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12/22/2010 04:15:20 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Credentials are bullshit. Show me a decent product. |
Boy, you're really good at distilling things... That's what I was trying to say when I wrote that book in this thread... |
What you meant to say was, "ditto" ;-P |
Again, your effectiveness at succinctness is rather impressive.. |
You mean, "Slippy is Totally Awesome!"
ETA... it is difficult to keep that description short & simple.
Message edited by author 2010-12-22 16:16:16. |
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12/22/2010 04:17:26 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Credentials are bullshit. Show me a decent product. |
Boy, you're really good at distilling things... That's what I was trying to say when I wrote that book in this thread... |
What you meant to say was, "ditto" ;-P |
Again, your effectiveness at succinctness is rather impressive.. |
You mean, "Slippy is Totally Awesome!"
ETA... it is difficult to keep that description short & simple. |
Yeah, he's almost as awesome as me!
ETA: are you enjoying hijacking this thread as much as I am? :)
Message edited by author 2010-12-22 16:17:56. |
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12/22/2010 04:22:01 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Credentials are bullshit. Show me a decent product. |
Boy, you're really good at distilling things... That's what I was trying to say when I wrote that book in this thread... |
What you meant to say was, "ditto" ;-P |
Again, your effectiveness at succinctness is rather impressive.. |
You mean, "Slippy is Totally Awesome!"
ETA... it is difficult to keep that description short & simple. |
Yeah, he's almost as awesome as me!
ETA: are you enjoying hijacking this thread as much as I am? :) |
Maybe we need a separate thread, dedicated to our Total Awesomeness. |
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12/22/2010 04:28:13 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Credentials are bullshit. Show me a decent product. |
Boy, you're really good at distilling things... That's what I was trying to say when I wrote that book in this thread... |
What you meant to say was, "ditto" ;-P |
Again, your effectiveness at succinctness is rather impressive.. |
You mean, "Slippy is Totally Awesome!"
ETA... it is difficult to keep that description short & simple. |
Yeah, he's almost as awesome as me!
ETA: are you enjoying hijacking this thread as much as I am? :) |
Maybe we need a separate thread, dedicated to our Total Awesomeness. |
Meh, I enjoy hijacking with Awesomeness.. We should just resolve to do this at least once a week... :) |
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12/22/2010 04:30:00 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Again, your effectiveness at succinctness is rather impressive.. |
Cory, you have GOT to learn how to spell better. It's ok this time, I'll fix it for you, but use a spell checker from now on:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Again, your effectiveness at suckiness is rather impressive.. |
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12/22/2010 04:31:36 PM · #31 |
RE: ever feel taken advantage of ????
This one time in band camp... |
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12/22/2010 04:32:07 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Again, your effectiveness at succinctness is rather impressive.. |
Cory, you have GOT to learn how to spell better. It's ok this time, I'll fix it for you, but use a spell checker from now on:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Again, your effectiveness at suckiness is rather impressive.. |
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I was waiting for you to join in... Glad to see the whole wrecking crew is together now.... :)
And, eys, I tink I rally shood get a neu spell cheker. |
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12/22/2010 04:34:45 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Again, your effectiveness at succinctness is rather impressive.. |
Cory, you have GOT to learn how to spell better. It's ok this time, I'll fix it for you, but use a spell checker from now on:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Again, your effectiveness at suckiness is rather impressive.. |
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I will accept either spelling. :-P |
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12/22/2010 05:21:17 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Just because they don't have the credentials, or the studio - doesn't mean that they can't turn out stunning work - |
True, and yet for each individual that can do great work there's a thousand others that couldn't make a good photo if their lives depended on it. It's always been 'caveat emptor' when it comes to hiring a photographer, since bad photographers are nothing new, it's just more important now because digital photography and the internet made it easy for anyone, talented or not, to enter the market.
I think John's point about credentials also makes sense because a photographer with the credentials John listed is more likely to have at least some talent, otherwise s/he probably would have left the business before squiring those credentials. Studios, training, and backup gear are expensive, and a decent portfolio isn't created overnight. The average no-talent hack isn't going to be willing or able to put in the time, effort, and expense needed to acquire such credentials.
Originally posted by coryboehne:
I think their portfolio and a reasonable agreement that ensures you don't pay until you're satisfied is a fine solution for non-critical shooting (normal portraits etc..) |
I think it would be unreasonable to expect a photographer to provide a satisfaction guarantee on their work. Photography is so subjective that there's no way that even a great photographer can guarantee to satisfy a given client. I'm sure there are some that offer guaranteed satisfaction, however I'm just as sure you'd play hell getting your money back in the event that you were not satisfied. Most of the photographers I know charge a non-refundable fee up front just to show up.
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12/22/2010 05:27:24 PM · #35 |
| I think this might go in the category of "Lesson Learned". I think all photographers who are starting out have probably been in your position. You learn pretty quickly what you will or wont do again. |
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12/22/2010 06:26:37 PM · #36 |
I was talking to a friend the other day who wanted to get some family Christmas pics with their 8 month old baby, but didn't want to go to one of the studios because they charge "by print" or package. In the past, I've done some portfolio shoots of the couple and their baby and as they're practically family have just given them CDs so they could get their own prints. Apparently, this has spoiled my friend somewhat--and put me in a bit of a tricky situation. When I offer to take photos, I'm happy to do it.....but trying to cram in a two hour shoot during the holidays, let alone the editing, has really made me realize that I need to be charging even friends *something* for my time and effort.
But I think there are a lot of people out there who are looking for just a CD so they can make cards, prints, calendars, etc whenever they want. There's obviously a market for that.....but how to handle it as a pro or semi-pro? I know some people here are willing to do a CD, but charge enough $$ to cover their butts. Maybe this is where professional photography is headed?? |
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12/22/2010 09:45:52 PM · #37 |
| That's the issue. If all people want are snapshots, they'd take them themselves. What they want is polished images - for free. Personally, I'd simply say, I'd love to take them when I'm less busy, since this is my busy time for work. You DO know that I do this for a living, right? |
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12/22/2010 10:59:38 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
RE: ever feel taken advantage of ????
This one time in band camp... |
Just ONCE at Bandcamp? I tried to go to Bandcamp just for that but they said I had no game! |
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12/22/2010 11:04:19 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
RE: ever feel taken advantage of ????
This one time in band camp... |
Just ONCE at Bandcamp? I tried to go to Bandcamp just for that but they said I had no game! |
Matt---did you play tuba? :-) |
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12/22/2010 11:05:24 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by ladyhawk22:
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
RE: ever feel taken advantage of ????
This one time in band camp... |
Just ONCE at Bandcamp? I tried to go to Bandcamp just for that but they said I had no game! |
Matt---did you play tuba? :-) |
I think the problem is, I didn't play any instrument! ROFL. |
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12/22/2010 11:24:50 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by MattO:
I think the problem is, I didn't play any instrument! ROFL. |
The instrument you played just doesn't qualify for band ;)
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12/23/2010 12:13:29 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by MattO:
I think the problem is, I didn't play any instrument! ROFL. |
The instrument you played just doesn't qualify for band ;) |
Awww, snap! |
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12/23/2010 12:19:07 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by MattO:
I think the problem is, I didn't play any instrument! ROFL. |
The instrument you played just doesn't qualify for band ;) |
Whats bad is most of the band played it too! They just played another one. LOL |
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12/23/2010 12:27:09 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by MattO:
I think the problem is, I didn't play any instrument! ROFL. |
The instrument you played just doesn't qualify for band ;) |
Whats bad is most of the band played it too! They just played another one. LOL |
Damned flautists.... |
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12/23/2010 10:19:22 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Photography has forever changed as a business. It used to be an equipment intensive field and the cost of proper equipment kept the average person out. That is no longer true and prices have concordantly dropped. That's not to say there are lots of people with no business selling their work trying to do so, but the prices that could be demanded ten years ago will likely never be attained by all but a select few (and those people could have charged more ten years ago as well).
It's a fact of life.
Ask yourself this. How much do you think a photographer should be compensated per hour of their work (including all work)? $30? $50? $100? If the number is high, ask yourself why? Is there lots of schooling required? Lots of expensive equipment? Specialized knowledge? Risky environment? The honest answer to all those is "no" for the most part. (Yes, the equipment costs money, but I'm talking expensive in a general business sense, not just limited to photography). |
I came to the conclusion of my prices when I originally created my business plan.. I actually used a formula someone provided on this site..I took into consideration my costs, the costs of the prints when I buy them and the length of time I would be spending... So, I only want what I stated prior to the shoot.. My prices are not cheap, but they are fair.. I would never go into a place of business and take an item up to the cash register, then say to the shop owner, I don't want to pay your prices, I want to pay what YOU paid for the item.. lol.. it's just ludicris.. And, I don't think anyone who has a studio or lots of education is automatically deemed a "quality photog".. I just don't.. I've been shooting since I was 16 (I'm 37 now) and originally learned on film.. I was lucky enough to have a dark room and developed my own film & printed my own images.. So, it's not a matter of being a "fly by night" photog.. I DO this as a part time work only because having images done is a luxury anymore..People don't have extra money to get pic's done once a year anymore.. At least, not in my area.. And, I refuse to do senior portraits.. Can't stand dealing with teenagers and their body issues..:-).. So, I consider each gig as it comes.. and luckily, word of mouth is bringing me all the business I care to do..
As an update, after I had to explain to her that this is my business and MY income and regardless of where I buy the prints, the price to her is still the same... She apologized and explained she wasn't trying to cheat me out of any money, she just didn't want to spend a lot on her in-laws.. :-).. So, instead of 10 prints which was her original order, she ended up getting 6.. The outcome was what I hoped for. |
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12/23/2010 10:24:22 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by Rompy:
I think this might go in the category of "Lesson Learned". I think all photographers who are starting out have probably been in your position. You learn pretty quickly what you will or wont do again. |
You can say that again......It was one of those conversations you hope you never have to have.. she caught me on a day where I was just fed up I guess.. I think [user]footmann_forever[/user] said it best.. No one's going to value my work until I start... I just finally got that message.. |
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12/23/2010 11:36:26 AM · #47 |
Years ago I would do some sideline work for friends. (Not photography). A good friend of mine who also did the same type of work gave me some good advice, that I've never forgotten.
If you work too cheap, others will not value your work. If you give it away free, you will have more problems with the customer, than if you charge. If you let your work go for artificially low prices, you will have a hard time raising your rates later. (all your word of mouth advertising will quote that great rate you intended to be temporary)
If you do elect to do something for free, or at cost, make sure they know your "real" rates, and that this is a one time gift or special deal because of..."insert your reason here".
The advice served me well...
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12/23/2010 12:45:13 PM · #48 |
I'm not a pro and sometimes even I feel used up. When I go to weddings or the pre-events I'm content to be the uncle Joe who likes getting funny candids and a few special moments while letting the professionals do their job. The problem is that more than once my 'Facebook quality' pictures end up being circulated as the officials without permission. I don't mind being of use to friends and family when they don't have a pro at hand but I once decided to sit it through an event and I was berated from every corner for doing so. What I do is a hobby and something I enjoy doing for my sake. Wonder how people would feel if I started charging ...
Message edited by author 2010-12-23 12:56:57. |
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12/23/2010 06:53:46 PM · #49 |
I made my personal decision quite a while back that my only financial interest in photography comes from sports and photojournalism. Like the original poster's dislike of senior portraits, I dislike shooting anything that I would normally be hired to do unless its sports or photojournalism. I have been a 'stringer' for my local newspaper for about 7 years and I love doing it. I get paid on a per assignment basis and it typically rounds out to somewhere between $14k and $16k per year give or take. I do portraits for free when my friends ask me to do it. I turn other folks down and refer them to my friends who are professionals. I'll shoot a wedding for a friend for free as well and turn the others away to professionals. Whenever I agree to do one of those free weddings, I always go through the process of telling my friend that I'm not a wedding photographer and explain why so they will be aware of the benefits they might be missing out on by using my free service instead of hiring a professional. Giving wedding photography away is a great wedding gift for a friend... I'll be doing my next one in May it seems...
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