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11/02/2010 02:52:03 PM · #1 |
| I have a very nice family that I did portraits for earlier in the year. They live in my neighborhood. They ordered quite a few prints when I offered them from the shoot. I got an email today requesting if the mom could buy the file of the group family shot. I've never had anyone do that before. My knee jerk was to say no, but I don't know what to say. She's quite nice and we had a great time but this is business. Has anyone ever encountered such a thing? And if I did do it, what would I charge? I would also place a watermark along the bottom with the name of my business. Hmmmm Any ideas? |
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11/02/2010 03:06:05 PM · #2 |
I really have no experience with clients sitting for portraits, but I don't think I'd ever part with the original file (or a copy of one). If I am to be a photographer today and tomorrow, I would wish control over the execution of my work, and this for artistic reasons as well as for economic purposes. I don't think I or other clients of mine would like to see my work corrupted to anyone's taste or lack thereof, leaving me with no recourse to stem such practice...
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11/02/2010 03:11:55 PM · #3 |
Just thinkin out loud here:
They are actually offering to buy the file, so good on them! They aren't asking for the file as part of their original purchase.
If you really want her to buy more prints from you, then price it high enough that the prints are the more atrractive option. You might ask her how many prints she wants to make, at what price--i.e, she may want to order 100 small prints for Christmas cards from Walgreens. You might decide that you want to get that order from her, instead, or you may decide you don't want to deal with that kind of qty/size. (and she may be wanting to use the file simply to order Christmas cards online from a vendor)
So you could opt to provide a file, for simplicity, etc. If she only wants them for a card order, find out what they need, since you can provide a smaller, pre-sized image that exactly matches that need for an appropriate price. If what she actually wants is a full size, full resolution file so she can order her prints of all sizes elsewhere, then you can make a guess at how many print sales you are losing by selling her the file, and then price the file at that plus a markup.
I'd consider stating a "normal price" for the file that is HUGE, explain that the normal price is _______, but that since she is a good customer, already ordered a lot of prints from you, you are giving her a special discount of the price you determined above. And a disclaimer that other printers' quality may vary.
But it might be worth asking why they want the file--if they want to order big prints somewhere else for cheaper, you may find you can keep their business by offering prints at a competitive price, with a quality guarantee. Or, if it is the simple small file that is really all that is needed for Christmas cards, you can provide that at lower cost, or maybe you can offer Christmas cards too?
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11/02/2010 03:15:15 PM · #4 |
| I'd ask what purpose she wanted it for. Maybe she's just looking for a digital copy to post to her FB page (or similar), or one she can email to far away relatives without having to have prints made and pay postage, etc. If that's the case, I'd just give her a web sized image for being a good customer. Now if she's looking for a large size file that she can make as many prints as she wants, then it's a whole 'nother ballgame. You said they've already bought many prints, so possibly this could be a good repeat customer and you should treat them accordingly. Many places now offer files on disk along with print packages. |
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11/02/2010 03:24:05 PM · #5 |
| I used to hate the idea of selling the digital file but I've noticed that clients really want that option so I sell them for $30.00 per file (around the same price as I would get on a stock site for an "enhanced download") that can be printed up to an 8x10, any bigger and they would need to buy a print. |
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11/02/2010 03:25:41 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
I'd ask what purpose she wanted it for. Maybe she's just looking for a digital copy to post to her FB page (or similar), or one she can email to far away relatives without having to have prints made and pay postage, etc. If that's the case, I'd just give her a web sized image for being a good customer. Now if she's looking for a large size file that she can make as many prints as she wants, then it's a whole 'nother ballgame. You said they've already bought many prints, so possibly this could be a good repeat customer and you should treat them accordingly. Many places now offer files on disk along with print packages. |
See above. :) Absolutely what I was about to say. |
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11/02/2010 03:27:15 PM · #7 |
| I sort of agree about what she wants it for. She is super nice and has no idea about Photoshop, but still. I just dropped her a nice note saying I don't ordinarily sell my large original files, blah blah blah. What would you need them for blah blah blah. I had made a mock up Christmas card a month ago and sent it to her and I never heard a response. Maybe she never got it. I'll keep you posted. THANKS! |
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11/02/2010 03:38:54 PM · #8 |
It might be worth asking what she means by "buy the file." Then you can provide her with what she wants to buy without sending an original file out into the world. Once she tells you what she wants to do you can create the file that will work for that purpose--she probably doesn't know that preparation for Web and for Print are not the same thing. "D
[sorry] posted this after your post. Good luck!
Message edited by author 2010-11-02 15:39:34. |
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11/02/2010 04:22:53 PM · #9 |
Selling the file isn't such a novel idea.
Whilst living in the US, I learned a few "rules" there.
When we moved back to Australia, I needed to find out what my photographer's rights were over here.
Apparently, there are some big differences. For example, if someone is interest in a photo you happen to own (e.g. a landscape you took a while ago), the rules are much the same.
However, if you are HIRED to take photos (e.g. at a wedding), then the CLIENT owns the files, not the photographer. To be fair, I think that makes perfect sense. If I pay someone to take photos of me or my event, I think it is totally reasonable that I then get to keep what I paid for.
YOU have the choice - do whatever you're comfortable with, but I truly believe people want the digital file and will look (more and more) for ways of making sure they get it.
Perhaps it is time to get used to that idea and figure out how we can make it work for us. |
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11/02/2010 05:50:19 PM · #10 |
| Well, I charged no sitting fee, since she was a neighbor and only charged for the prints. I've sent her two mock up Christmas cards, since that's what she wants them for. If she's not happy, I'll charge her for the image file and it'll be more than the cost of the cards. LOL |
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11/02/2010 06:46:15 PM · #11 |
| Realistically project your maximum revenue from all future print sales from this customer. Add 10% (or $100) and let go the file. Unless this is a famous family (Kennedy, Obama, any heir to any throne, Faith Hill, Brett Favre, etc.), then you'll maximize your revenues with a sale of the files. And, you may attract other customers from your expression of good will. |
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11/02/2010 06:57:43 PM · #12 |
| I had some clients vacillate on what size print they wanted to order - basically I was planning on charging $20 for an 8x10 to start - but as they couldn't make up their minds, I offered to sell them the file for $30 on CD, in both RAW and print-ready jpeg formats, and I would delete the file from my library. |
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11/02/2010 07:01:14 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Jutilda:
Well, I charged no sitting fee, since she was a neighbor and only charged for the prints. I've sent her two mock up Christmas cards, since that's what she wants them for. If she's not happy, I'll charge her for the image file and it'll be more than the cost of the cards. LOL |
Since she wants them for Christmas cards, she also may have already selected the vendor, template. This may be a case where overcharging for a small digital file (specially prepped/sized jpeg only) you would lose a client for portraits next year, plus any recommendations she might give about you.
In this case, you might offer to provide "EXTRA ASSISTANCE" (value) by getting the information on where she wants to order them from, seeing what file size/res they need, and making her a jpeg that is specifically ready for that vendor/card selection. 50-100 bucks might cover it, and she will come back to you for the annual family portrait next year. Plus you would get to see where she is ordering from, what they charge, etc. Next year, you could price a Christmas card ready file at the outset as an option she can choose when ordering full size prints from you.
And, she may want the file for one of those newsletter sorts of mailings, so that may be why you didn't get a response to your mock-ups. In that case, a fairly small size, low res jpeg file would suffice, and you could probably do it gratis.
This might be a case where solving a problem for her, making the Christmas to-do list a bit easier for her, will win you a customer for life.
If she were asking for a full size 300dpi image file, then you have to charge a bunch for that, most likely. But this seems a reasonable request. A reasonable price as an answer might be a good long-term result.
In general, I provide a web-ready image, with my name on it, for clients. I prep it, and they can post on facebook, etc, or email it around as they might like. Not really printable, and it means that the image they post is one I prepped, not one they kludged with a scan, etc. |
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11/02/2010 07:02:35 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by snaffles:
I had some clients vacillate on what size print they wanted to order - basically I was planning on charging $20 for an 8x10 to start - but as they couldn't make up their minds, I offered to sell them the file for $30 on CD, in both RAW and print-ready jpeg formats, and I would delete the file from my library. |
Why should you delete it? You are just giving them something they can make prints from. If you are selling them the image and all right to it you are way underpricing. |
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11/02/2010 07:58:05 PM · #15 |
I'll chime in -
Go with an hourly-rate mentality. How long did you take to shoot and PP the photo? 2 hours at $150/hour = $300. (Insert your hourly rate, and don't sell yourself short - you have one of the best eyes in Texas.)
Do not sell the rights to the photo, make it a limited-use license. Don't delete the file. Don't give up your rights to the file.
Take into account what you could realistic glean monetarily from sales of the photo then start negotiation on the fiscal side that benefits you ... keeping in mind that there's no reason (imho) to try to squeeze the client out of excessive shekels.
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11/02/2010 08:06:49 PM · #16 |
| I would say no and explain that files can be edited, and in order to protect the the integrity of your work, you must retain control of the files. If they want to use it for Xmas cards, you could charge them to do the Xmas cards for them. |
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11/02/2010 08:39:55 PM · #17 |
I guess I'm just getting weird and soft in my old age..... What earthly use is the file to you? How much more will it gain you in goodwill if you give her the file versus denying it to her. The average person doesn't get the whole artistic purity/inalienable rights thing with image files anyway. You have to decide whether the principle of your rights is worth it over making a neighbor/friend happy, especially over an image that you personally may have little, or no, use for down the road anyway.
I shoot hundreds of images a month, and I'm sure I jettison images that people would be thrilled to have enlarged, matted, and framed, yet they didn't suit me. I've given image files away, and been glad that I have simply because of the warm feelings generated.
Just my $0.02 US......YMMV.....
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11/02/2010 08:42:22 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I guess I'm just getting weird and soft in my old age..... What earthly use is the file to you? How much more will it gain you in goodwill if you give her the file versus denying it to her. |
The artist may want to use it as a promotional piece. I've heard of others giving the customer a printable file for about twice the charge for an 8x10 print or so. The person did offer to pay -- the question is what is a reasonable price, which is why people asked about intended use. If the person wants to make bulk prints or cards or use it on a family website then about $30 sounds right. If the person has an offer to use it in packaging (say one of the standard images you get in pre-made frames) for a few thousand in royalties, then a somewhat higher price would be indicated ...
Message edited by author 2010-11-02 20:45:22. |
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11/02/2010 09:18:55 PM · #19 |
I've designed some cards and she likes one, and I didn't hardly make any money on them, so everyone should be happy! LOL I think she was afraid that the cost per Christmas card would be like the cost of 50 5 X 7's. I think I eased her mind when I gave her the price.
I'm still funny about giving away files though, Jeb. It's just me. :) |
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11/03/2010 05:53:28 PM · #20 |
There's an easy way to stop feeling funny about selling files and that's to charge enough to make it worth your while. Not for the same price you'd sell 1 or 2 8x10s. Lemme tell you, when clients have given me a couple thousand bucks for their digital files, they can take them home and run them through 97 shitty Photoshop filters and then HDR them to the moon and back and I just don't care. We both get what we want. And I'm selling printing rights, not copyright. The photo is still mine.
I wouldn't sell an individual file for under $100. If you're worried about low sales, you can offer the digital file only after they've hit a certain price point in prints or just include it after a certain price point.
You don't have to sell anything you don't want to, which is kind of the fun of having your own business. But people want digital and those wants aren't likely to decrease. We're going that direction. |
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11/03/2010 06:03:06 PM · #21 |
As others have mentioned people just expect that to be an option nowadays especially if you're shooting consumer/retail (i.e. weddings, senior portraits, etc). It would be different if you're selling art.
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11/06/2010 05:55:00 AM · #22 |
The company that hosts my online sales periodically sends out marketing analytic reports that detail trends in what people are buying and requesting. For the past few years, digital files have topped the lists; as  mk noted, this is not going to change. If someone/anyone is serious about the 'Business of Photography' they simply must have a strategy for dealing with providing digital files.
There is no one-size-fits-all solution; what works in one market might not in others. Once you have something in place that works, though, you can be picking up a lot more revenue - revenue that you would NOT have had without a solution in place. It's really not that difficult: 1) work out scenarios that fit your situation; 2) do some marketing; and 3) fine-tune your products and prices.
I'll use my situation as an example. I primarily market myself as an event photographer (sports, corporate, private, editorial) where I get paid for shooting the event. As an add-on service, I offer print/etc fulfillment services so that my clients don't have to deal with anything other than directing people to a preset URL. To keep things simple (for me), I treat weddings, family events, and portrait sessions the same way (pay me to shoot, pay a reasonable price for prints, etc.).
When clients started asking for digital files, I started asking, "What do you want them for?" As I started to get more requests, I decided to get proactive and started doing some 'sideline surveys,' asking people what would interest them and what would they be willing to pay. It took about six months for me to get to where I was comfortable. This is where I landed:
*Facebook profile images
*Images for email and/or desktop wallpaper
*Images good enough to make small gift objects (coffee mugs, luggage tags, etc)
*High-res images for up to 11x14 prints
My hosting company offers modifiable digital licensing templates that allow me to spell out exactly what clients can and can't do with the digital files they license (that's right..."license", not "purchase"). I also embed the licensing details in the file they receive, as well as customize the copyright notice. (Protection may or may not deter, but why leave your doors unlocked?)
In the past year that I've offered digital downloads, I've picked up significant additional revenue - some of which came not from digital downloads, but simply from the additional marketing initiatives. Most of it represents sales I never would have had otherwise. In fact, just last night I got an order for an image 'to make small stuff' from a PJ assignment I shot last April!
One other benefit of at least offering the digital option is that not only does it opens the door for discussion for other uses, it also gives you a foundation for negotiation - you don't have to start each conversation from scratch. I've had a number of off the menu requests where I've been able to respond, "That's interesting; I normally charge $xx.xx for something similar; let's see what we can do for you." Last week I had a call from a woman wanting to include a few of my images in her annual Christmas book that she makes for her family.
As for pricing, I can't help you. It really depends on your market, what they want, and what they're willing to pay. As you've seen in this thread, there are lots of suggestions. It will take some experimentation and some time to find what works consistently for you.
Lastly, one thing I have not dealt with is providing a complete disc of printable images from an event. That will probably happen some day, but not today. I do use my animoto account to build pretty cool slideshows, though (like this one).
If you are interested, feel free to check out my online sales hosting company, Exposure Manager.
Message edited by author 2010-11-06 05:57:30. |
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