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09/09/2010 05:47:01 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by keenon:
One brainless idiot radical is going to start a third world war... |
Bush is out of office. |
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09/09/2010 05:48:49 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
Read the news. It looks like it's not going to happen after all. |
Hum, and it seems it's in response to the "ground zero mosque" being relocated. That's news too. |
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09/09/2010 05:49:29 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by keenon:
One brainless idiot radical is going to start a third world war... |
Bush is out of office. |
Baaaaaaaaaa Zing! :-)) |
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09/09/2010 05:50:08 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
If this whole thread isn't a joke, then I'm not sure what it is... |
What it is Doc, is a reflection of the religious intolerance exhibited by some zealots that live in this world. Sad, but nonetheless true.
Ray |
Come down to earth Ray. You don't make such a point by offering to burn a Bible. The other thread is doing a much better job of discussing it. This thread is the freak show. |
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09/09/2010 05:52:38 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
This thread is the freak show. |
Precisely why I dropped in!
:-) |
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09/09/2010 05:59:25 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
Read the news. It looks like it's not going to happen after all. |
Hum, and it seems it's in response to the "ground zero mosque" being relocated. That's news too. |
Sounds like a good trade to me. Two extremely insensitive actions stopped. That's a win-win. |
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09/09/2010 06:08:00 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
If this whole thread isn't a joke, then I'm not sure what it is... |
What it is Doc, is a reflection of the religious intolerance exhibited by some zealots that live in this world. Sad, but nonetheless true.
Ray |
Come down to earth Ray. You don't make such a point by offering to burn a Bible. The other thread is doing a much better job of discussing it. This thread is the freak show. |
Rather sad to see that you perception is such that you can't understand that this type of action is reflective of not only the individual undertaking this specific action, but rather one that is viewed by many of the "penchant" of the collective of religious zealots that meander throughout this world.
Ray |
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09/09/2010 06:14:31 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by keenon:
Originally posted by Melethia:
I've heard they're down with it. Also heard they like sugary fruit punch drinks. |
Hmmm - perhaps someone should pass out some of those sugary fruit punch drinks. |
Foul! According to Jac, it is reprehensible to joke about killing people.
Originally posted by RayEthier:
What it is Doc, is a reflection of the religious intolerance exhibited by some zealots that live in this world. Sad, but nonetheless true. |
If we are including "this world", I would have to argue that the U.S. is by far among the most tolerant countries / people. It cracks me up how nobody here criticizes countries that rule under Sharia law for being intolerant. They are inherently intolerant. How many Synagogues are there in Iran or in any of the other muslim countries? For that matter, how many Christian churches? I hear people defending muslims with this talk of "only a minute portion of them are dangerous extreme terrorists" First off, that minute portion percentage-wise is small, but the actual number of them who believe that those who do not follow Islam should be killed and that it is their duty to kill them is quite large. Secondly, I would argue that the number of Christian "extremists" (for whom, the definition of the word is broadened beyond reason) is equally as minute or smaller.
While I don't agree with what this guy is doing, I think it is the media attention that is causing the problem. The act itself, is no different (I am guessing) than drawing a cartoon of Muhammad in the eyes of Islamists. I didn't see the mobs of non-Muslims attacking the cartoonists like they are this guy in Florida. And it's already been said that if this was a bible burning, it would not even be news - Yet lots of people in this debate are calling out Christians as a whole, as intolerant. Laughable and insulting actually. My own experience has shown that Atheists are the least tolerant of any religious group and I used to be one. That has only been reaffirmed by my experience on this site. But I try to avoid getting into heated debates about what we don't (and never will) agree on and appreciate the things we have in common or that aren't so polarizing.
IMO, the fact that we are making a big deal out of anyone burning the koran is what is emboldening muslim extremists to have an excuse to attack us in some violent way (as if they need one). And some of you will blame this nut in Florida instead of the people who actually commit the violence. *shakes head* The fact that our enemies can threaten or beat us into complying with their will is what incentivizes them to act.
That's my take on things, anyway. I try to stay out of these things as much as possible, but sometimes I feel compelled. I respect and consider everyone's opinions including the ones I disagree with and am always open to things that might change my mind. |
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09/09/2010 06:19:02 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
Read the news. It looks like it's not going to happen after all. |
Hum, and it seems it's in response to the "ground zero mosque" being relocated. That's news too. |
Well I was spewing while that news was being posted, so... nevermind. ;-)
In reality though, because of what the media has done, now there will be all kinds of nuts coming out threatening to burn the koran and/or burning it just to get their 15 minutes. Heck, it might even be worth setting up a YouTube account and faking it all just to get the ad revenue. |
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09/09/2010 06:36:35 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
My own experience has shown that Atheists are the least tolerant of any religious group and I used to be one. That has only been reaffirmed by my experience on this site. |
I suspect for some reason that I'm potentially responsible for that affirmation, so if I may comment. Atheism is not a religion. The only thing that describes any atheist accurately is that they do not believe in any gods. People describing themselves as atheist may be individually intolerant of religious adherents, politically motivated religious zealots, or religion in general, but their behaviour is not indicative of any group that could be labelled atheist, any more than a religious person's behaviour is individually indicative of the worthiness of the religion they represent. |
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09/09/2010 06:37:44 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
My own experience has shown that Atheists are the least tolerant of any religious group and I used to be one. That has only been reaffirmed by my experience on this site. |
I suspect for some reason that I'm potentially responsible for that affirmation, so if I may comment. Atheism is not a religion. The only thing that describes any atheist accurately is that they do not believe in any gods. People describing themselves as atheist may be individually intolerant of religious adherents, politically motivated religious zealots, or religion in general, but their behaviour is not indicative of any group that could be labelled atheist, any more than a religious person's behaviour is individually indicative of the worthiness of the religion they represent. |
You're an atheist?? |
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09/09/2010 06:49:32 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
What it is Doc, is a reflection of the religious intolerance exhibited by some zealots that live in this world. Sad, but nonetheless true. |
If we are including "this world", I would have to argue that the U.S. is by far among the most tolerant countries / people. |
No disagreement from me in that regard, and that is exactly what I was alluding to when I wrote that comment...zealots exist in every religion.
Ray |
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09/09/2010 06:52:02 PM · #38 |
| This is the story that should be getting all the attention. |
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09/09/2010 06:57:10 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
My own experience has shown that Atheists are the least tolerant of any religious group and I used to be one. That has only been reaffirmed by my experience on this site. |
I suspect for some reason that I'm potentially responsible for that affirmation, so if I may comment. Atheism is not a religion. The only thing that describes any atheist accurately is that they do not believe in any gods. People describing themselves as atheist may be individually intolerant of religious adherents, politically motivated religious zealots, or religion in general, but their behaviour is not indicative of any group that could be labelled atheist, any more than a religious person's behaviour is individually indicative of the worthiness of the religion they represent. |
As long as I can reply that whatever behavior is being castigated is part of the Second Free Southern Baptist - Reformed congregation and thus does not represent my own views.
This is a common atheist dodge as soon as they are generalized, and yet they will often generalize themselves (already let us count the comments about "religious intolerance"). Face it, it's a religion. You got your high priests, your books, your zealots and your missionaries. You even have that cute little fish with the legs for your cars. And every winter solstice you commemorate your religion with a plaque in the capitol about there being no gods.
Message edited by author 2010-09-09 18:58:29. |
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09/09/2010 07:04:40 PM · #40 |
You can ignore what I've already written if you like, but I've just said that atheism is no more described by those who are atheist than theism is described by theists. The fact that some atheists are assholes, or they think Sam Harris ought to be worshipped, says nothing about what "atheism" is. Atheism simply requires that the individual involved does not believe in gods. If not believing in gods is a religion, I suppose not collecting stamps is a hobby, as they say.
Generalizations like yours are neither helpful nor intelligent. |
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09/09/2010 07:07:24 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Louis:
You can ignore what I've already written if you like, but I've just said that atheism is no more described by those who are atheist than theism is described by theists. The fact that some atheists are assholes, or they think Sam Harris ought to be worshipped, says nothing about what "atheism" is. Atheism simply requires that the individual involved does not believe in gods. If not believing in gods is a religion, I suppose not collecting stamps is a hobby, as they say.
Generalizations like yours are neither helpful nor intelligent. |
That's my FAVORITE hobby.
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09/09/2010 07:18:18 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by Louis:
You can ignore what I've already written if you like, but I've just said that atheism is no more described by those who are atheist than theism is described by theists. The fact that some atheists are assholes, or they think Sam Harris ought to be worshipped, says nothing about what "atheism" is. Atheism simply requires that the individual involved does not believe in gods. If not believing in gods is a religion, I suppose not collecting stamps is a hobby, as they say.
Generalizations like yours are neither helpful nor intelligent. |
Well, one post by you does not constitute a trend. I'll take this newfound abhorrence to generalize as I see it. Your argument, however, smells a bit like The Real Scottsman. Incidentally, that argument was invented by an atheist deist. ;P |
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09/09/2010 07:22:51 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Louis:
You can ignore what I've already written if you like, but I've just said that atheism is no more described by those who are atheist than theism is described by theists. The fact that some atheists are assholes, or they think Sam Harris ought to be worshipped, says nothing about what "atheism" is. Atheism simply requires that the individual involved does not believe in gods. If not believing in gods is a religion, I suppose not collecting stamps is a hobby, as they say.
Generalizations like yours are neither helpful nor intelligent. |
Well, one post by you does not constitute a trend. I'll take this newfound abhorrence to generalize as I see it. Your argument, however, smells a bit like The Real Scottsman. Incidentally, that argument was invented by an atheist deist. ;P |
Hmmm. So you fight bitterly against redefining one word (Marriage), yet you're perfectly happy redefining another (religion). I guess as long as it suits your purpose :D
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09/09/2010 07:50:55 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
For that matter, how many Christian churches? |
You could probably find one in Tehran, if you had to. Also, looks like there's more than half a million Christians in Iraq. They probably have a church or two. Doesn't devalue your point about religious tolerance in the US, though...if you happen to think that's a good thing. |
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09/09/2010 08:09:56 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Hmmm. So you fight bitterly against redefining one word (Marriage), yet you're perfectly happy redefining another (religion). I guess as long as it suits your purpose :D |
Hell ya! Anything to get Louis in a knot. He's fun when he's grumpy. :D
Message edited by author 2010-09-09 20:10:28. |
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09/09/2010 08:35:24 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
...
This is a common atheist dodge as soon as they are generalized, and yet they will often generalize themselves (already let us count the comments about "religious intolerance"). Face it, it's a religion. ..... |
I must disagree, and on this basis: Religion without fail requires faith. Science requires evidence. Both draw conclusions and make conjecture, yes, that much is true... The problem (for me) lies in the simple fact that a book or a tradition is the basis of religious knowledge upon which that conjecture is drawn...
Essentially, again, do you not find it a bit puzzling that bronze age tribesmen should have discovered the absolute truth about anything? Let alone a moral and social system that will work in a world far different from the world in which all "traditional" religions were conceived?
*shrug* I know you'll disagree... That's ok..
BTW: Evangelists scare the shit out of me, way more than fundamental Islamists... (go watch "Jesus Camp" if you haven't seen it... Best horror flick of the decade IMHO).. |
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09/09/2010 08:40:47 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Your argument, however, smells a bit like The Real Scottsman. |
"No true Scotsman"? I don't see how, I've provided exactly one definition of atheism, because there isonly one definition of atheism. If you want to define "atheism" as "that system of beliefs that includes dogma, holy men, creeds, holy books, and belief in no gods", that's your business, but you don't look very quick-witted doing so. As I said, just because a bunch of assholes are atheists (or waiters, or librarians, or vegans, or pet lovers) doesn't mean that every atheist (or waiter, etc.) is an asshole, or believes Dan Dennett to be infallible, or seeks to proselytize some or other position having nothing to do with belief in no gods, or waiting on tables, or whatever. |
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09/09/2010 08:41:51 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Face it, it's a religion. You got your high priests, your books, your zealots and your missionaries. You even have that cute little fish with the legs for your cars. And every winter solstice you commemorate your religion with a plaque in the capitol about there being no gods. |
Oh dear. I have no books, no missionaries (other than the ones in my Mom's church - they're nice kids), nor do I wish to convert anyone to any particular religion or non-religion. I don't have a fish on my car (it is missing the "J" in Jetta, however, and now is merely an "etta") nor do I commemorate anything in December other than a little time off. I don't even refer to myself as an atheist, but most Christians would probably consider me one. I think I'm pretty tolerant, even when cut off repeatedly on the 405. But hey, my voice is only a very minor one and I routinely get ignored in these threads anyway, so please carry on! :-) |
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09/09/2010 08:44:10 PM · #49 |
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09/09/2010 08:55:01 PM · #50 |
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