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08/13/2004 12:34:09 AM · #51 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by VisiBlanco:
Windows is just as stable/secure if you know how to use it. |
Aye ... there's the rub. "Most" people not only can't build a computer, they couldn't name their operating system, they just want to get some task (word processing, number crunching, web surfing, games, whatever ...) DONE and don't want to worry about configurations, conflicts, or any ove the 6000 control panels necessary to get Windows working properly. (Hyperbole intentional).
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"Most" people just want to drive their car from one place to another, not bother about putting gasoline in it or air in to their tires. They don't care about performing routine maintence like replacing washer fluid or taking the car in for regular oil changes. Why should they have to deal with all the switches and dials and wheels to drive the standard car, they just want to get from one place to another.
Rambling point is, a computer is a whole lot more complex than a car and works better with the same amount of user and professionally applied care. The fact that most people expect computers to work without any management is just a lie sold to them by the OS manufacturers. Mac or PC. |
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08/13/2004 12:59:17 AM · #52 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
The fact that most people expect computers to work without any management is just a lie sold to them by the OS manufacturers. Mac or PC. |
I completely agree ... I first learned photo-typesetting on a DEC PDP 11/70 (later on VAX) using troff -- at least on Windows 3.1.1 I could play Solitaire while it was printing incorrectly ... |
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08/13/2004 02:43:33 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I first learned photo-typesetting on a DEC PDP 11/70 (later on VAX) using troff -- at least on Windows 3.1.1 I could play Solitaire while it was printing incorrectly ... |
Wow, there's a blast from my past :) One of my first jobs after school was working PDP 11/70's. We had banks of them at the bank I was at, I remember rows and rows of storage cabinets, each with RMO3's and RMO5's (I think they were ... you know, storage the size of a garbage can lid, stacked a few times, capacity ..... less than a compact flash card *laugh*
Then we advanced, all the way up to .. Vax's, but I can't remember the model.
Ahh, those were the days :)
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08/13/2004 03:00:38 AM · #54 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Rambling point is, a computer is a whole lot more complex than a car and works better with the same amount of user and professionally applied care. The fact that most people expect computers to work without any management is just a lie sold to them by the OS manufacturers. Mac or PC. |
Hehe, so true. But that's excactly the job marketingboys are paid for! ;D. After I changed to linux, I was in a trouble for the next month but since that no problems. And stress levels? Perhaps ten times lower than with windows 2k.
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08/13/2004 03:23:06 AM · #55 |
My icons are messed up...O_o
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08/13/2004 04:10:04 AM · #56 |
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08/13/2004 04:47:42 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by MrAkamai:
I just got around to finally installing Adobe CS standard on my new G5 and I haven't created any new publications with InDesign CS yet and I'm curious how different it is compared to v2. |
InDesign CS wipes the floor with v2 and Quark (it's great to see the seemingly arrogant, obstructive company, Quark watch their market share give way to a superior, more instinctive application). It's particularly good at generating amazingly economical press-quality PDFs, delicious results with PShop alpha channels (import any PSD/TIFF with alphas and select which to use), transparency and intuitive text-flow. I'm encouraging my suppliers to get it - I've never looked back.
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08/13/2004 04:58:39 AM · #58 |
I used InDesign for the first time last month. I found it intuitive and very simple to pick-up (much easier than I first found the dated Quark)
It is quite simply a dream to use as John said. Just being able to drop images in .PSD to me is a god send.
I first made a complex document in photoshop with layers blends etc and used it as a BG for my ID text.
After a week of using ID I thought what if I tried to make it all in ID - layer effects and everything. Piece of cake, just made a master page and bosh - any changes to it are simple and quick and all done in one piece of software.
Text boxes are nicer too and can free flow from one to another! Some nice padding options like on dreamweaver which i found quite helpful.
Also you have the option of a high-res preview so you can actually see the images as they should eb on your screen - not those garbled crap that Quark gives you.
I now hate Quark and will never return unless some printer will not accept ID.
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08/13/2004 05:57:06 AM · #59 |
Haha all this talk about computers and running them I am glad I am home and using mine again, Went on a long vacation and learned a lot from using different computers and programs. In fact just learned how to capture my desktop yesterday. Yeah there is so much to running a computer its not all just games, net, or Dpc.....Theres so much more and if you take lots of photos you have to know how to find them to burn and delete, it doesnt take long for a simple pcs harddrive of 10MB or 20MB to get full!
Message edited by author 2004-08-13 05:59:11.
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08/13/2004 06:01:21 AM · #60 |
Interesting.
Several years ago I was an IT Trainer at a company that offered training on both Macs and PCs. It was always amusing listening to Macheads putting down PCs and PCheads putting down Macs when each admitted that they'd never used the other!
Certainly by that time Quark (3.32) was identical in use on both platforms. That said more people used it on Mac because there were very few print houses who had PCs and hyphenation did get screwed when opening a PC file on Mac and vice versa.
I used to enjoy training Quark, I had one of those serious little men from Quark UK come in and assess my training, that was amusing. It was a darn sight better than Page Maker which I had to train too.
The funniest was when I was invited by Quark to become a trainer for their new product Quarkimmedia. That product really was the worst application I'd ever come across and why they thought anyone would use it over Director was beyond me. It was truly appalling. Still my job meant I had to develop and deliver training on it and not say anything too negative about it. I left that job soon afterwards and I'm certain the product flopped spectactularly. It certainly deserved to.
After that I was an internal trainer for 5 years and most of our applications were PC based or mainframe based. I did minor training (at a boring basic level) on Quark 3.32 for the brochure design studio but had little exposure to Macs and haven't since I left there 2 years ago.
Can anyone tell about this CS thing that's wiping floor with Quark? I'm quite curious about it, what the differences are, how it's better and so on. Quark always struck me as a lot like Apple - resting on their laurels and too darn smug. Apple finally overcame that and their fortunes have started to turn somewhat. It seems Quark haven't moved forward at all?
Message edited by author 2004-08-13 06:01:51.
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08/13/2004 06:20:30 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by tolovemoon:
Haha all this talk about computers and running them I am glad I am home and using mine again, Went on a long vacation and learned a lot from using different computers and programs. In fact just learned how to capture my desktop yesterday. Yeah there is so much to running a computer its not all just games, net, or Dpc.....Theres so much more and if you take lots of photos you have to know how to find them to burn and delete, it doesnt take long for a simple pcs harddrive of 10MB or 20MB to get full!
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I assume you mean 10GB or 20GB!!
I remember in 1989, I bought my first PC. A megga fast 16 MHZ 80286 with 1 MB Ram!!! (I know ...I know, all green with envy aren't you).
When I bought it the standard hard disk was 20 MB, but I opted for the top of the line 40MB version. The salesman looked at me like I was a total idiot. He said "40 MB!! What would anyone want 40 MB for. You won't fill that in my whole life!!!!!!"
Ha Ha Ha Ha
ROFL. |
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08/13/2004 06:21:53 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
Can anyone tell about this CS thing that's wiping floor with Quark? I'm quite curious about it, what the differences are, how it's better and so on. Quark always struck me as a lot like Apple - resting on their laurels and too darn smug. Apple finally overcame that and their fortunes have started to turn somewhat. It seems Quark haven't moved forward at all? |
CS is Adobe's Creative Suite series of apps. They integrate very well and when used with VersionCue (which tracks changes interactively and prevents overwrites and mistakenly used files) can be very powerful together.
I turned my back on Quark due to their greedy pricing structure and upgrade path.
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08/13/2004 06:27:56 AM · #63 |
Now that I'm no longer training in the graphic design field I have no exposure to the new stuff... thanks very much.
I know what you mean re pricing for Quark. What is it these days? How does it compare with prices for applications such as Photoshop, Illustrator, CS?
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08/13/2004 07:12:56 AM · #64 |
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08/14/2004 12:54:03 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
Now that I'm no longer training in the graphic design field I have no exposure to the new stuff... thanks very much.
I know what you mean re pricing for Quark. What is it these days? How does it compare with prices for applications such as Photoshop, Illustrator, CS? |
I paid USD$540 for the Adobe Creative Suite standard edition (Photoshop CS, Illustrator CS, InDesign CS and VersionCue). QuarkXPress (v6) upgrades range in price from USD$149-449 depending on your current version. Remember, that's just for the upgrade to v6 of QuarkXPress not including any upgrades to Photoshop or Illustrator both of which are included in the CS standard suite. Also, the upgrade price for Quark is good only until August 16th, then it goes up $50.
So, let's presume you have QuarkXPress v5 and want to upgrade to v6 and you also need Photoshop CS and Illustrator CS:
Quark upgrade ($149)
Photoshop CS ($169)
Illustrator CS ($169)
TOTAL: $487 (less than CS upgrade)
Quark upgrade from oldest allowable version-v3 ($449)
Photoshop CS ($169)
Illustrator CS ($169)
TOTAL: $787 (much more than CS upgrade)
So, it really matters which version you currently have if you need to upgrade. I started out with PageMaker back in the Aldus days and went all the way up to v6.5 on both the Mac and PC. It was really clunky on the PC and I did not like it at all. Then I switched to InDesign v1.5 and I never went back to PageMaker. I personally do not know another person who uses InDesign but a couple of my service bureaus have it and are at least aware of it and the new shop my dad likes only uses Quark which I hate. I need to convince either the shop to get InDesign or my dad to switch shops and both are stubborn. OK, I've babbled way too much so I'll stop. :)
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08/14/2004 03:55:29 AM · #66 |
Mine is of Domo-kun, he is a Japanese character, like the way he looks like he is screaming all the time
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08/14/2004 04:14:34 AM · #67 |
Originally posted by JackCruise:
Mine is of Domo-kun, he is a Japanese character, like the way he looks like he is screaming all the time
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Man I thought I was gonna see some Doodie on your desktop! LOL ;) |
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08/14/2004 04:39:21 AM · #68 |
Originally posted by tyt2000:
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Man I thought I was gonna see some Doodie on your desktop! LOL ;) [/quote]
Haha, Yea I thought about it, but stuck with this one
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08/14/2004 04:43:44 AM · #69 |
Dual-screen goodness! |
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08/14/2004 12:10:10 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by Brunosmad:
Dual-screen goodness! |
It really is the only way to go! :)
May I reccomend UltraMon? It will place a taskbar along the bottom edge of the second monitor, and programs on that screen will show up there instead of the primary monitor's taskbar. How nice is that? :)
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08/14/2004 12:33:43 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by MrAkamai:
OK, I've babbled way too much so I'll stop. :) |
Babbling much appreciated, TY!
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08/14/2004 12:44:02 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
Now that I'm no longer training in the graphic design field I have no exposure to the new stuff... thanks very much.
I know what you mean re pricing for Quark. What is it these days? How does it compare with prices for applications such as Photoshop, Illustrator, CS? |
It is not Quark's pricing which is so outrageous, it's their idiotic copy-protection system, wherein you need BOTH a valid serial number and an "activation number" to install beyond demo-mode. Only problem is, if you change computers, or your machine crashes severely, or you upgrade/patch your OS, you will possibly (probably) have to obtain a NEW activation number from Quark in order to reinstall.
This is addition to the reinstall procedure is likely to be all the more irritating since it's probably happening right when trying to finish up some big project, and even assuming Quark is still in business at the time, it's going to take 30 minutes to several hours to get up and running again.
Dan Margulis published an article about this 2-3 months ago in Electronic Publishing magazine ... says this anti-customer attitude finally pushed him over the edge into using InDesign. (He writes a monthly article on pre-press and Photoshop issues.) |
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08/14/2004 01:14:58 PM · #73 |
new computer
The face of my new dell 8400 about a week old.... |
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08/14/2004 01:19:17 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Kavey:
Now that I'm no longer training in the graphic design field I have no exposure to the new stuff... thanks very much.
I know what you mean re pricing for Quark. What is it these days? How does it compare with prices for applications such as Photoshop, Illustrator, CS? |
It is not Quark's pricing which is so outrageous, it's their idiotic copy-protection system, wherein you need BOTH a valid serial number and an "activation number" to install beyond demo-mode. Only problem is, if you change computers, or your machine crashes severely, or you upgrade/patch your OS, you will possibly (probably) have to obtain a NEW activation number from Quark in order to reinstall.
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The main problem we used to have was their dingle-based licence system. If you didn't have a dingle plugged into the back of the Mac you weren't able to use the software. Of course, the customers attending courses weren't exactly unaware of the value of these dingles and ours would go walkies fairly regularly. (With the best will in the world, it's not that easy to stop this without investment in more staff/ security etc). We did manage to get some leeway because of our authorised training status and one room was installed with non dingle based versions but... always a nightmare.
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08/14/2004 01:47:28 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by Mousie:
Originally posted by Brunosmad:
Dual-screen goodness! |
It really is the only way to go! :)
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I disagree..
Duel PC's, side by side. Talk about multi-tasking processing power... :D |
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