Lighting questions - DPChallenge Forums

12/30/2011 03:49:27 AM · #1

I took the plunge...got 4 lights.

3 are constant lights, color balanced for daylight, can be turned to half power and come with diffusers. These 3 lights are mainly for video use (3 point lighting). I got a deal on them at the store since it was the last 3 in stock. I also bought a Coment Twinkle (It's in Japanese)which is a 200W strobe. This is mainly for photography (Depending on how well the modeling lamp shows up on video, I may use it then as well).

All the light modifiers were, in my opinion, carzy expensive. A simple softbox was 200USD. Other shapes, such as the Octagon Softbox cost about 400USD. The guy at the store told me to look up a company (The paper I wrote the name on is somewhere in my bag) that sold simple setup softboxes that you can open up like an umbrella and slip on. Apparently very popular but the maker decided to sell online only.

I'm now wondering, is there really a difference in softboxes...I see stuff from China on ebay for 30 bucks, sometimes a bit more, sometimes less...what's the difference, what am looking for as far as the good/bad when it comes to light modifiers?

Also, is there a good book with picture examples of different light setups? I'm going to be spending the next couple of days practicing.

MinsoPhoto

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

12/30/2011 07:53:49 AM · #2

Not sure about the modifiers, especially with hot lights but as far as setups...

Link to a thread on here with a few diagrams.

Link to a thread here with a link to youtube videos including several on lighting.

Also check out scott kelby training and the strobist thread. There are books but to start out you can find a ton of information online.

12/30/2011 06:04:06 PM · #3

Yes, there is a difference in softboxes.
Some will eat more of your light, some can give funny color cast (particularly over time as the materials age), some will be a royal pain to setup, or be flimsy. I'd be hesitant to buy stuff just because it's cheap without reading some reviews. As Joshua noted, Strobist is a great place. But, one further thing about strobist, is you'd do well to check out the strobist group on flickr. This is largely because they are a huge group of people on a fixed budget, so they revel, in trying out and posting info on cheap Asian products that are flooding the market now. The basic premise of a softbox is extremely simple, which means you can probably make your own and it will probably work. The refinements (and where the cost comes in) are in what I noted at the beginning.

Message edited by author 2011-12-30 18:18:12.

12/30/2011 06:28:46 PM · #4

The umbrella mount style softboxes that I know of (but have not used) are the Westcott Apollo series.

As for cheap Chinese modifiers, I don't have direct knowledge of them, but I have read on the Paul Buff technical forum that the white nylon used for softboxes and umbrellas is difficult to make color neutral, and that cheaper nylons have a lot of "whiteners" that go very blue. As long as you know this, don't mix different kinds much, and do a gray card or custom white balance, etc, you can certainly work around it.

Here are three books I recommend highly:

1) Lighting Essentials: A Subject-Centric Approach for Digital Photographers by Don Giannatti

2) The Speedliter's Handbook by Syl Arena (note, while this book may appear Canon centric, and speedlight centric, there is a wealth of information and imagery that shows how the light from various types of modifiers looks, gear that works well, etc.)

3) OneLight Field Guide by Zack Arias (while this is a basically a one light scenario book, the images and the various modifiers, set ups, are very informative, and give you a lot of ideas, all of which can be expanded to more than a single light)

Message edited by author 2011-12-30 18:29:41.

12/30/2011 06:32:35 PM · #5

How Canon-centric is that Syl Arena one?

I will second the One light Field guide, as well as Mcnally's Hot Shoe Diaries.

12/30/2011 06:41:14 PM · #6

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

How Canon-centric is that Syl Arena one?

I will second the One light Field guide, as well as Mcnally's Hot Shoe Diaries.

Well, I am a Nikon guy, and I love the book. There is certainly good information on Canon speedlight menus, etc. but I would say that 90% of the book is useful for any sort of speedlight. One of the things I really like is that he basically gets nearly every modifier (or every type of modifer) on his speedlight, shows you the modifiers and a series of images taken with the modifiers from various makers so you can see what it does. He goes into batteries that work better, mounts and stands, booms, triggers, and so on.

He also includes a good section on lighting setups, with diagrams and resulting images. I would say that even if you only use studio lighting, at least 75% of the information in the book is still applicable.

12/30/2011 06:44:32 PM · #7

Originally posted by chromeydome:

[

Well, I am a Nikon guy, and I love the book. There is certainly good information on Canon speedlight menus, etc. but I would say that 90% of the book is useful for any sort of speedlight. One of the things I really like is that he basically gets nearly every modifier (or every type of modifer) on his speedlight, shows you the modifiers and a series of images taken with the modifiers from various makers so you can see what it does. He goes into batteries that work better, mounts and stands, booms, triggers, and so on.

He also includes a good section on lighting setups, with diagrams and resulting images. I would say that even if you only use studio lighting, at least 75% of the information in the book is still applicable.

I think I remember you having Hotshoe Diaries- is it a similar mix of info to Nikon proprietary as that then?
Sounds like one to add onto my list...

12/30/2011 07:26:52 PM · #8

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

Originally posted by chromeydome:
[

Well, I am a Nikon guy, and I love the book. There is certainly good information on Canon speedlight menus, etc. but I would say that 90% of the book is useful for any sort of speedlight. One of the things I really like is that he basically gets nearly every modifier (or every type of modifer) on his speedlight, shows you the modifiers and a series of images taken with the modifiers from various makers so you can see what it does. He goes into batteries that work better, mounts and stands, booms, triggers, and so on.

He also includes a good section on lighting setups, with diagrams and resulting images. I would say that even if you only use studio lighting, at least 75% of the information in the book is still applicable.

I think I remember you having Hotshoe Diaries- is it a similar mix of info to Nikon proprietary as that then?
Sounds like one to add onto my list...

Man, you have a good memory! I had to try to remember where I put that book! :-0

Honestly, it has been a long time since I picked up the Hotshoe diaries. I just went and found it (compare to my having the Speedliter's handbook at my fingertips). HSD seems to have very little speedlight menu information, very little in the way of direct modifier comparisons, and is a great read because each chapter is a verbal discussion of the scenario, method, thought process, and some diagrams or set-up shots. I would say that there is almost no redundancy between HSD and the Syl Arena book. Syl's book is much more nuts and bolts reference book, comparing modifiers (several types of bounce/diffusers are presented, for example, with commentary and sample shots), batteries, mounts, stands, accessories, as well as having a collection of images and diagrams, modifier info for each finished image. I think the two books complement each other, but one does not take the place of the other. I doubt that you would regret the purchase :-)

I just flipped thru and counted: of 391 pages in the handbook, 53 are canon speedlight specific, in that they have images of canon flash menus or camera menus. In many of those cases it is something like setting power levels or zoom. I did not count pages where modifiers are simply shown mounted on Canon lights. There is very little, but some, "flip past" stuff for Nikon folks: Canon camera menus associated with flash use, for example. But there are also portions about using other third party speedlights, and even a page that shows how to mix nikon speedlights in with canon :-)

12/30/2011 08:49:22 PM · #9

Nice info...

I guess I'm going to have to save up and get a proper lightbox

12/30/2011 09:05:45 PM · #10

Originally posted by heavyj:

Nice info...

I guess I'm going to have to save up and get a proper lightbox

Umbrellas are awesome, too. A white reflective/shoot thru combo unit is versatile, and a 63 in silver is nice, too. The PLM system from Paul Buff is good, has some great modifications (japanese lantern, diffusion covers) in addition to the parabolic feature. The Extreme silver provides the most collimated light, but the soft silver is a great general use modifier, and the white can be used in shoot thru mode. All can be ordered with a straight umbrella shaft instead of the AB-speedring mount.

I also have both of these to use with CFL continuous lighting. These work with umbrellas, to.

01/03/2012 05:42:36 AM · #11

I'm curious:

What is the difference the light makes as far as the size of the actual umbrella is concerned?
What does the silver umbrella do that the regular one doesn't, as far as light?

This one I might have the answer to, but when I had my Nikon gear, if I attached a flash to the unit, it would only allow up to 1/250th shutter speed (I think) but with my Canon it will let me go higher. So as I go higher and have my new 200W studio light, I get less and less light in making the subject more and more within proper exposure levels. However, if I go a around 1/400 of a second, the lower portion (1/5 of the photo) starts to become black. Is this the shutter closing before capturing light?

I've got 2 constant lights (White balanced for daylight) 1 studio strobe 200W (Can turn the power down to 1/32 of full) and 1 Canon 430EX ii. I'm really experiment as much as I can (As much as my wife will let me use her as a model) but I'm barely getting the results I was hoping for. I know I have to watch a few more tutorials.

I'm thinking of lighting the room with black curtains and white curtains behind them. There are so many great 'flash photos' out there, I'm hoping to get the hang of things over the course of this year...

Promaster 28-200mm f/3.8-5.6 XR IF

01/03/2012 07:00:26 AM · #12

First things first- file away that shutter duration controls the strength of your ambient light and aperture controls your flash power.
Second- the larger your umbrella (RELATIVE TO YOUR SUBJECT!) the softer the light will be. The caveat is that the size is irrelevant unless you also give the distance to your subject. A 60 inch umbrella will look the same as a 43 inch if you move it far enough away. Same reason why the tiny light mods like the Lumiquest Softbox III look VERY soft, you just need to have them a foot or two from your subject's face.
Silver will provide more light transmittance, and will function as a bounce not a shoot through. Both have their own look to them.

Both Nikon and Canon proprietary are able to use hypersync or whatever each company calls it. Just call it high speed sync. This is a means of sorta cheating the sync speed by causing the strobe to pulsate rapidly, functioning more like a constant light source. This enables higher shutter speeds necessary for some instances. It also robs you of power. Each time you raise your shutter speed your power drops dramatically. These features are only able to be used when you have a Canon with a Canon and a Nikon with a Nikon. High speed sync is a great way to freeze motion, it's also a good way to shoot wide open in bright environments. You can also freeze action by lighting your subject two or more stops above the ambient, which will kill the ambient. The "shutter speed" is then actually the speed of the flash pulse, which will be dictated by the specific flash you are using and the power it is set to. This varies, and you can find charts for flash durations online. Yes, that is the shutter in your photo. It can be integrated into a photo in some cases with negligible effect (not noticeable), but usually it will be a frustration. It is not so much the shutter closing before capturing light as it is the flash pulse is faster than the entire duration of the exposure. The way the shutter works is a narrow slit is created as two curtains drop vertically. As the two curtains drop, with the narrow slit between them, the light exposes the sensor from top to bottom. The flash pulse has already ended once the bottom is exposed, hence a black bar.

Don't follow you on "lighting the room with black curtains," you'll have to clarify what you mean on that one...

atupdate

Pentax K-R

01/03/2012 08:03:13 AM · #13

I bought a couple of the umbrella softboxes a couple of years ago like these (Different Ebay seller though). I use mine with flash units and built a custom horizontal flash bracket to better center the flash head (See DIY Tutorial Here).

They are not sturdy enough to use outside but have worked very well indoors. There is a lot less light loss with this style of umbrella than the shoot through or reflective ones but you can't get as close to the subject as you can with a shoot through. I see that there are 60" ones available on Ebay as well.

Tim