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09/01/2010 03:27:37 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
A lot can happen in 60 days. If I remeber correctly, John Kerry had a 10 point lead on GW Bush in that time frame and he ended up getting thrashed.
Not to say the Dems prospects aren't looking grim, but I'd wait until the election before handing over the gavel.
To  DrAchoo - Who besides a couple of Northeast Republicans that get called RINO and worse by their own party would you say is a moderate Republican? And if they truly are moderate, how are the faring with the Limbaughs and Becks of the world.
The closest I see is Grahamm from South Carolina who just got an official sanction from the state's Republican party for voting with the prersident on something. They didn't really care what it was, but if the President wanted they didn't. And it was something the GW Bush had promoted.
I think the GOP is in for a rude awakening even if they take a majority in one or both the chambers. All of of these people winning the GOP primaries are people the establishemnt GOP did not want and did not support. Miller in Alaska for example. You think this guy is going to toe the party line for a bunch of people that don't want him there?
The concept of political comprimise has been dead in the GOP since 1994. And it will get worse with the purging that's been going on within the GOP. Hard to get anything done since then. |
Good question and I can't name many. Spectre (Specter?) was. Olympia Snow? There aren't many well known. What the party needs is a red version of the Blue Dog Democrats. An affiliation within the party that says, "we don't have to agree with everything on the platform".
EDIT: Whoops. Just saw you excluded the Northeast Republicans. That would mark Snow off. :) Maybe Schwartzenegger needs to run for the Senate...
Message edited by author 2010-09-01 15:31:12. |
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09/01/2010 03:32:13 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
A lot can happen in 60 days. If I remeber correctly, John Kerry had a 10 point lead on GW Bush in that time frame and he ended up getting thrashed.
Not to say the Dems prospects aren't looking grim, but I'd wait until the election before handing over the gavel.
To DrAchoo - Who besides a couple of Northeast Republicans that get called RINO and worse by their own party would you say is a moderate Republican? And if they truly are moderate, how are the faring with the Limbaughs and Becks of the world.
The closest I see is Grahamm from South Carolina who just got an official sanction from the state's Republican party for voting with the prersident on something. They didn't really care what it was, but if the President wanted they didn't. And it was something the GW Bush had promoted.
I think the GOP is in for a rude awakening even if they take a majority in one or both the chambers. All of of these people winning the GOP primaries are people the establishemnt GOP did not want and did not support. Miller in Alaska for example. You think this guy is going to toe the party line for a bunch of people that don't want him there?
The concept of political comprimise has been dead in the GOP since 1994. And it will get worse with the purging that's been going on within the GOP. Hard to get anything done since then. |
Good question and I can't name many. Spectre (Specter?) was. Olympia Snow? There aren't many well known. What the party needs is a red version of the Blue Dog Democrats. An affiliation within the party that says, "we don't have to agree with everything on the platform".
EDIT: Whoops. Just saw you excluded the Northeast Republicans. That would mark Snow off. :) |
And Specter is now a Democrat. |
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09/01/2010 03:33:48 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
And Specter is now a Democrat. |
That's why I said "was" and didn't he lose the primary anyway? |
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09/01/2010 03:43:06 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
And Specter is now a Democrat. |
That's why I said "was" and didn't he lose the primary anyway? |
I think he did.
I was just wonder who you were hoping for in the moderate Republican category.
IMO you can't be a moderate Republican anymore. If you are, you get tarred and feathered by the right wing talk radio/TV for being a traitor to the cause or even the country. You can't vote against the party leadership on ANYTHING and not get punished for it. McCain was pretty close. He is conseravative for sure, but used to be pretty pragmatic. Look what happened to him.
I hope the Democrats can point out how far extreme the the GOP has gone recently. If they can do that and they still get voted out, I guess we'll get what we deserve. It won't be pretty.
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09/01/2010 04:03:17 PM · #30 |
Looks like the radical left is fighting back - Hostage taking at Discovery Channel
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09/01/2010 04:05:20 PM · #31 |
| Well, I didn't say there was a ton of hope, only that I see a link between the success of moderate Republicans and the fate of our country. I guess we're all F***ed. :( One reason for this is the Democrats response is to pull even harder to the left, becoming even more extreme themselves. The only reason they haven't become as radical as the right is their lack of organization and control (which, in this case, is a good thing). |
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09/01/2010 04:08:08 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The only reason they haven't become as radical as the right is their lack of organization and control (which, in this case, is a good thing). |
C'mon, Doc. How can you say that? That's ridiculous. You have some kind of deep knowledge that this is the ONLY reason? Does it occur to you that, these days, MOST democrats actually ARE "moderate"? The president certainly is, right-wing panic-mongering notwithstanding.
R.
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09/01/2010 04:12:32 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The only reason they haven't become as radical as the right is their lack of organization and control (which, in this case, is a good thing). |
C'mon, Doc. How can you say that? That's ridiculous. You have some kind of deep knowledge that this is the ONLY reason? Does it occur to you that, these days, MOST democrats actually ARE "moderate"? The president certainly is, right-wing panic-mongering notwithstanding.
R. |
From the current GOP positions I can understand how everything looks extreme to the left, but that's only because they are standing so far to the right.
I agree with Robert, President Obama is not near as liberal as the other side paints him to be. Neither was Clinton.
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09/01/2010 04:17:48 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The only reason they haven't become as radical as the right is their lack of organization and control (which, in this case, is a good thing). |
C'mon, Doc. How can you say that? That's ridiculous. You have some kind of deep knowledge that this is the ONLY reason? Does it occur to you that, these days, MOST democrats actually ARE "moderate"? The president certainly is, right-wing panic-mongering notwithstanding.
R. |
Ok, well called, I used the word "only" without really meaning it. It was a throwaway. ONE of the reasons is as above.
Consider myself scolded. |
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09/01/2010 04:23:13 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Louis:
First of all, my post said absolutely nothing about whether or not the interviewees represented any particular group, and secondly, I guess you simply ignored the previous stats where just one of the kooky ideas that came up in the video I linked to is believed by a majority of Republicans. Congrats on finding yourself to be so reasonable, though. |
You didn't have to say whether or not the interviewees represented any particular group, that was implied in the video. Just to clarify, my post was not directed at you Louis, I was mostly responding to/sharing my opinion about the video itself. Of course there are some "kooky" ideas that are commonly shared among the majority of people who support the Republican party, as there are some "kooky" ideas that are commonly shared among supporters of the the Democrats, or any other political party for that matter. I am not aware of any politicians in the United States that don't have at least one strange idea, and that goes for both parties. In fact, weird ideas might just be an unspoken job qualification for U.S. politicians. Either way, weird ideas (of which there have been many) haven't destroyed the United States yet, and I don't think they will anytime soon.
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09/01/2010 04:30:15 PM · #36 |
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09/01/2010 04:58:46 PM · #37 |
This guy no more represents liberals than Timothy McViegh represented conservatives. |
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09/01/2010 05:04:45 PM · #38 |
| His demands aren't very lefty. His immigration "position" -- as nutty as it is -- is more rightist than anything. |
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09/01/2010 05:08:52 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
When you get 500,000 activists together, you'll be able to find a quite a few of them to say some bizarre things, regardless of political affiliation. |
Beck on Fox was the only one to "estimate" the number at Beckopalooza at 500,000.
AirPhotoslive.com, who do this for a living by launching several cameras by hot air balloon, estimated it at 87,000 +/- 9,000.
By comparison, they estimated President Obama's inauguration at 800,000.
Good explination here
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09/01/2010 05:20:24 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
A lot can happen in 60 days. If I remeber correctly, John Kerry had a 10 point lead on GW Bush in that time frame and he ended up getting thrashed.
Not to say the Dems prospects aren't looking grim, but I'd wait until the election before handing over the gavel.
To DrAchoo - Who besides a couple of Northeast Republicans that get called RINO and worse by their own party would you say is a moderate Republican? And if they truly are moderate, how are the faring with the Limbaughs and Becks of the world.
The closest I see is Grahamm from South Carolina who just got an official sanction from the state's Republican party for voting with the prersident on something. They didn't really care what it was, but if the President wanted they didn't. And it was something the GW Bush had promoted.
I think the GOP is in for a rude awakening even if they take a majority in one or both the chambers. All of of these people winning the GOP primaries are people the establishemnt GOP did not want and did not support. Miller in Alaska for example. You think this guy is going to toe the party line for a bunch of people that don't want him there?
The concept of political comprimise has been dead in the GOP since 1994. And it will get worse with the purging that's been going on within the GOP. Hard to get anything done since then. |
I can tell you that Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity, the three right-wing radio talk-show hosts on the air in my area (and who I tune in to listen to almost every day) get callers on a regular basis asking when and how the voters will oust the two moderate Republican senators from Maine, and these three hosts are fully behind ousting them. So to answer your question, the moderates aren't faring very well with the conservative talking heads, who really are the de facto Republican leaders at this point. |
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09/01/2010 05:26:35 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
I can tell you that Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity, the three right-wing radio talk-show hosts on the air in my area (and who I tune in to listen to almost every day) get callers on a regular basis asking when and how the voters will oust the two moderate Republican senators from Maine, and these three hosts are fully behind ousting them. So to answer your question, the moderates aren't faring very well with the conservative talking heads, who really are the de facto Republican leaders at this point. |
This is all true and is real reason for fear. |
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09/01/2010 05:30:57 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
[...]there are some "kooky" ideas that are commonly shared among supporters of the the Democrats[...] |
"Ideas" on a par with the Obama-sharia conspiracy, the birther conspiracy, or the Manchurian candidate conspiracy (as someone called it), that a majority of Democrats believe? Such as...? |
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09/01/2010 05:35:39 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
[...]there are some "kooky" ideas that are commonly shared among supporters of the the Democrats[...] |
"Ideas" on a par with the Obama-sharia conspiracy, the birther conspiracy, or the Manchurian candidate conspiracy (as someone called it), that a majority of Democrats believe? Such as...? |
Hey, the poll indicates that over 1 in 6 of Obama's own party believe he wants to set up Sharia court in the US (or whatever the headline said). More than 1 in 6? In a group that has every reason to support him?
The question is specious. |
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09/01/2010 05:44:32 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
[...]there are some "kooky" ideas that are commonly shared among supporters of the the Democrats[...] |
"Ideas" on a par with the Obama-sharia conspiracy, the birther conspiracy, or the Manchurian candidate conspiracy (as someone called it), that a majority of Democrats believe? Such as...? |
Hey, the poll indicates that over 1 in 6 of Obama's own party believe he wants to set up Sharia court in the US (or whatever the headline said). More than 1 in 6? In a group that has every reason to support him?
The question is specious. |
I'd wager that over 1 in 6 Americans in general have no idea what sharia law is.
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09/01/2010 05:48:03 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
[...]there are some "kooky" ideas that are commonly shared among supporters of the the Democrats[...] |
"Ideas" on a par with the Obama-sharia conspiracy, the birther conspiracy, or the Manchurian candidate conspiracy (as someone called it), that a majority of Democrats believe? Such as...? |
Hey, the poll indicates that over 1 in 6 of Obama's own party believe he wants to set up Sharia court in the US (or whatever the headline said). More than 1 in 6? In a group that has every reason to support him?
The question is specious. |
I'd wager that over 1 in 6 Americans in general have no idea what sharia law is. |
Especially since the word was never used in the question. The headline is BS. That's my point. |
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09/01/2010 05:48:47 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
I can tell you that Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity, the three right-wing radio talk-show hosts on the air in my area (and who I tune in to listen to almost every day) get callers on a regular basis asking when and how the voters will oust the two moderate Republican senators from Maine, and these three hosts are fully behind ousting them. So to answer your question, the moderates aren't faring very well with the conservative talking heads, who really are the de facto Republican leaders at this point. |
This is all true and is real reason for fear. |
Is there anything to draw from the fact that these 3 leading conservative voices in America, Limbaugh, Beck, and Hannity have nothing greater a high school diploma in their education resumes? |
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09/01/2010 05:52:49 PM · #47 |
Concerning the 9/11 attacks, a poll from 2006:
"Thirty-five percent (35%) of Democrats believe he did know, 39% say he did not know, and 26% are not sure." and "Republicans reject that view and, by a 7-to-1 margin, say the President did not know in advance about the attacks. Among those not affiliated with either major party, 18% believe the President knew and 57% take the opposite view."
One thing about polls and "majorities" is always where you count the middle sections. Lots of spin can be done by including them or not including them.
If I take the poll above, I twist it by saying "a majority of Democrats (actually I say "large majority" because it's over 55%) felt Bush knew or could have known about the 9/11 attacks but didn't stop them." I would submit that this conclusion is no more twisted than the one about the Sharia courts...
How many democrats believe that GWB "stole" (ie. his party illegally manipulated the outcome) the 2004 election? I'm searching for poll numbers...
Message edited by author 2010-09-01 18:00:06. |
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09/01/2010 06:00:22 PM · #48 |
| Apparently, they've shot and killed James Lee, the Discovery Channel hostage taker. |
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09/01/2010 06:31:01 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Always best to go to the source: Newsweek Poll 8/27/10
Some people have alleged that Barack Obama sympathizes with the goals of Islamic fundamentalists who want to
impose Islamic law around the world. From what you know about Obama, what is your opinion of these
allegations? Do you think they areâ€Â¦
Current Rep. Dem. Ind.
7 Definitely true 14 3 5
24 Probably true 38 14 22
36 Probably not true, OR 33 37 37
25 Definitely not true? 7 42 28
8 (DO NOT READ) Don̢۪t know 8 4 8
100 100 100 100
Sorry the formatting sucks. It's question 24.
Sigh. This country will live or die by the survival of the "moderate Republican". Not that they have the answers, but that they are the only hope for a bridge between the divide. |
Bottom line: an astonishing 52% of self-identified republicans in this poll think the bolded statement above is "definitely" or "probably" true. |
I will float my own mea culpa for uncritically buying the overblown headline regarding the above poll, but I will also stand with Bear on viewing the actual outcome as astonishing.
Unfortunately, I have come to believe that the political options available in the United States right now amount to a choice between unhinged (the GOP) or ineffectual (the Dems). Given this, I guess I have to agree with Doc's earlier assessment - we are indeed, well and truly f*cked!!
Message edited by author 2010-09-01 18:31:40. |
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09/01/2010 06:34:21 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by shutterpuppy:
we are indeed, well and truly f*cked!! |
Let's go have a beer! |
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