-06-07 13:15:16. |
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06/07/2012 02:22:08 PM · #33 |
Well I would be a little happier with this site if we had just the three rule sets Mike is proposing as long as the majority of topics fell into the less time consuming "standard" ruleset. The proposed names for them are okay, though to me "Extended" might be a better name for what is now "Expert" as most of the images in those galleries to me are anything but "Enhanced", lol!
For the "Minimal" ruleset I would like to see at least a slight amount of cropping allowed. A good shot puts the subject in the right spot within a frame. Especially with the rather wide 4:3 ratio of most dSLRs this is not an easy task to do without ending up with peripheral distractions. So you can spend countless extra hours looking for a scene that fits right into the aspect of your particular camera, such a waste! And let's not forget, some cameras do not give a 100% view of the scene.
I can see where unlimited ability to crop would allow for lazy "do the comp later" shooting. But why not allow a specific small percentage (10-20% maybe?) of the original image size to be cropped to allow for a frame ratio that fits the scene correctly or allows little "gotcha" distractions that can't be seen in the field on some cameras to be removed? It could even maybe be limited to one or two edges of the frame?
With just a little cropping latitude allowed under Minimal, the amount of time one has to spend in the field to get a good shot could be drastically reduced.
Message edited by author 2012-06-07 14:23:46. |
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06/07/2012 04:08:27 PM · #34 |
in shooting for this most recent minimal challenge, or any, crop is what I miss most.
Next, shadow highlight- curve, levels, unsharp-mask, the list goes on.
I like the name changes Mike. You have us thinking. I know it's not a democracy, but it's as necessary to explore why we have minimal challenges, as much as it is necessary to determine what makes it "minimal." |
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06/07/2012 05:49:59 PM · #35 |
I read through the thread - very well thought out and presented post, Mike. Put me in this camp:
- get rid of basic
- keep minimal exactly as is. Many folks asking for some exceptions (RAW, a little crop, etc.), but I agree with Hahn's original comments about the point being that it forces you to pay attention to the process and setting s when you are taking the photo. There is great value in that, IMO.
- Change the names of advanced and expert as originally proposed: standard and enhanced (yes, Brent, they are enhanced - at least when expertly done. :P)
Seems to be a fairly good amount of agreement on most of what is proposed (I am making a note of that for the recordbook). What would be the steps to get something done? |
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06/07/2012 06:55:31 PM · #36 |
What a great thread, thoughtful meaningful discussion. We need more of this here.
I would be in full support of the three rule set that we seem to be gravitating to.
Minimal: Leave as is (although I would mind allowing a crop of no more than 5% of the pixels)
Standard: Editing style formerly known as Advanced
Enhanced: Editing style formerly known as Expert |
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06/07/2012 07:05:47 PM · #37 |
I like it.
But, if one is allowed to rotate in Minimal, then one would have to crop, right? |
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06/07/2012 07:40:14 PM · #38 |
Crop or don't crop, but putting a % limitation on it just seems to add more room for arguments and adds more work to the validation process. I'd say don't crop - straight from the camera. Frame it properly, compensate for whatever lens or sensor anomalies you need to and deal with it.
-Art (the guy who never enters minimal editing challenges) :) |
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06/07/2012 07:58:44 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Crop or don't crop, but putting a % limitation on it just seems to add more room for arguments and adds more work to the validation process. I'd say don't crop - straight from the camera. Frame it properly, compensate for whatever lens or sensor anomalies you need to and deal with it.
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that's where stand.
if its an exercise in composition among other things, cropping should not be allowed.
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06/07/2012 08:13:23 PM · #40 |
Ok, you scared the crop out of me.
Right outta the camera sounds good.
We all agree no in-camera bullshite like the silly effects found in cheap point and shoots, for minimal right? |
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06/07/2012 08:24:15 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Ok, you scared the crop out of me.
Right outta the camera sounds good.
We all agree no in-camera bullshite like the silly effects found in cheap point and shoots, for minimal right? |
not just found in P&S's anymore...
they were always banned (in minimal) and i dont think anyone has any will to let them in :)
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06/07/2012 08:48:50 PM · #42 |
| Just tell me the rules when all is said and done. |
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06/07/2012 09:08:02 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Just tell me the rules when all is said and done. |
At the end of the day, yea, this.
Just take some interesting photos.
(one rule there) |
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06/07/2012 09:42:12 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by rooum:
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Just tell me the rules when all is said and done. |
At the end of the day, yea, this.
Just take some interesting photos.
(one rule there) |
oh!!! Come on!!! No one said they had to be interesting! I'm looking at 7 wide angle, minimum editing shots, and they're all boring!! :(
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06/07/2012 09:44:30 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by rooum:
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Just tell me the rules when all is said and done. |
At the end of the day, yea, this.
Just take some interesting photos.
(one rule there) |
oh!!! Come on!!! No one said they had to be interesting! I'm looking at 7 wide angle, minimum editing shots, and they're all boring!! :( |
Oh, so just a yellow ribbon for you in this one Wendy? :P |
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06/07/2012 09:45:44 PM · #46 |
| I would keep crop in minimal. |
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06/07/2012 09:55:07 PM · #47 |
| Wendy, take fewer images. |
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06/07/2012 09:55:49 PM · #48 |
Minimal. As is, no crop.
Normal. Previously known as Advanced.
Gyaban. Previously known as Expert. |
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06/07/2012 09:55:49 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by chazoe:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by rooum:
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Just tell me the rules when all is said and done. |
At the end of the day, yea, this.
Just take some interesting photos.
(one rule there) |
oh!!! Come on!!! No one said they had to be interesting! I'm looking at 7 wide angle, minimum editing shots, and they're all boring!! :( |
Oh, so just a yellow ribbon for you in this one Wendy? :P |
I'm guessing a 5.3 in this one. :)
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06/07/2012 09:58:48 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by chazoe:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by rooum:
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Just tell me the rules when all is said and done. |
At the end of the day, yea, this.
Just take some interesting photos.
(one rule there) |
oh!!! Come on!!! No one said they had to be interesting! I'm looking at 7 wide angle, minimum editing shots, and they're all boring!! :( |
Oh, so just a yellow ribbon for you in this one Wendy? :P |
I'm guessing a 5.3 in this one. :) |
I'll bet you get higher than that. We'll see
I'm actually guessing mine scores a 6. I got pretty lucky with this one |
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