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09/11/2010 01:19:34 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by senor_kasper:
Here is an example of somebody that, after 9 years, still completely fails to grasp the meaning and implications of the event. You go ahead and forget it, Fiora, most of the rest of us never will, or should. |
And here is an example of someone who can't even be bothered to properly read and understand the post he is criticising, preferring instead to melodramatically jump in with both feet all guns blazing.
For what it's worth i thought  Fiora raised some very good points. And i can also see  K10DGuy's point as well.
It is, of course a tragedy and those 3000 innocent people murdered should not be forgotten. Neither should the 100,000 innocent civilians that have been murdered in Iraq over the last few years as a direct result of that attack. It's an awful ugly situation that only escalates with each new atrocity no matter who it's from or against. I think that during memorial days like this it is good to remember that there are very few winners on any side when it comes to violence.
Message edited by author 2010-09-11 13:20:41. |
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09/11/2010 01:22:36 PM · #27 |
Here are 3,497 reason's why it should not be forgotten:
In total 3,497 people died in the attacks on 11 September 2001.
2,735 civilians in the World Trade Center died
87 passengers and crew members aboard American Airlines Flight 11 that hit the North Tower
60 passengers and crew aboard United Flight 175 that hit the South Tower
343 New York City firefighters and rescue workers and 23 New York City law enforcement officers, 47 Port Authority workers and 37 Port Authority Police Officers, lost their lives when they rushed in to save the victims in the World Trade Center
36 passengers and crew aboard United Flight 93, who gave their lives stopping four hijackers over Pennsylvania
64 passengers and crew aboard American Airlines Flight 77 that crashed into the Pentagon, killing them and 125 people in the building.
In addition
19 - the terrorists who hijacked four airliners and murdered 3,497 people - also died.
Message edited by author 2010-09-11 13:23:38. |
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09/11/2010 01:43:29 PM · #28 |
Learning from the past is something that shapes the future and forgetting 9/11 is saying to the terrorists 'you win'.
I live In England, but I believe if we forgot that day, so many answers about people who died that day would be forgotten, and forever remain unanswered. This is unfair on them and their families.
I don't believe for a second that forgetting it will solve any problems, it would probably create more.
Neither should we forget the people who died in the two planes that hit the pentagon and landed in Pennsylvania.
Message edited by author 2010-09-11 13:45:25. |
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09/11/2010 02:08:05 PM · #29 |
I think that apart from so many people dying, it was actually the enormous fact that all those people died within a 2.5 hour period. There is no other country in the world that has lost that many people in 2.5 hours.
It was the sheer volume of human disaster that struck us all so very hard.
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09/11/2010 02:11:52 PM · #30 |
| I choose not to forget, but I don't let the memory cripple me either. I get e-propaganda constantly from my fundamentalist "Christian" cousins reminding me that all Muslims are evil. They're all out to get us. Is this how we should not ever forget? I think not. |
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09/11/2010 02:13:55 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
I think that apart from so many people dying, it was actually the enormous fact that all those people died within a 2.5 hour period. There is no other country in the world that has lost that many people in 2.5 hours.
It was the sheer volume of human disaster that struck us all so very hard. |
Yes, along with the obvious global significance, as others have mentioned. Also i think it was the instant new media angle. Watching such a tragedy almost as it happened, and also the eyewitness footage afterwards. It really did herald in the 21th Century in a way. |
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09/11/2010 02:15:37 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by bvy:
I choose not to forget, but I don't let the memory cripple me either. I get e-propaganda constantly from my fundamentalist "Christian" cousins reminding me that all Muslims are evil. They're all out to get us. Is this how we should not ever forget? I think not. |
I think that is maybe K10DGuy's point in his first post. At least that's how i read it and i totally agree.
Message edited by author 2010-09-11 14:16:05. |
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09/11/2010 02:19:59 PM · #33 |
When you bury a family member or loved one do you ever visit the grave site?....or do you just forget?
Message edited by author 2010-09-11 14:37:07. |
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09/11/2010 02:24:14 PM · #34 |
People from 70 countries died on that day in NY including 24 from Canada, where K10DGuy lives.
Message edited by author 2010-09-11 15:37:21. |
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09/11/2010 02:28:43 PM · #35 |
My parents where in Italy boarding a flight to England, they where on the plane and strip searched immediately. There was immediate implications felt all around the world.
Even Tucson was put under a Red Terror alert, because of Raytheon (Missile Systems) there was a sudden massive increase in military jets flying, police, etc etc
and you are right Clive, it was the TV programing. Every single station carried live footage every second of that day. I remember watching live the second plane going into the Tower. We watched as people died in front of us, right there, live. No one had ever seen broadcasting like this before.
It changed broadcasting forever, it was 24 hour bombardment all week, for weeks on end. PBS was the first station to go back to a somewhat regular programing,. after about 4 days (I think), they showed old non violent movies. |
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09/11/2010 03:27:43 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
I think that apart from so many people dying, it was actually the enormous fact that all those people died within a 2.5 hour period. There is no other country in the world that has lost that many people in 2.5 hours. |
Don't ever forget... Japan in 1945, China in 1976, Iran in 2003, Indonesia in 2004, Haiti in January of this year... |
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09/11/2010 04:02:29 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Don't ever forget... Japan in 1945 |
Yes, indeed. I believe Hiroshima lost around 50,000 and Nagasaki around 30,000 in the bomb impacts alone (with double-triple that number dying later). The scale is horrifying but then, any amount is. |
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09/11/2010 04:16:26 PM · #38 |
9/11 won't be forgotten, be sure of that and it is not just America that will remember, it had a profound effect all around the world. Modern media brings instant horror to our screens as these drama unfold. 9/11 will take its place in the history books, along with other major disasters and acts of war and terrorism.
There is a time to reflect on the past, but can also act as a spur to make sure it doesn't happen again in the future. The world is torn by grief enough, Mother Nature has a way of dealing it out by the spade full. Perhaps we should all be making the effort to bring peace and understanding to the people of the world, instead of fuelling the flames of separatism and hatred. It isn't just a world divided, it is countries, counties, towns and families.
It is time to embrace our differences, lay down weapons and try to understand those who think and act differently to ourselves.
May your god(whom ever he/she/it maybe)go with you in peace. |
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09/11/2010 04:57:18 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Don't ever forget... Japan in 1945 |
Yes, indeed. I believe Hiroshima lost around 50,000 and Nagasaki around 30,000 in the bomb impacts alone (with double-triple that number dying later). The scale is horrifying but then, any amount is. |
Note that the death toll resulting from the 9/11 attacks is absolutely dwarfed by the death toll of the response. While we mourn the friends, family and countrymen lost in such a deliberate act of terrorism, it's also important to reflect on the equally deliberate (and far greater) loss of life inflicted in its name. If the tragic deaths of several thousand civilians here can be justification for a decade of war and Islamaphobia, just imagine what the loss of hundreds of thousands of civilians can inspire in an area with 1/10th the population. |
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09/11/2010 05:41:00 PM · #40 |
| I live in Australia and I will never forget this tragedy, and on this terrible anniversary my thoughts are with Americans, and everyone else affected by this tragedy. We were asleep when this disaster began to unfold, but my son rang us and woke us with the news, and then we sat, dumbfounded, and watched the coverage of what was obviously a world changing event. We can't forget and vigilance is needed to keep such a thing happening again. That's not to justify paranoia, but just to be realistic. We all, as a global community need to temper our vigilance with commonsense and respect for humanity, but we sure do need to be careful. |
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09/11/2010 06:09:09 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Here are 3,497 reason's why it should not be forgotten:
In total 3,497 people died in the attacks on 11 September 2001.
2,735 civilians in the World Trade Center died
87 passengers and crew members aboard American Airlines Flight 11 that hit the North Tower
60 passengers and crew aboard United Flight 175 that hit the South Tower
343 New York City firefighters and rescue workers and 23 New York City law enforcement officers, 47 Port Authority workers and 37 Port Authority Police Officers, lost their lives when they rushed in to save the victims in the World Trade Center
36 passengers and crew aboard United Flight 93, who gave their lives stopping four hijackers over Pennsylvania
64 passengers and crew aboard American Airlines Flight 77 that crashed into the Pentagon, killing them and 125 people in the building.
In addition
19 - the terrorists who hijacked four airliners and murdered 3,497 people - also died. |
And the total number of deaths keep accumulating from that day. How many thousands of military personnel have the US lost (and been permanently maimed) since 911 in Iraq and Afghanistan, all in the name of fighting the terrorists? And nine years later we feel how much safer? Maybe this is what K10guy meant. |
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09/11/2010 06:20:23 PM · #42 |
There are a lot of significant things that don't stay in the public memory for long.
E.g. October 3 and 4, 1993. If anyone can tell me the significance of those days I would be surprised.
9/11 is not going to be forgotten though. At least not in our life time.
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09/11/2010 06:36:59 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Here are 3,497 reason's why it should not be forgotten:
In total 3,497 people died in the attacks on 11 September 2001.
2,735 civilians in the World Trade Center died
87 passengers and crew members aboard American Airlines Flight 11 that hit the North Tower
60 passengers and crew aboard United Flight 175 that hit the South Tower
343 New York City firefighters and rescue workers and 23 New York City law enforcement officers, 47 Port Authority workers and 37 Port Authority Police Officers, lost their lives when they rushed in to save the victims in the World Trade Center
36 passengers and crew aboard United Flight 93, who gave their lives stopping four hijackers over Pennsylvania
64 passengers and crew aboard American Airlines Flight 77 that crashed into the Pentagon, killing them and 125 people in the building.
In addition
19 - the terrorists who hijacked four airliners and murdered 3,497 people - also died. |
And the total number of deaths keep accumulating from that day. How many thousands of military personnel have the US lost (and been permanently maimed) since 911 in Iraq and Afghanistan, all in the name of fighting the terrorists? And nine years later we feel how much safer? Maybe this is what K10guy meant. |
Not just US personnel Olyuzi,....21 other countries lost military personnel as part of the coalition forces and also dont forget Afghan civilians killed(8,800) and Iraqi civilians(860,000) killed since the start of the conflicts also..
Message edited by author 2010-09-11 18:37:56.
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09/11/2010 06:38:08 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Citadel:
There are a lot of significant things that don't stay in the public memory for long.
E.g. October 3 and 4, 1993. If anyone can tell me the significance of those days I would be surprised.
9/11 is not going to be forgotten though. At least not in our life time. |
Had to google that one.. Even then I only had the faintest knowledge of the event. |
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09/11/2010 06:45:36 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by Citadel:
There are a lot of significant things that don't stay in the public memory for long.
E.g. October 3 and 4, 1993. If anyone can tell me the significance of those days I would be surprised.
9/11 is not going to be forgotten though. At least not in our life time. |
Had to google that one.. Even then I only had the faintest knowledge of the event. |
Its the topic of a rather interesting movie which apparently for the most part is historically accurate. |
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09/11/2010 06:57:05 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by wingyisleeds:
...and also dont forget Afghan civilians killed(8,800) and Iraqi civilians(860,000) killed since the start of the conflicts also.. |
I think that number (860,000) is for dead and severely wounded. The current number of civilian deaths listed by Iraqbodycount.org, an independent project, is around 100,000. Still 100,000 too many of course.
Message edited by author 2010-09-11 18:59:00. |
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09/11/2010 07:04:18 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
343 New York City firefighters and rescue workers
My wife's uncle...NYFD HAZMAT1, died that day. He was in the stairwell on his way up to try to save people when the building came down.
Heroes. Running in while everyone else runs out. Never to be forgotten.
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09/11/2010 07:05:34 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by JulietNN:
I think that apart from so many people dying, it was actually the enormous fact that all those people died within a 2.5 hour period. There is no other country in the world that has lost that many people in 2.5 hours. |
Don't ever forget... Japan in 1945, China in 1976, Iran in 2003, Indonesia in 2004, Haiti in January of this year... |
Or Pearl Harbor, or the Armenians, or so many others. (Bosnia, Serbia, Sparta, the Mayans... the list is so terribly long.)
Those who do not remember the past are condemned repeat it. - George Santayana
The other thing that would be worth remembering, is that what we oppose are the ideas and actions of leaders. People are just that, people. They live much as we, trying to better their life as best they can; and hoping for a better life for their children. They laugh, they cry, they rejoice, they mourn, they bleed suffer and die just as we.
ETA: Perhaps Japan should remember Pearl Harbor and Bataan, and we Americans Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Perhaps if we all remembered what we have done to others, instead of what justifies our revenge, the long term result might be better.
Message edited by author 2010-09-11 19:15:38.
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09/11/2010 07:10:41 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
The current number of civilian deaths listed by Iraqbodycount.org, an independent project, is around 100,000. Still 100,000 too many of course. |
Regardless, that's a death toll from fighting an enemy that didn't exist. Iraq wasn't involved in the 9/11 attacks at all. |
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09/11/2010 07:27:02 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by JulietNN:
I think that apart from so many people dying, it was actually the enormous fact that all those people died within a 2.5 hour period. There is no other country in the world that has lost that many people in 2.5 hours. |
Don't ever forget... Japan in 1945, China in 1976, Iran in 2003, Indonesia in 2004, Haiti in January of this year... |
Do casualties of war and casualties of natural disasters belong in the same category as cold blooded murder? |
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