?s about atheism but were afraid to ask

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02/11/2011 01:10:59 PM · #126

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

For the last damn time Doc, atheism is NOT A SYSTEM.

Let's not get derailed Ed. We're having a civil conversation. I never said such a thing. I'm talking about the moral system employed, apparently, by two of the participants (they seemed to give similar answers to how "morality" comes about). Work with me here. Atheists have morals right? And morals are generally informed by a "system". That's what we're talking about...

K3Master

Pentax K-3

02/11/2011 01:24:32 PM · #127

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:
For the last damn time Doc, atheism is NOT A SYSTEM.

Let's not get derailed Ed. We're having a civil conversation. I never said such a thing. I'm talking about the moral system employed, apparently, by two of the participants (they seemed to give similar answers to how "morality" comes about). Work with me here. Atheists have morals right? And morals are generally informed by a "system". That's what we're talking about...

Yes, but you're trying (still, and repeatedly) to railroad everyone into the same set of morals and trying to look at it as if everyone that is atheist is and will be using the same type of system.

Truth is, even among a society struggling to be as common in it's morality as possible, individual moral systems are as different as night and day. There's a reason you struggle with this. It's because there can and will NEVER be a general consensus here. You'll ask 30 different people and get 30 different answers.

If you want to truly understand, you need to stop approaching it with insanity :D That is, you need to stop trying to ask the same questions and look at it from the same point of view you always do, and expect different results.

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

02/11/2011 01:44:40 PM · #128

I think when you have religion in your life, you're told what types of morals you should have. When something you know in your heart is right conficts with something you are taught to believe "must" be wrong because of your religion you run into problems. When you're freed from the constraints of religion, you tend to base your morals more on your own life experiences and those conflicts don't happen. And those morals can even change at different times in you life. Nothing is black and white, and you're never going to define a belief or non-belief system that easily. For example, I believe in assisted suicide because I have seen relatives suffer (and some still suffering) badly. I might not believe this way if I hadn't seen what happens with my own eyes. This has nothing to do with my non belief of god/gods. It has to do with life experiences.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

02/11/2011 01:52:23 PM · #129

But guys, we're talking about the loosest of generalities here. I'm not expecting all the answers to be the same. Ed seems to think I'm going down a road that I'm not going down. Shannon and SP described a system. It's possible they are the only two people in the world that have such a system. It's possible their system generally describes most people who do not follow religion. It doesn't really matter at this point. I'm just trying to see what outputs when you input something into this system and why. What parts do what work and how do we get the result?

We were really having a fine discussion. It would be nice to allow it to carry on.

Louis

Nikon D800

02/11/2011 02:19:45 PM · #130

What arbitrary agenda are you setting (and who says anyone has to follow it)? Kelli's point is perfectly fine, and fits well with everything you've asked about.

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I know I probably deserve the expectation that I'm suddenly going to jump out of the bushes and yell, "AHA! See! You need religion!", but I'm actually not going down that road here.

If that's not what you're up to, then you seem to be seeking validation of your own views and nothing more. You haven't ultimately accepted anything anyone has said. You don't accept criticism of your debating style. You don't accept that you might be offering up fallacies, even when they are most clearly pointed out. And now you don't let people participate in the way they see fit.

Extremely frustrating and ultimately fruitless.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

02/11/2011 02:21:09 PM · #131

I believe

DrAchoo is building an Atheist Robot. He's already built a Religious Robot. Now I just have to figure out what his plans are for these robots.

Louis

Nikon D800

02/11/2011 02:22:13 PM · #132

This.

02/11/2011 02:23:14 PM · #133

Originally posted by Louis:

...you don't let people participate in the way they see fit....

Just another SCalvert/Achoo thread. They should just get a room. ;-P

SaraR

Sony Alpha a7R III

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

02/11/2011 02:24:35 PM · #134

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by Louis:
...you don't let people participate in the way they see fit....

Just another SCalvert/Achoo thread. They should just get a room. ;-P

Yep, I was firmly ignored right at the very beginning.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

02/11/2011 02:25:23 PM · #135

Originally posted by SaraR:

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by Louis:
...you don't let people participate in the way they see fit....

Just another SCalvert/Achoo thread. They should just get a room. ;-P

Yep, I was firmly ignored right at the very beginning.

Did I hear something?

Louis

Nikon D800

02/11/2011 02:26:12 PM · #136

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by Louis:
...you don't let people participate in the way they see fit....

Just another SCalvert/Achoo thread. They should just get a room. ;-P

This!

SaraR

Sony Alpha a7R III

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

02/11/2011 02:26:29 PM · #137

ME! Just me. ;Â¬P

02/11/2011 02:31:57 PM · #138

Originally posted by SaraR:

ME! Just me. ;Â¬P

SHHHH! I'm trying to listen to

Louis's link.

SaraR

Sony Alpha a7R III

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

02/11/2011 02:32:46 PM · #139

~~It was only me~~ ....

Pentax D-FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW

02/11/2011 02:33:00 PM · #140

Fucking Atheists, always messing up a ~~skewed~~ ~~pointless~~ Robot Designing debate.

Message edited by author 2011-02-11 14:34:06.

K3Master

Pentax K-3

02/11/2011 02:33:35 PM · #141

Originally posted by SaraR:

So was I. Achoo even said so. Then he said they'd moved past what I said. What is "moving past" anything really? It's just a fancy way of saying "I don't care what you said.".

Pushing sneezy's buttons is the only way to get him to acknowledge you :D

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

02/11/2011 02:35:13 PM · #142

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by SaraR:

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by Louis:
...you don't let people participate in the way they see fit....

Just another SCalvert/Achoo thread. They should just get a room. ;-P

Yep, I was firmly ignored right at the very beginning.

So was I. Achoo even said so. Then he said they'd moved past what I said. What is "moving past" anything really? It's just a fancy way of saying "I don't care what you said.".

Pushing sneezy's buttons is the only way to get him to acknowledge you :D

We should all gather in the town square and throw rocks cricket-style until we can oust this Achoo guy.

Message edited by author 2011-02-11 14:35:35.

raish

Olympus C-2500L

02/11/2011 02:50:17 PM · #143

Angst schmangst - when the atheists come knocking om my door trying to convert me and my family in my leisure hours, I just declare intifada - why worry, eh?

02/11/2011 03:02:10 PM · #144

Originally posted by SaraR:

ME! Just me. ;Â¬P

Sorry Sara. The answer to your question is "no". That probably became evident as you kept reading.

02/11/2011 03:09:52 PM · #145

I promise I won't ignore you Sara if you weigh in on the slavery issue. :) Nobody seems interested. Slippy is just prepping to stone me. (recalling the Life of Brian)

02/11/2011 03:14:51 PM · #146

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

... the slavery issue....

As an Atheist, I think that slavery is not nice. I would not enslave someone.

02/11/2011 03:16:21 PM · #147

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
... the slavery issue....

As an Atheist, I think that slavery is not nice. I would not enslave someone.

Nobody doubts that. (well, we doubt a lot about you...) The question is, if you buy into this system where there are some universal mores and some cultural or individual ones, where does "slavery is not nice" fall? and why?

02/11/2011 03:18:45 PM · #148

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
... the slavery issue....

As an Atheist, I think that slavery is not nice. I would not enslave someone.

Nobody doubts that. (well, we doubt a lot about you...) The question is, if you buy into this system where there are some universal mores and some cultural or individual ones, where does "slavery is not nice" fall? and why?

Guess I missed that day at Atheist school. :-(