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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Categorised free study voting
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 02/10/2012 10:01:46 AM · #1
I had an idea that we should have the option of categorising images in the free study, so we vote for like-themed images together. THe themes are obviously set by the member who submits the image. And images will be randomly arranged in each category. I think it would be good. But I'm willing to be wrong :-)
If you like the idea give it some love! https://getsatisfaction.com/dpchallenge/topics/categorised_free_study
 02/10/2012 10:03:44 AM · #2
it would take away some of the randomness which is the point of a free study.
 02/10/2012 10:05:29 AM · #3
Originally posted by mike_311:
it would take away some of the randomness which is the point of a free study.

Not the point of the free study at all. If it was then themed challenges wouldn't be randomised. I think voting like images against one another makes sense. It's still randomised. But categorically randomised meaning all landscapes are in a bunch, etc. I don't see any benefit to voting on a portrait, then landscape, then macro, but I can for what I suggested.



Message edited by author 2012-02-10 10:06:38.
 02/10/2012 10:11:02 AM · #4
The randomness of freestudy subjects helps inspire my Grog comments. The sameness of voting on 50 landscapes or portaits in a row wouldn't be to my liking.
 02/10/2012 10:13:14 AM · #5
Originally posted by NiallOTuama:
Originally posted by mike_311:
it would take away some of the randomness which is the point of a free study.

Not the point of the free study at all. If it was then themed challenges wouldn't be randomised. I think voting like images against one another makes sense. It's still randomised. But categorically randomised meaning all landscapes are in a bunch, etc. I don't see any benefit to voting on a portrait, then landscape, then macro, but I can for what I suggested.


but then some people would only vote on certain subjects. for instance i dont like macro or still life, so I'd probably focus my efforts on subjects i do like.
 02/10/2012 10:19:05 AM · #6
Opt out of it when you're grog so! :-)

Interesting thought, Mike. I just don't find the randomness constructive at all. Oftentimes I review my voting in FS afterwards, and I have either given images of similar quality (by my standards) vastly different votes, or given two of different quality the same votes. I gave Hahn's yellow ribbon a 6, for example. I would probably have given it an 8 had I voted for it properly. My fault, yes. But I wonder if similar themed voting might be helpful.
Or at least I think it'll give me a leveler voting field.

Message edited by author 2012-02-10 10:22:36.
 02/10/2012 10:25:46 AM · #7
The random presentation is intentional, and the order is different for each voter; it's intended to enhance fairness. Categorizing would defeat this.
Categorizing would also mean that we would be depending on the entrants to select a category, and their selections might not match our definitions, which might bias us.

ETA: My recommendation, as always, is to vote as many images as you feel comfortable with, in the order presented. If everyone does this, voting will be as fair and unbiased as it can be.

Message edited by author 2012-02-10 10:27:07.
 02/10/2012 10:41:12 AM · #8
Why should complete randomness enhance fairness?

I don't feel comfortable leaving voting undone. I would be much happier having voted for all landscapes, for example, than having voted for 25% of the images in the thing. 1/4 is arbitrary and means nothing. I have at least covered a category in my method.

Looks like there's little love for the idea though, so don't worry about it.
02/10/2012 10:52:08 AM · #9
Originally posted by NiallOTuama:
Why should complete randomness enhance fairness?

I don't feel comfortable leaving voting undone. I would be much happier having voted for all landscapes, for example, than having voted for 25% of the images in the thing. 1/4 is arbitrary and means nothing. I have at least covered a category in my method.

Looks like there's little love for the idea though, so don't worry about it.


It's difficult to get through voting in a free study -- there's so many. I'd be tempted to start off with the nature photography, and I might never get around to the others. Also, I agree with spiff -- looking at 50 portraits in a row would be my undoing. There's so many in a free study already, it's nice having a break. :)

I'd like to see the categorizing after the challenge, however. It would be fun to be able to view the results of nature vs landscape vs portrait, etc.
 02/10/2012 11:16:37 AM · #10
I actually had a similar idea early on. I found having disparate genres mixed up annoying. But my solution now is to vote only on topics that interest me. Unfortunately it means that quite often I don't make the required 20% in a FS.

In general I find voting in challenges with 300+ entries very time consuming and would rather have FSs split into genres. This would help with commenting too.
 02/10/2012 11:31:52 AM · #11
Originally posted by NiallOTuama:
Why should complete randomness enhance fairness?


There are two reasons:
1.) Most voters don't vote the whole challenge. It's important that we "equalize" the number of votes per image as best we can. If we allow categorization, the "popular categories" will receive more votes than the unpopular ones, potentially by a large margin.
2.) Whether we want to admit it or not, images viewed immediately prior to a given image can affect our views of that image. Randomizing ensures that this effect averages out.
 02/10/2012 12:38:54 PM · #12
We are allowed to change our vote, so I do. I go through the Free Study first to sort everything by using my score, arbitrarily picking a number for Landscapes, People, Animals, Bugs (for example). I do this because my favorite part of the challenge is to vote on those that don't fall into a category. After it's all sorted, then I vote the top in each category. After that's all sorted, I vote the 'best in show,' kind of like a dog show. I change my vote quite a few times, & comment last. It works for me, it might work for you.

[eta] On the other challenges, I sort by voting also, but my categories are much more subjective, based on the length of time the comp holds my attention, how much & where my eye travels in the comp, deliciousness, etc.

Message edited by author 2012-02-10 12:46:58.
 02/10/2012 01:11:30 PM · #13
Originally posted by pixelpig:
We are allowed to change our vote, so I do. I go through the Free Study first to sort everything by using my score, arbitrarily picking a number for Landscapes, People, Animals, Bugs (for example). I do this because my favorite part of the challenge is to vote on those that don't fall into a category. After it's all sorted, then I vote the top in each category. After that's all sorted, I vote the 'best in show,' kind of like a dog show. I change my vote quite a few times, & comment last. It works for me, it might work for you.

[eta] On the other challenges, I sort by voting also, but my categories are much more subjective, based on the length of time the comp holds my attention, how much & where my eye travels in the comp, deliciousness, etc.


Well, I did this twice before I stopped. I figured I needed a hole to sort into, and since I (almost) never use the 1 slot, I used that for sorting. First I scanned through fast and gave the landscapes 1's and didn't vote on anything else. Then I went back and revoted all the landscapes, moving them all out of the 1 slot. Next I went through the unvoted images and gave all the portraits 1's, then I voted THEM out of that slot, and so forth until I was all done. Then I realigned the 8's, 10's and 9's for my best-of-challenge rankings and I was done.

Categorized voting...

Unfortunately I received communications from SC that told me, essentially, that while I had a *right* to vote this way, it was having unintended consequences, that they were getting a huge number of troll complaints. And it was their contention that people were RETALIATING against this perceived trolling by throwing out low votes themselves, and so they basically told me what I was doing was a bad idea, and I stopped.

I toyed with the idea of sorting into a different slot, like 3 or 8, whatever, but the problem with that would be, when I did my revotes some of them would wind up in the sorting slot (remember, I never hand out 1's), so when I tried to sort the next batch they'd be mixed up with images of another category.

If I try this again, I will use a canned comment for each 1-vote, something like: "I am sorting the landscapes out to vote them as a group by assigning 1's to them. I will return to the landscapes and assign them *real* votes by judging them as a group shortly. Your 1 will not last long, don't be upset."

R.
 02/10/2012 01:55:28 PM · #14
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
And it was their contention that people were RETALIATING against this perceived trolling by throwing out low votes themselves, and so they basically told me what I was doing was a bad idea, and I stopped.


So people retaliated against imaginary trolls by becoming real trolls, classic, I love this site :)
 02/10/2012 02:20:59 PM · #15
Have to agree that some categories would be ignored.

And I do find it discouraging that some can't find the time to vote the entire challenge yet expect others to do so and leave comments as well.
 02/10/2012 05:25:54 PM · #16
Originally posted by Melethia:
Have to agree that some categories would be ignored.

And I do find it discouraging that some can't find the time to vote the entire challenge yet expect others to do so and leave comments as well.


Hey you! Quit flapping your gums and get back to digging that trench! ;-)
 02/10/2012 05:47:22 PM · #17
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Well, I did this twice before I stopped. I figured I needed a hole to sort into, and since I (almost) never use the 1 slot, I used that for sorting. First I scanned through fast and gave the landscapes 1's and didn't vote on anything else. Then I went back and revoted all the landscapes, moving them all out of the 1 slot. Next I went through the unvoted images and gave all the portraits 1's, then I voted THEM out of that slot, and so forth until I was all done. Then I realigned the 8's, 10's and 9's for my best-of-challenge rankings and I was done.

Categorized voting...

Unfortunately I received communications from SC that told me, essentially, that while I had a *right* to vote this way, it was having unintended consequences, that they were getting a huge number of troll complaints. And it was their contention that people were RETALIATING against this perceived trolling by throwing out low votes themselves, and so they basically told me what I was doing was a bad idea, and I stopped.

I toyed with the idea of sorting into a different slot, like 3 or 8, whatever, but the problem with that would be, when I did my revotes some of them would wind up in the sorting slot (remember, I never hand out 1's), so when I tried to sort the next batch they'd be mixed up with images of another category.

If I try this again, I will use a canned comment for each 1-vote, something like: "I am sorting the landscapes out to vote them as a group by assigning 1's to them. I will return to the landscapes and assign them *real* votes by judging them as a group shortly. Your 1 will not last long, don't be upset."

R.


Yes, I remember the uproar. So, don't use 1, it upsets people. There are 7 categories scored 4 & above. I have 6 categories. The 10 score I don't use for sorting. I sort as I go, getting a general idea. Then I do each category. If I get some people mixed in w/the landscapes in the process, it doesn't confuse me. At the end, the shots that don't categorize get voted last.

The people who just vote the challenge are also sorting, just using different categories. All the shots w/the same score get sorted together. I used to vote this way. At then end, going back to move some scores up, some down. Saving the 10 for last.

IMHO the result is the same. Everyone changes some of their scores, sometimes all their scores. The reasons why they do it don't really matter. It's important to vote the whole challenge. How you do it is up to you. I need all that voting to build up the courage to comment.

All that being said, it amazes me that landscapes often take 20-30% of the total. By the time I sort into categories by subject, there isn't much left. Are photographers so captured by subject? Why isn't there more street photography--is it the streets or is it Homeland Security? If we had a challenge asking for a focal point but no subject what would we get? Sorting by subject raises all these questions for me. Maybe I should stop voting for a while & rest!
 02/11/2012 05:15:51 AM · #18
Originally posted by Melethia:


And I do find it discouraging that some can't find the time to vote the entire challenge yet expect others to do so and leave comments as well.


I normally vote 20% not because of time constraints but because expensive connection costs! i certainly don't expect others too vote/comment 100% ! I vote on the first 20% to come up and after that if anything exceptional catches my eye will vote on it! I rarely comment on challenges as people seem to not like constructive comments only "nice" ones!
 02/11/2012 07:27:17 AM · #19
Originally posted by james_so:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
And it was their contention that people were RETALIATING against this perceived trolling by throwing out low votes themselves, and so they basically told me what I was doing was a bad idea, and I stopped.


So people retaliated against imaginary trolls by becoming real trolls, classic, I love this site :)


I was thinking the same. That's hysterical!
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