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 05/03/2011 12:36:11 PM · #51
Canadians are the only citizens of a Parliamentary democracy in the world that think coalition government or minorities are a bad thing. One of the many bitter legacies we have to thank the Conservatives for.

After 2015, may we forever have minority governments! May we forever have coalition governments!
 05/03/2011 12:37:24 PM · #52
Originally posted by Louis:
Canadians are the only citizens of a Parliamentary democracy in the world that think coalition government or minorities are a bad thing. One of the many bitter legacies we have to thank the Conservatives for.

After 2015, may we forever have minority governments! May we forever have coalition governments!


If we're still sovereign by 2015.
 05/03/2011 12:50:08 PM · #53
The poor is now poorer, the rich is now richer, the middle class goes from being fu*** to extremely fu***!!!
I should stay of the internet for couple of days
 05/03/2011 03:48:08 PM · #54
Blame Toronto and Ontario! :D We did our job in Quebec! Hahaha! Oh wait we always blame Toronto and Ontario! LOL!
 05/03/2011 03:49:40 PM · #55
Originally posted by doctornick:
Blame Toronto and Ontario! :D We did our job in Quebec! Hahaha! Oh wait we always blame Toronto and Ontario! LOL!


This election more than any other that I can remember, shows the flaws of our current voting process. We need voting reform, and we need it yesterday.
 05/03/2011 04:00:40 PM · #56
Here's a nice compendium in The Australian of Canadian Conservative duplicity, hucksterism, and out-and-out crimes.
 05/03/2011 04:02:58 PM · #57
I wish you guys weren't sounding so much like it does down here. :-(
 05/03/2011 05:59:38 PM · #58
Originally posted by Louis:
Canadians are the only citizens of a Parliamentary democracy in the world that think coalition government or minorities are a bad thing. One of the many bitter legacies we have to thank the Conservatives for.


Not all of us my friend. Some of us have no problem whatsoever with minority governments, nor coalitions for that matter.

The sad thing about what just transpired is that the opposition held the government up for ransom, caused an election that was both unwanted and unwarranted. It would seem that the general population recognized the Liberal ploy for what it was and voted accordingly. Mr. Duceppe failed to remember just how astute the Quebec voters are and paid dearly for it.

If you really want to thank anyone for the parliamentary legacy and some truly horrid legislation and financial faux pas over the years, try visiting some of that on the Liberals, both at the federal and provincial levels.

Unlike some, I am not blinded by election promises since I have a full appreciation of exactly who will eventually have to pay for all these pipe dreams.

Ray
 05/03/2011 06:39:29 PM · #59
Originally posted by doctornick:
Blame Toronto and Ontario! :D We did our job in Quebec! Hahaha! Oh wait we always blame Toronto and Ontario! LOL!


Uhm no, it's always Ottawa that gets the blame for federal matters. Blame TO for provincial politics.
 05/03/2011 06:41:22 PM · #60
Originally posted by RayEthier:
The sad thing about what just transpired is that the opposition held the government up for ransom, caused an election that was both unwanted and unwarranted.

Along with all three opposition parties, I wanted that election. So did hundreds of thousands more. Don't we count?

Parliament is our sovereign entity. Parliament found the government in contempt. The government thus lost Parliament's support, and fell. Doesn't the constitution count?

Far from being a ploy, all three opposition parties, I, hundreds of thousands of others, dozens of respected journalists across Canada, and pundits across the Commonwealth found the actions of the government contemptuous, even criminal, and unworthy of Parliament. Are our opinions to be so cynically dismissed? Don't we count?

Sixty percent of Canadians voted against the Conservatives, and for the left. Doesn't that count?
05/03/2011 07:16:42 PM · #61
Originally posted by Louis:
...Sixty percent of Canadians voted against the Conservatives, and for the left. Doesn't that count?

pwn3d
 05/03/2011 07:44:54 PM · #62
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Ugh. Just listened to Harper's victory speech. He's such a two-faced, slimy, venomous snake.


Unlike the rest of the two-faced, slimy, venomous snakes? Just the least of all the evils at the moment.
 05/03/2011 10:47:34 PM · #63
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
The sad thing about what just transpired is that the opposition held the government up for ransom, caused an election that was both unwanted and unwarranted.

Along with all three opposition parties, I wanted that election. So did hundreds of thousands more. Don't we count?

Parliament is our sovereign entity. Parliament found the government in contempt. The government thus lost Parliament's support, and fell. Doesn't the constitution count?

Far from being a ploy, all three opposition parties, I, hundreds of thousands of others, dozens of respected journalists across Canada, and pundits across the Commonwealth found the actions of the government contemptuous, even criminal, and unworthy of Parliament. Are our opinions to be so cynically dismissed? Don't we count?

Sixty percent of Canadians voted against the Conservatives, and for the left. Doesn't that count?


Maybe it is time to have but two parties and force people to vote then... that might fix the problem. Considering the number of elections this country has had in the last ten years, it could be that those that did vote expressed their displeasure.

Ray

Message edited by author 2011-05-03 23:03:05.
 05/04/2011 12:10:11 AM · #64
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Ugh. Just listened to Harper's victory speech. He's such a two-faced, slimy, venomous snake.


Unlike the rest of the two-faced, slimy, venomous snakes? Just the least of all the evils at the moment.


Harper is BY FAR the most evil of the evils. If you can't see that, then you probably can't see 5 feet in front of you.
 05/04/2011 08:48:39 AM · #65
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Ugh. Just listened to Harper's victory speech. He's such a two-faced, slimy, venomous snake.


Unlike the rest of the two-faced, slimy, venomous snakes? Just the least of all the evils at the moment.


Harper is BY FAR the most evil of the evils. If you can't see that, then you probably can't see 5 feet in front of you.


5 feet is further than the 5 inches that you see. ;o)
 05/04/2011 09:07:14 AM · #66
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by Louis:
...Sixty percent of Canadians voted against the Conservatives, and for the left. Doesn't that count?

pwn3d


Using that same logic...70% voted against the NDP, 81% voted against the liberals...

To me all politicians are slime bags who are in it for the fame/money/power and lucrative kickbacks for their cronies and family. Call me a cynic, but it turns out to be true all time whoever is in power.

edited to add: And Ray is absolutely right, taxpayers are ultimately the ones to pay for all the promises and wastage under whatever government.

Message edited by author 2011-05-04 09:11:04.
 05/04/2011 09:39:41 AM · #67
Originally posted by doctornick:
Using that same logic...70% voted against the NDP, 81% voted against the liberals...

Right. But my point was that those parties are to the left of the Conservatives. Sixty percent voted left and centre-left (most voting left), forty percent voted far right. So using that logic, Canada is by majority consensus a leftist country.

My overarching point is that an electoral system whereby a government can rule by majority having only forty percent of the popular vote -- they get to legislate how they see fit over the next four years with no oversight -- is a broken electoral system.

And, yes, that goes for a majority of any stripe. When we had three successive Liberal majority governments under Chrétien, it was still broken, though I admit to being a lot happier. Electoral reform in the nineties wasn't even on the radar, and I didn't understand that there was an issue. Having been exposed to the issue through the 2000s, I see there is an obvious problem, and a social as well as technical move away from other Parliamentary democracies in the world.

Majority governments in the way they are decided in Canada are bad. Minority governments are better. Coalition governments under a reformed electoral system are the best.
05/04/2011 09:55:44 AM · #68
Originally posted by doctornick:
...all politicians are slime bags...

Power to the people !
 05/04/2011 11:04:05 AM · #69
I hear people complaining that only 40% of the popular vote went to the Conservatives. However, if I recall correctly, this is more than the Liberals got when they won their last majority.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Until the election laws are changed this is how it works.

05/04/2011 11:10:39 AM · #70
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by doctornick:
Using that same logic...70% voted against the NDP, 81% voted against the liberals...

Right. But my point was that those parties are to the left of the Conservatives. Sixty percent voted left and centre-left (most voting left), forty percent voted far right. So using that logic, Canada is by majority consensus a leftist country.

My overarching point is that an electoral system whereby a government can rule by majority having only forty percent of the popular vote -- they get to legislate how they see fit over the next four years with no oversight -- is a broken electoral system.

And, yes, that goes for a majority of any stripe. When we had three successive Liberal majority governments under Chrétien, it was still broken, though I admit to being a lot happier. Electoral reform in the nineties wasn't even on the radar, and I didn't understand that there was an issue. Having been exposed to the issue through the 2000s, I see there is an obvious problem, and a social as well as technical move away from other Parliamentary democracies in the world.

Majority governments in the way they are decided in Canada are bad. Minority governments are better. Coalition governments under a reformed electoral system are the best.


Would have been interesting to see what the vote split would have been had the Libs and NDP formed a coalition against the PC... my guess is the PC would have gotten a bigger percentage...
 05/04/2011 12:04:53 PM · #71
I just want to point out that Harper isn't a PC, he's Reform. Please Canada, don't forget this! I can deal with fiscal conservatism, but not social conservatism. :(

Also, he triggered the election with his outrageous budget. They should have done a non-confidence vote well before this point, but he weasely prorogued parliament TWICE to control these events. He is a venomous snake, not a PC in the Canadian sense.
 05/04/2011 12:27:50 PM · #72
Originally posted by doctornick:
Would have been interesting to see what the vote split would have been had the Libs and NDP formed a coalition against the PC... my guess is the PC would have gotten a bigger percentage...

I doubt it. The left didn't vote left because the left wasn't a coalition, the left voted left because the left is left of the right. If you follow.

Only in Canadian Parliamentary democracy is "coalition" a dirty word. Only Canadian Conservatives made "coalition" a negative talking point among their base, and among Canadians who don't understand the productive history of coalitions in our government and our form of governing in general. And only Reichschancellor Harper thinks that elections are "bad", "unwanted", "unneeded", or that people should be "tired" of them.

We should have as many elections as are necessary until we have true representative government informed by the broadest base of the electorate and composed of a coalition of all parties in the House. THAT is working Parliamentary democracy. "Live with what we've got" is a BS response to a broken system.

Message edited by author 2011-05-04 12:30:17.
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