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10/22/2011 12:14:52 PM · #1 |
Is there any technical reason why most digital cameras, DSLR's and even high end compacts, disable Auto ISO when the camera is set to Manual mode? Specifically, what I'd like to be able to do is set the aperture value and shutter speed, and have the camera automatically set the ISO for proper exposure. No camera I have allows this (in Manual mode, at least), and I wonder if it's a technical limitation of some sort, or a design decision because, probably, there's a very narrow range of ISO values that give presentable images. I'm less concerned with that, and the newer digital cameras are producing better looking images at higher ISO values.
Is there a camera out now that does have this feature? (Maybe A/S priority is the better term for it, versus Manual, which is everything set manually as the name implies.) |
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10/22/2011 12:21:23 PM · #2 |
It seems some Pentax cameras have this possibility.
Guessing as you've stated, it's a design decision, but one I wish Canon and Nikon would also adopt as yet another choice! |
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10/22/2011 12:42:54 PM · #3 |
It's easy, learn how to use your metering system and how too read your histogram, problem solved. To many people rely on the camera figuring everything out.. Be creative,learn everything you can about this form of art and the ins and outs of a dslr. That's the art of photography...
It will be a sad day when all a person has to do is Compasition because the camera will do the rest :'(
Message edited by author 2011-10-22 12:47:59. |
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10/22/2011 12:56:14 PM · #4 |
There's certainly no technical reason it isn't usually done. It really would be useful if the user could easily specify something like "keep aperture at f/2.8, keep exposure shorter than 1/50, and let ISO vary between base and 1600."
Bringing ISO into the equation really complicates matters, because you are dealing with three variables, not two. You have three combinations where two of the variables are fixed, and another three where only one is fixed, for a total of six possible "modes." Confusing, to say the least. The better approach would be an intelligent interface as I described above.
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10/22/2011 01:04:29 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by JonoTucker:
It's easy, learn how to use your metering system and how too read your histogram, problem solved. To many people rely on the camera figuring everything out.. Be creative,learn everything you can about this form of art and the ins and outs of a dslr. That's the art of photography...
It will be a sad day when all a person has to do is Compasition because the camera will do the rest :'( |
Yes, thank you, I know how to use my camera. And by proposing to set the shutter and aperture myself, I'm hardly asking the camera to figure out everything. For the particular style of street photography I do, stopping strangers and asking them to hold their poses while I meter the scene and examine historgrams -- well, that takes some of the magic away from the shot.
Currently I use shutter priority, set to 1/640 or faster. My Ricoh camera wide open is f/1.9. That's nice for a lot of things, but it produces awfully soft images and doesn't give me much DOF. I'd rather like to to set it closer to f/2.8 but still have the camera choose the best exposure. Hence my question. |
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10/22/2011 01:07:28 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
There's certainly no technical reason it isn't usually done. It really would be useful if the user could easily specify something like "keep aperture at f/2.8, keep exposure shorter than 1/50, and let ISO vary between base and 1600."
Bringing ISO into the equation really complicates matters, because you are dealing with three variables, not two. You have three combinations where two of the variables are fixed, and another three where only one is fixed, for a total of six possible "modes." Confusing, to say the least. The better approach would be an intelligent interface as I described above. |
Thanks kirbic. What you describe would be the better answer. I'd much rather be able to set ranges -- or floors and ceilings. From my previous post, it would be nice to say open the aperture no wider than f/2.2, then adjust ISO.
Even more than what I described in my OP, I'd like a fully programable interface. But that might be a longer ways off... |
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10/22/2011 01:08:01 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by bergiekat:
It seems some Pentax cameras have this possibility.
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TAv. Cool! Thanks for pointing that out. |
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10/22/2011 01:17:55 PM · #8 |
My 7D allows me to set the ISO to Auto in full manual mode while setting the aperture and shutter speed to my liking. It will automatically adjust the ISO for the correct exposure IF the combination of aperture and shutter speed I select calls for an ISO speed within the capabilities of my camera. Obviously when you select two out of the three elements for proper exposure and only give the camera the ability to adjust the ISO there will be times based on your choices that the sensor is still to sensitive in bright scenes and can't give you a lower ISO, and other times where the scene in combination with your settings is still very dark for proper exposure and the camera can't give you as high of an ISO to expose correctly. There is generally a middle area in the middle aperture range when I can set my camera and have the ISO automatically adjust in manual mode and maintain the proper exposure on the meter.
For instance:
Right now I have my 7D in full manual with a shutter speed set to 1/20sec and my aperture set to f/8. In addition my ISO is set to Auto. I'm pointing it out the window on an overcast day and I can now adjust my aperture from f/3.2 to f/13 and because I have it set to auto ISO the meter is staying right in the center indicating proper exposure without my having to adjust the thumb dial myself.
With that said. The whole purpose of manual is to give you complete control so designing it to adjust your ISO on the fly defeats the purpose.
Dave |
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10/22/2011 01:20:33 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by DCNUTTER:
With that said. The whole purpose of manual is to give you complete control so designing it to adjust your ISO on the fly defeats the purpose. |
Agreed. It would be a misnomer. |
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10/22/2011 01:27:25 PM · #10 |
Nikon listened, and included that feature in the D7000, which also meters with the old manual Ai lenses. It allows use of A, S, and Manual, with "auto iso".
Ranges are selectable as well, so that max iso can be limited. Page 103 in the manual, for 7k users that see this.
Thanks for alerting me to one more cool feature of the 7K.
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10/22/2011 01:34:50 PM · #11 |
That was my point
Originally posted by bvy:
Originally posted by DCNUTTER:
With that said. The whole purpose of manual is to give you complete control so designing it to adjust your ISO on the fly defeats the purpose. |
Agreed. It would be a misnomer. |
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10/23/2011 01:12:14 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by JonoTucker:
It will be a sad day when all a person has to do is Compasition because the camera will do the rest :'( |
Why?
A camera is a tool. When you use a tool, the more helpful it is, the easier the job is to accomplish. After all, the aperture, shutter speed, and ISO settings are just the mechanics of shooting a picture, no real reflection on the outcome. Composition is really what it's all about.
I just don't get the whole point of spending a lot of money to get the latest and best technology if you don't utilize it. You *do* realize that you can create your own auto mode by telling the camera what you want it to do with its auto selection process, right? I will sometimes shoot full manual in perfectly ideal settings, but I have all my cameras set up in a default auto mode I tailor for the way I shoot most of the time. I'm glad my camera can take care of the nuts and bolts of the doinking about to control shutter and ISO......I rarely miss an opportune shot because I'm fiddling with dials.
If you want to take the time to check and make sure your settings are dialed in properly for every shot, knock yourself out, but I'll utilize the capabilities of my cameras to make it easier for me to concentrate on the shot itself rather than what the camera's doing.
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10/23/2011 01:45:56 AM · #13 |
Yes, I have that on the K200, with the option of setting limits on the auto ISO, but not on the aperture or shutter. AND I have only just started to use it.
(Go Pentax. Also the best viewfinder, girls and boys, for its size and price and more. Not that I don't think about the K5). |
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10/23/2011 05:38:01 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by MelonMusketeer:
Nikon listened, and included that feature in the D7000, which also meters with the old manual Ai lenses. It allows use of A, S, and Manual, with "auto iso".
Ranges are selectable as well, so that max iso can be limited. Page 103 in the manual, for 7k users that see this.
Thanks for alerting me to one more cool feature of the 7K. |
Also possible on my 4 year old D300 :) You can set the maximum ISO you want to use, and the minimum shutter speed too. I'd forgotten about this feature but tested it and it works fine. Of course, I wouldn't want to start using ISO 1600 on my camera as the noise is not so pretty, but I'm sure with those newer swankier versions it's a very handy thing. |
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10/23/2011 10:31:58 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by JonoTucker:
It will be a sad day when all a person has to do is Compasition because the camera will do the rest :'( |
Why?
A camera is a tool. When you use a tool, the more helpful it is, the easier the job is to accomplish. After all, the aperture, shutter speed, and ISO settings are just the mechanics of shooting a picture, no real reflection on the outcome. Composition is really what it's all about.
I just don't get the whole point of spending a lot of money to get the latest and best technology if you don't utilize it. You *do* realize that you can create your own auto mode by telling the camera what you want it to do with its auto selection process, right? I will sometimes shoot full manual in perfectly ideal settings, but I have all my cameras set up in a default auto mode I tailor for the way I shoot most of the time. I'm glad my camera can take care of the nuts and bolts of the doinking about to control shutter and ISO......I rarely miss an opportune shot because I'm fiddling with dials.
If you want to take the time to check and make sure your settings are dialed in properly for every shot, knock yourself out, but I'll utilize the capabilities of my cameras to make it easier for me to concentrate on the shot itself rather than what the camera's doing. |
+1
I have my camera set up much the same way, tailored to what I want most of the time. I am not afraid to switch to full auto when I want it. It's just another option, not a surrender of my free will. |
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10/23/2011 01:10:25 PM · #16 |
Auto shooting is great if the shooting is not so critical, and there is little or no time to set up the shots or make manual adjustments. I also keep two preset shooting modes in my D7000, but it's very rare for me to shoot in other than aperture priority 95% of the time or full manual mode 94% of the time. I shoot in program, scene, or other modes probably less than 1% of the time. I have never used "auto iso". It's just kind of nice to know that the option is available if the situation ever demands it though.
I'm just happy that the 7K meters with the classic Nikkor Ai glass in the aperture mode, so I can still enjoy the feel and control of manual focusing using my old glass when I wish to do so.
I used the old Nikkors on a Fuji S3Pro which didn't meter with them, and didn't know how many shots I was missing until I got the 7K that would get the first shot right, without having to chimp the LCD and adjust a notch or two one way or the other before getting the right EV.
Hand cranks worked pretty good on automobiles until they began putting electric starters on cars.
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