DPC Book - DPChallenge Forums

11/15/2010 11:14:28 PM · #26

Originally posted by JulietNN:

With great pain, tears, frustration, heartache, upset.

What you seriously think this is going to be a walk in the park. You seriously do not think that this is going to piss off so many people. Do you have any idea how many people will be upset. Realistically, this is a bad idea and will cause resentment and pain to so many people. This site is a very close knitted site, closer than I have seen in my years. And A LOT of people are going to be strained by this.

But who am I to judge or give my 2c too.

Juliet, I'm a veteran of this sort of stuff, with poetry. If it's meant to happen, it'll happen. No need to be such a wild nay-sayer.

Skip's proposal is a perfectly valid one, albeit not necessarily the book I'd want to be involved in making. If I want a vanity press, I have one ready to hand. Seriously. I've done plenty of those for others.

Now I like to think this community can get behind doing something a little more meaningful, as an anniversary-marker. Not to say the vanity book can't ALSO be done, but...

In the end it'll be what people want, if it happens at all.

R.

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

11/15/2010 11:29:28 PM · #27

Nah, I am not a nay sayer, just telling you how a whole bunch of people are going to think. I am just a realist.

You seriously do not think that this is going to end up with groups of people hating each other. Cos I can tell you right now, all ready this is dividing people.

This really is about people's ego's. We all have one, we all need one to survive in this industry. You think that Joe Blog isn't going to be hurt/upset that his photo from 8 years ago was not chosen when he won a Blue, just cos it is pretty much crap compared to all the new advances in technology, digital crap now.

lets take Langdons shot of a cue ball. You think that is going to be selected against something that is shown in the last month. His shot is total and utter pure crap compared to todays. [b]BUT[/b] 10 years ago, it was brilliant and won the Blue.

So HOW exactly are you going to represent the last 1o years.

Totally and utter crap shots (that where as good as they could be then with the tech available)), compared to todays??? That is really gonna sell, You will be breeding nothing but resentment amongst us all.

If the truth from one other side of the discussion is a 'nay sayer'

Then so be IT

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

11/15/2010 11:37:20 PM · #28

And another thought.

there are 168 Blue Ribbons a year

So that is 1680 Blue Ribbon winners over 10 years

So lets say an additional 400 speed challenges or what not's.

that would be a [b]2080 page book.[/b]

That is a friggin door stop right there,

How DO you decide what goes in and out. It is meant to represent 10 years How are you going to do that.

Pick and choose?? what about the people that are not put in, who DID win Blue's. What are they gonna say. What about the people that who have not been on DPC for years?? How are you gonna get their permission??

Like I said, Heartbreak all over, for everyone involved.

11/15/2010 11:39:15 PM · #29

Let's start with step one. If the answer is "NO" for the step one, we don't even have to talk about it further.

...but if we get a yes, then we (a couple of volunteers) start sending eMails to blue ribbon winners, we publish only the ones we get permission to.

If there is some money to be make, Langdon could use it for new servers, and some advertisement.

In the book, if we have sections such as "Birds" "Macros" "Scenery" etc., I don't think too many people would complain about the book.

...and yes, it would be a 10th year anniversary book, not free (but not too expensive either)

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

11/15/2010 11:45:08 PM · #30

I want to write the footnotes

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-ED VR

11/15/2010 11:48:26 PM · #31

Originally posted by posthumous:

I want to write the footnotes

I think we should give "Fineprints" to

JulietNN LOL

Sirashley

Nikon D7200

11/15/2010 11:55:30 PM · #32

I think its a great idea. I've only been around since 08, but I've seen some truly amazing images on this site.

I'm going to throw this out there for the sake of argument. If there is really a concern over which images get selected for the book, why not have DPC members submit their favorite blue ribbon and we all vote on it... Afterall, that is the spirit of DPC isn't it... We could vote on it the same way we do a challenge. Seems only fitting...

Either way, I would love to see a book of photos from this site and would definitely purchase it... Hope it becomes a reality

*** 3 edits to get spelling and meaning down... I'm going to bed :P

Message edited by author 2010-11-15 23:59:42.

11/15/2010 11:59:24 PM · #33

Originally posted by FocusPoint:

Well, Leo, personally (and this is just my perspective, of course) I visualize a book that's WAY more than just a representative catalogue of blue-ribbon winners, just like DPC itself is WAY more than just a group of photographers competing. It's a community, it's a phenomenon, it's unique, and the book I visualize would celebrate that. We have some fine writers in DPC, we can include some history, some reminiscing, it doesn't need to be all pictures.

I can see all sorts of stuff. I can see a little essay on DPC's love/hate affair with waterdrops, with a representative sampling of images illustrating "the evolution of the DPC-splash shot". I can see a lighthearted section on "women in scarves". "DPC Enquirer deserves to be mentioned somewhere.

And so forth and so on. This place is an anecdotal gold mine, and the whole history is preserved in the threads :-)

R.

Message edited by author 2010-11-15 23:59:38.

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

11/16/2010 12:10:00 AM · #34

roflmfao

Lines being drawn all ready

Gotta love it!

Sony SAL-16105 DT 16-105mm

11/16/2010 12:11:15 AM · #35

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I agree what you say, however I was thinking something strait forward (simple) stuff than going into details (with stories and such). Blue ribbon winners, so we wouldn't have to fight over why not the others, since there are many blue ribbons, they should be enough. I am sure not everyone will give permission, so, that also drops the huge picture count down (a little).

This is just an idea. I am not even sure if Langdon would give permission to start with, and if he does, then we can discuss more about it to make it a reality (with some more or less ideas), there is still two years to go.

LandzEnca

Samsung TL500

11/16/2010 12:15:23 AM · #36

I have never won a ribbon, and still far away from getting one, so there will be no heartbreak for me.

But FWIW, in any selection process, those who do not get selected would normally be upset, some for a really long time, but most would eventually get over it and simply learn to appreciate those that made it to the cut.

I believe people here in DPC are matured enough to accept whatever outcome the selection process comes up with, provided that the process was done in a reasonably fair manner.

So rather than blindly pushing for the success or blantantly hitting to a full stop this well-intentioned dream project, why don't we all start coming up with suggestions on some guidelines for the selection process? (of course, this is assuming that we have gotten over step 1).

For example, some might say that all blue winners are automatically included, but others may disagree, for whatever reason. If that is the case, we can always put something to a vote. Some may have other ideas that some may or may not agree to. But then again, we can always put something to a vote. We have two years to do that.

In the end, if the selection process involve the whole DPC community rather than a panel of members, if the selection pool would extend beyond the list of ribbon winners, and the selection guideline was agreed upon by ~~everyone~~ a respectable majority, we might actually get this to the printing press.

Message edited by author 2010-11-16 00:17:20.

11/16/2010 12:20:20 AM · #37

Originally posted by Cyberlandz:

I have never won a ribbon, and still far away from getting one, so there will be no heartbreak for me.

But FWIW, in any selection process, those who do not get selected would normally be upset, some for a really long time, but most would eventually get over it and simply learn to appreciate those that made it to the cut.

I believe people here in DPC are matured enough to accept whatever outcome the selection process comes up with, provided that the process was done in a reasonably fair manner.

So rather than blindly pushing for the success or blantantly hitting to a full stop this well-intentioned dream project, why don't we all start coming up with suggestions on some guidelines for the selection process? (of course, this is assuming that we have gotten over step 1).

For example, some might say that all blue winners are automatically included, but others may disagree, for whatever reason. If that is the case, we can always put something to a vote. Some may have other ideas that some may or may not agree to. But then again, we can always put something to a vote. We have two years to do that.

In the end, if the selection process involve the whole DPC community rather than a panel of members, if the selection pool would extend beyond the list of ribbon winners, and the selection guideline was agreed upon by everyone, we might actually get this to the printing press.

Voting is fine idea (I don't have blue either, and I would love to have a DPC book that I can show to friends from time to time, great work in this website). Writing a web-based code for the voting is pretty simple. I think it can be done in a short time.

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

11/16/2010 12:22:13 AM · #38

Ooooooooooooooh the irony all ready

11/16/2010 12:35:28 AM · #39

Originally posted by JulietNN:

roflmfao

Lines being drawn all ready

Gotta love it!

Oh, for CRIPEsake Juliet! It's a freaking DISCUSSION. What's the PROBLEM? Ideas are being bandied about. I assure you I'm not gonna pout and piss if *my* ideas don't carry the day.

Why are you doing this?

R.

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

11/16/2010 12:55:11 AM · #40

Cos you don't see it.

Do you not see , that this discussion, is being held between a very few, singular people.

You are upsetting people, mostly cos you all are discussing the idea with no game plan. You have no ground rules, no firm ideas, you all are tossing ideas around and all ready arguing,,sorry,, discussing,,, this amongst yourselves on how or what or who should be involved.

Do you see anyone else really anyone else contributing to this discussion. One or two people, that is it. No it is all being decided for them no one else is adding to this discussion.

How about, before you all decide what, who, what, when, things are going to be put in place, you get approval from the higher ups. How about having a real game plan first, how about you all answer some serious questions that I have posed first instead of just saying, I am a nay sayer, taking the piss, or whatever.

You all would not accept this in real life in business, you all would not come to the table with no plan, no logistical points, no future plan, HEY, an example,, what about the next 2 year winners, how do they fit in.

Do you not see, that not having something solid, can ruin goodwill and divide. I can tell you know, I got about 50 odd people that totally agree with some of the points I have raised, and they are from long timeers, heavy weighters, higher upers, brown ribboners, to everything in between.

This is a good idea, but you can't just willy nilly do this, come up with a game plan, come up with something,,,, where you allready have 'different' ideas on how to do this. Go about this business wise. Talk in private, set a plan, then present it.

Don't piss off people before the idea has all ready been put in motion.

Edited to add: How about once you have a game plan, everyone that wants to help out or organize it, throws their names in a hat, and the general popular pick out who ever is in the hat , who THEY want to to organize it, edit, choose as a jury. Instead of anyone assuming that they are best for the job.

I mean, everyone wants this to be fair and square don't they. So let the general population of DPC choose.

Just a thought, and my 2c. My opinion is neither here nor there, or course.

Message edited by author 2010-11-16 01:26:40.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

11/16/2010 07:08:34 AM · #41

I thought that's what this thread was about. Coming up with a game plan, finding out who's interested, etc. To do all of that behind the scenes and then bring it to people seems less inclusive and more prone to problems.

I see nothing wrong with discussing it in the open and getting ideas before locking things down in stone.

Perhaps there aren't many people discussing this because they were busy yesterday?

Perhaps people aren't discussing it because they don't have ribbons and think they have no part in this. But there are many parts to play in this process.

I have a few blues. Do I think I stand a good chance of having them published? Probably not. There are way too many blues to fit comfortably in a book.

Yet I find the book idea fun and exciting.

I love the idea of the anecdotes, as well.

Do I think it's a difficult process? Yes. Do I think it will be divisive? Probably. Do I think the site will come crashing down due to people pouting? No. Do I think some people will pout? Definitely. Do I think we should do it, even if some people pout? Definitely.

I think it would be great fun to have the blues and others up on a page for people to put in their two cents. I think it would be fun to have people nominate non-blues for inclusion. I'd love to sift through photos that I've faved and figure out what I'd put in, if I were compiling a book, and I think others would have fun with it, as well.

Message edited by author 2010-11-16 07:11:33.

Tommy_Mac

Nikon D800

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

11/16/2010 07:18:03 AM · #42

Personally I think this thread is like any Meeting I've ever been to where new business is being brought up. (I work for the government so I've been through a lot!...hmmm maybe that's not a good example!) this is the beginning of an idea...people throw in their 2 cents then people start to volunteer. Now for my 2 cents...what if there were only one blue submitted per person? That would certainly cut down on pages. ( yes I know I only have one..but I would be happy with that if I had 10)
I think however that before anyone goes any further Langdon has to chime in.

11/16/2010 07:43:02 AM · #43

Juliet,

Just about everything interesting that I'm aware of that has happened at this site (or any other site I've been involved in), that didn't come down straight from the top, began the way this is beginning now. The idea of a couple, or a few, people "getting together in private" to come up with a plan and then spring it fully-birthed on the rest of the members is anathema to me. You want to "divide" people? That's a good way to do it; no matter the merits of your plan, people will take exception to that approach, vociferously.

Does anyone remember a little while ago, almost 2 years ago I think it was, when Doc Achoo and I decided to "organize" a little initiative to regenerate useful forum participation by recruiting people to spearhead specific threads/activities? We played that one close to the chest because we wanted it to happen all at once in an organized manner, so it would be more visible, and that backfired on us. The initiatives *happened*, that part worked OK, but there was a pre-launch backlash from people who knew something was up and felt excluded, simply because they didn't know what "it" was.

So, Juliet, it seems to be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't proposition", from your perspective, for any individual or individuals to try to make anything substantive happen within our community. Forgive me if I seem a little cranky with you on this. Personally, I think it's stuff like this that keeps a community vital, even if it doesn't pan out in the end. I don't see where it's productive to work so hard to shoot a project down, not on its own merits (or lack of same) but based entirely on the particular approach people are taking to gauging community interest in the project.

R.

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

11/16/2010 08:01:15 AM · #44

fair enough!~

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

11/16/2010 08:16:41 AM · #45

on one hand, i'd love to see a publication celebrating 10 years of dpc. the imagery is simply incredible and the stories that could be told are just as numerous and phenomenal as the image catalog. this place has launched and spawned and inspired so many people in so many ways. the personalities - good, bad, and ugly - have made the forums a unique adventure in itself. a retrospective would be really cool.

however...some SERIOUS NAYSAYING follows...

this, like most good ideas around here, is just another dead-on-the-vine idea. dead because lang and drew never had a plan to commit to doing more than keeping the site going as a weekly set of challenges and a basic forum. sure, there have been improvements and features added, but when you compare the list of what's been done to what's been suggested, this site has hardly evolved at all. it has come nowhere close to reaching it's potential, mainly because everything revolves around langdon doing all the heavy lifting. unfortunately, this site is run more like a hobby than a business.

even though there have been numerous successful collaborative projects over the years (like the alphabet poster, the hidden gems poster, the BT Buddies book, to name a few), those took a TON of effort and a lot of teeth-pulling to get them done...and none of those projects were anywhere close to the scope of what would be involved in a 10-year retrospective of any stripe.

if lang and drew had envisioned or realized the publishing potential of this site and marshaled the talent to put together a publishing group, this site would already have the foundation for a book. a simple newsletter could have led to a monthly magazine could have led to books and collections having been produced all along. but to try to do the 10-year thing now, by itself?

on one hand, anyone (or a group of people) could do their own 'unauthorized' book and leave it to the market to decide whether or not it was worth the effort. some will like it enough to buy it, some might just want to browse it, and some might simply be pissed off. but, as it would be 'about' dpc rather than 'from' dpc, any angst should be directed at the producers, rather than at the site.

on the other hand, getting something officially sanctioned? well, you have to ask yourself why there isn't an annual dpc calendar? why isn't there an annual dpc yearbook? why isn't there an annual best of dpc? why aren't there any dpc anthologies dedicated to specific topics? why isn't there a dpc gear store?

it's never too late, but i think there would be a greater chance of success to start with smaller projects and work out the processes necessary to make things like this work smoothly. after all, you wouldn't start out trying to build the Titanic without first building a canoe or kayak or rowboat or skiff. even with people that are skilled at doing this type of thing, like

Bear_Music, just diving headlong into a project like this on a site like this without working up to it incrementally just doesn't make sense.

as is, from a management perspective, without any infrastructure in place to develop, implement, and support new ideas, i don't see this project making it.

SERIOUS NAYSAYING off

but, i'd love to be proven wrong...

Message edited by author 2010-11-16 08:18:43.

HarveyG

Nikon D800

Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 EX APO IF HSM for Nikon

11/16/2010 08:46:12 AM · #46

Could be fun to some, not to others.
Who is the target (paying) market? DPC'ers? Joe Public? What about sponsors and advertisers?
Where would it be marketed and sold, online? In brick and mortar?
Just a few questions that can be asked at the round table when the Knights get together.

Democracy ought to rule. Polls or votes?

Don't forget this page and this page that have done a lot of the choosing for you already. Yes I know there are reasons why some images and members are there and others are not but it's a start...

Message edited by author 2010-11-16 08:48:20.

LandzEnca

Samsung TL500

Sony SAL-16105 DT 16-105mm

11/16/2010 09:17:06 AM · #47

I have not been involved in DPC as much as others here, but i have seen in this site some of the most beautiful photographs i have ever seen. If there would be a printed collection of the best photos that this site has to offer, i will pay money to have it for my own appreciation of the work of some of our best photographers in this site.

If this does not appeal to the majority of the DPC community, then i think this thread will die a natural death. But otherwise, i hope that those who are interested would say something here and who knows, we may come up with a good number so that langdon and the rest may actually consider it. If we shut this proposal down this early, then we will never know those numbers.

sarampo

Nikon D7100

Nikon AF-S DX 18-105 f/3.5-5.6 ED VR

11/16/2010 09:28:22 AM · #48

Jesus!! How can somebody dare to reply to this thread, when in two days we had a ton of posts (content wise)? It took me half an hour just to read the whole of it and let it sink in.

Juliet, you have to remember that each opinion is valid, and the reason why more people are not responding to this thread is that they are (me is;) respectful of the people that have been around longer.
It's a matter of respect, or as Wendy said, they probably think they have nothing to add.

As Robert said, should this discussion be made private, we would have the same problem as the Fine Art judging, that so many people were pissed off because they weren't even invited to participate in jurying.

The thread was a valid poll for people to give their comments, and although you have as much right as anybody to your opinion, you can be negative but not destructive. You can be critical but not putting down people.
Mind you, this is nothing personal, this is an opinion on your remarks.

And being a site that is mostly run by popular, eye-candy, some people started creating side-challenges.
We could simply do a LP version of the book, A-side, B-side, whereas we would have the popular stuff on one side, and the other side would be a more subjective one.

Who would choose it? Probably a mix between all the community and some scrubbing from older members.
Either way, what we were deciding at first was not the game plan, but the notion, the concept of having a book of DPC.

It would be lovely to have it, doesn't matter much to me who's in it.
One of the first things I looked when I joined the site were the photographer's interviews, and I'm sorry there aren't more of them. I didn't knew who these people were, but I was fascinated by what it was said.

I think it's a very good idea, and we won't have a problem in getting the support of people.

Message edited by author 2010-11-16 09:30:14.

Luci11e

Nikon D40

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G IF-ED VR

11/16/2010 10:00:53 AM · #49

just a thought....someone was discussing how many pages would be in said book
why does it have to be a photo per page? couldn't a couple photos be presented on a page? sure some photos you would want to have full page....others could even be 3 or 4 to a page....especially if were talking coffee table book

just a thought

Message edited by author 2010-11-16 10:01:01.