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08/09/2004 10:44:39 AM · #1 |
I've gone and looked at all the various threads about tripods and heads and the like, and have come to the conclusion that most of the "magic" is in the head. The legs are pretty straight forward: how much you wanna pay for lightness versus stability, and the ability to go horizontal or real high or real low. (Correct me if I'm wrong there!)
What I'm having trouble with are the various type heads. My basic question is, what are the advantages/disadvantages/uses for the various systems? Pan/tilt? Ball? Grip?
I'm having a hard time piecing that together.
Thanks for any input. |
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08/09/2004 11:02:49 AM · #2 |
All those options can be confusing. I went with a grip action ball head atop a tripod that I already had (from Ritz or some such place but still sturdy & in too good a shape to justify purchasing another). I use that same head on my monopod sometimes.
Prior to the grip action, I had your typical tripod head with knobs, etc. and I never used it because adjusting it was a major PITA - of course, it was cheap head too. Anyway, because of the ease of using my 'gripper' I utilize my tripod all the time now.
My point to all this babbling is that the right head makes all the difference! And when I need to replace my tripod, I have my eye on this. The ultimate for an 'anti-knobber' like myself :-D |
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08/09/2004 12:01:47 PM · #3 |
I can't recommend enough a high-quality ball head with an Arca Swiss-style quick-release plate and camera specific L-bracket. This isn't a cheap solution by any means, but it is a fantastic setup that will last a very long time and grow as your system grows.
I have a Kirk BH-1 ball head, and a ReallyRightStuff L-bracket for my camera (although I had the Kirk L-bracket when I had a 10D and loved it. The RRS bracket for the 1D happened to be in stock when I needed it, so I bought the RRS version.)
The beauty of these camera specific L-brackets is that they are "form fitted" to each camera, so they look and feel "natural" mounted to the camera. You leave it on all the time -- which is totally different from my experience with things like Bogen's hex QR plates, which I was always removing when I wasn't specifically shooting on a tripod. The other huge advantage is that you can mount your camera in landscape or portrait orientation without having to rely on the head to "flip" your camera. By having another tripod mount point on the side of the camera (hence the "L" nomenclature), you keep the center-of-gravity over the top of the tripod legs for maximum stability and head functionality.
You can also read RRS's QR and Ball Head Tutorial and L-plate advantage.
The AcraTech is another very popular ball-head that uses Arca Swiss QR plates.
Once you've experienced the beauty of the AS system, you really won't want to use anything else...
Message edited by author 2004-08-09 12:08:29. |
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08/09/2004 12:11:13 PM · #4 |
I'd second the suggestion to get an Arca Swiss system.
Yes they are expensive. yes they are far far better than any of the other QR systems available.
This doesn't answer the 'head' question. Depending on the type of shooting you are doing though, a good ball head is fantastic - I have the AcraTech head which is wonderful - at least for systems up to 200mm lens or so (I haven't tried it with anything larger so can't comment - though its rated to about 25lbs)
L plates are good, though a bit of a pain given the need to have different plates with/without a battery grip.
I had previously used the manfrotto QR plates and they are averagely okay - plenty of wobble room and can easily twist - if you are mostly doing studio stuff with the camera in landscape mode, they are great, or for slight tilts - but doing more interesting stuff is annoying. Also, you tend not to be able to do a '90 flop' over with most heads - the L brackets give you great stability, in portrait or landscape mode, without needing to flop the head right over to the side.
I also had one of the manfrotto 3 way pan/ tilt heads - too many knobs to adjust for my liking. The 3 way heads have the advantage over ball heads if you wanted to do paning shots or panoramic work though, as you can isolate the movement to distinct planes - which you can't do so easily with a ball head.
I hate pistol grips, particularly the 'inline' ones that stick your camera up on a high 'stalk' over the stable tripod base - why bother with a tripod if you are going to put it on a wobbly extension.
Some of the pistol grips (side access) ones reduce the additonal height and may be more useful.
Also - don't believe any tripod that claims the center column can be usefully reversed to get 'down low' While technically true, it is essentially unuseable in that position. A really good tripod will either open completely flat to the ground, or let you mount the center
column parallel to the ground for low shots.
Message edited by author 2004-08-09 12:15:20.
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08/09/2004 12:29:39 PM · #5 |
I had a Bogen 3-way pan/tilt head, when I first bought my tripod. After a while, though, I realized I was actually missing some shots because of screwing around trying to get the tripod in position. So I looked into a ball head.
It's sooooooo much nicer. The 3-way head was also limiting in the angles it could turn, for instance, it could only angle about +/- 30 degrees up/down. My ball head, a Bogen 488RC2, is much more flexible. I've not felt limited by it in any way. It's rock solid, quick to use, super smooth, and has a separate knob to allow panning without tilt or roll, good for panoramic shots.
I looked at the Arca Swiss, and they do look REALLY nice, but I didn't feel like spending that much for a head I couldn't try out myself first (no stores around here stock them, so I'd have to order online). I'd like to own one at some point though, so Gordon or EddyG, if you ever upgrade and have an old Arca Swiss head lying around, I'd be glaaaaad to give it a nice new home. ;-) |
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08/09/2004 01:17:48 PM · #6 |
Thanks for the input so far.
Gordon, you mention that panning w/ a ball head is difficult, but looking at the various ball head types, I see a lot of them have a rotating base, separate from the ball itself, that looks like it would lend itself well to panning. Am I missing something?
So if I were to go w/ the Arca Swiss system, I'd have to buy the legs, the head (which I assume would have no problem mounting to any pair of legs I bought), and at least one L plate (possibly two if I get the battery pack). Does that sound right?
Thanks for the info. I was hoping to drop about $250 on this. It's looking like at least double that, now! |
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08/09/2004 01:26:03 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by welcher:
Thanks for the input so far.
Gordon, you mention that panning w/ a ball head is difficult, but looking at the various ball head types, I see a lot of them have a rotating base, separate from the ball itself, that looks like it would lend itself well to panning. Am I missing something?
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No, you are right, most ball heads have a panning base, that allows you to rotate the entire 'ball head' in place. I just don't always do horizontal pans. A 3 way head can be more flexible for panning. It is not impossible to do with a ball head though.
I was just trying to highlight the differences in use is all. Can even pan effectively on a pair of legs without a head - just some are more suited to helping than others.
Originally posted by welcher:
So if I were to go w/ the Arca Swiss system, I'd have to buy the legs, the head (which I assume would have no problem mounting to any pair of legs I bought), and at least one L plate (possibly two if I get the battery pack). Does that sound right?
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Also realise a few things:
If you decide to go with Arca Swiss, you do not require an L bracket.
You can buy flat Arca Swiss brackets, that are cheaper, but you will then need to flop the head over to hang 'off the ball' to shoot portrait mode. This works fine, but is just not as stable as re-mounting the camera directly over the center of the tripod in portrait mode, with the L bracket.
You also do not require two brackets. I tend not to bother using the battery grip on the tripod anyway - all it does is introduce more instability (moves the camera higher) and the bracket has holes cut to allow easy changing of batteries.
When I use the camera with the grip, I tend to be working handheld. The grip + batteries make the camera heavy enough, without keeping an L bracket on there as well.
Depending on how you use your camera, with or without a grip, I would only get one bracket. They can be very quickly changed, with just an allen key, and are extremely solidly fitting when attached (lip on the back of the camera so no chance of rotating) Eddy mentioned his bracket attaches to the camera strap, so is no doubt harder to change quickly. There may be some marginal stability advantage, if the tripod mount ripped out of the camera - but I'd worry about other things than the bracket slipping, if that had happened.
Really Right Stuff make good gear - but it is very expensive for what it is.
You also want to pay attention to the mounting screw size on the legs and tripod head. They _should_ be the same size, but you _should_ check ;)
Message edited by author 2004-08-09 13:26:46.
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08/09/2004 01:29:33 PM · #8 |
I bought the Bogen/Manfrotto 3265 Pistol/Grip Head.
I love the smooth action and it stays where I put it.
It has the tension adjustment to allow you to get the feel you like.
It even holds up when using the large EOS10D and the Tokina 80-400mm lens or the Canon 100-400mm IS lens.
Also the socket is notched so if you want to go vertical you can do it a a matter of seconds.
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08/09/2004 02:00:35 PM · #9 |
I have the Bogen 322rc2. It is very similar to calvus's. I dont know about his but mine is a new design such that the trigger is mounted sideways. I find it easier to use than the vertical mount. Everything Calvus said about his is true of mine. It is fantastic!! Check it out on B & H.
dc |
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08/09/2004 02:06:10 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by dcano:
I have the Bogen 322rc2. It is very similar to calvus's. I dont know about his but mine is a new design such that the trigger is mounted sideways. I find it easier to use than the vertical mount. Everything Calvus said about his is true of mine. It is fantastic!! Check it out on B & H.
dc |
I have this head too, I like it a lot as well. You can also reconfigure it to have the handle on the other side, or mounted on the end so that it is like the 3265 head (Pistolgrip)
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08/09/2004 02:06:29 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Calvus:
I bought the Bogen/Manfrotto 3265 Pistol/Grip Head.
I love the smooth action and it stays where I put it.
It has the tension adjustment to allow you to get the feel you like.
It even holds up when using the large EOS10D and the Tokina 80-400mm lens or the Canon 100-400mm IS lens.
Also the socket is notched so if you want to go vertical you can do it a a matter of seconds.
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Does the camera wobble at all on the top of all that ? I find even when I extend the center column that the stability drops pretty rapidly with tripods.
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08/09/2004 03:39:56 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by welcher:
So if I were to go w/ the Arca Swiss system, I'd have to buy the legs, the head (which I assume would have no problem mounting to any pair of legs I bought), and at least one L plate (possibly two if I get the battery pack). Does that sound right? |
If you buy a ball head, make sure it comes with an AS clamp; some ball heads sell it as an extra "option".
Once I got BG-ED3, I never took it off my camera, so I only found the need for the one L-bracket. The 10D/BG-ED3 L-bracket from RRS only attaches via the tripod screw hole on the bottom, so it can go on/off pretty quickly if necessary with an allen wrench. The Kirk version (which I had) also attached to the strap tab, which to me seemed like it be a little sturdier. Since I never planned on taking off the grip or the L-bracket, I went with the Kirk...
Like I said, ball head + AS = highly recommended! It was a big chunk of change, but I've never regretted the decision. |
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08/09/2004 06:48:13 PM · #13 |
I have never had a problem with camera wobble.
If I am on a spongy surface and there is wobble I usually use the remote.
The only time I have had a problem was on a bridge at the zoo and the entire bridge was flexing from visitors walking across it.
I have not had an occasion where I needed to extend the center column out that far. The tripod extends so high with just the legs and the height of the grip head I have only had to lift the center column on a few shoots. I did tightened the grip so you have to use a little more force to move it I did not the the loose feel.
Originally posted by Gordon:
Does the camera wobble at all on the top of all that ? I find even when I extend the center column that the stability drops pretty rapidly with tripods. |
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08/09/2004 07:17:39 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Calvus:
I have never had a problem with camera wobble.
If I am on a spongy surface and there is wobble I usually use the remote.
The only time I have had a problem was on a bridge at the zoo and the entire bridge was flexing from visitors walking across it. |
There was this other camera guy there that kept causing a rucus, which led to a bunch of comotion, and messed up his shots. :] |
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08/09/2004 10:49:54 PM · #15 |
Yeah I remember that :)
I think his name was FLASH
ROFLMAO
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by Calvus:
I have never had a problem with camera wobble.
If I am on a spongy surface and there is wobble I usually use the remote.
The only time I have had a problem was on a bridge at the zoo and the entire bridge was flexing from visitors walking across it. |
There was this other camera guy there that kept causing a rucus, which led to a bunch of comotion, and messed up his shots. :] |
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