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06/28/2004 03:51:57 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
And the worst part is that one of those stupid white men is in the White HOuse. |
I'm not sure the President will agree with you there... :-)
Originally posted by President Bush, May 27, 2004:
Karyn is with us. A West Texas girl, just like me |
Message edited by author 2004-06-28 04:06:05. |
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06/28/2004 04:03:01 AM · #27 |
| Im downloading Bowling for columbine as I type this. I really liked his movie "the big one." |
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06/28/2004 04:14:19 AM · #28 |
| I'm pretty sure you meant 'Buying from a reputable media outlet' there, didn't you Spawn? ;-) |
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06/28/2004 04:15:35 AM · #29 |
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06/28/2004 09:27:27 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Originally posted by EddyG:
Originally posted by pitsaman:
Name calling is sign of lack of inteligence.... |
The best part is that Michael Moore has his own book called "Stupid White Men". |
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And the worst part is that one of those stupid white men is in the White HOuse. |
And yet another stupid white man makes propaganda films like
Fahrenheit 9/11. |
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What did you find to be propaganda in F9/11?
Problem is that MM's propaganda won't have anyone losing their lives...where as the gov't's propaganda and how many dead enlisted men/women do we have now? What's the last count? Or have the media outlets stopped putting those numbers out? |
The only part I thought was propaganda was the part right after the previews through the end of the final credits.
Yeah, the world would be a much better place if Saddam and the Taliban were still in power. Let's free Saddam, pack our bags, bring our soldiers home and stick our heads in the sand. That would really be America leading the way!
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06/28/2004 10:54:56 AM · #31 |
| Hey! Let's get rid of Sadam by using depleted uranium. We'll take care of their dictator, and instead make their children born with the most disturbing defects imaginable. Since we are the greatest superpower on the planet, let's use weapons that mutilate the people we free! They work the best and we need them to win, even though we are the best there is. Oh and land mines! Let's use them too, even though it breaks international law, who cares! without them we can't mutilate the people we free. And as liberaters, we need to give them REMINDER's of who saved them! |
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06/28/2004 11:20:05 AM · #32 |
Unfairenheit 9/11: The lies of Michael Moore
To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery.
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If Michael Moore had had his way, Slobodan Milosevic would still be the big man in a starved and tyrannical Serbia. Bosnia and Kosovo would have been cleansed and annexed. If Michael Moore had been listened to, Afghanistan would still be under Taliban rule, and Kuwait would have remained part of Iraq. And Iraq itself would still be the personal property of a psychopathic crime family, bargaining covertly with the slave state of North Korea for WMD. You might hope that a retrospective awareness of this kind would induce a little modesty. To the contrary, it is employed to pump air into one of the great sagging blimps of our sorry, mediocre, celeb-rotten culture. Rock the vote, indeed.
Mmmm. Good stuff.
Message edited by author 2004-06-28 11:22:10. |
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06/28/2004 11:24:17 AM · #33 |
at this point, i dont think anyone who hasnt seen the movie should be posting any bs from other sites bad mouthing it. if you watch the movie you will see that michael moore does a fine job of letting the people do themselves in.
"there is an old saying in texas, well.. its from tennessee but we use it in texas.. it goes, fool me once.. ahh.. shame.. ahh.. ya cant fool us!" -George 'Dubya' Bush
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06/28/2004 12:14:32 PM · #34 |
I assume that you are being sarcastic... :)
[QUOTE]
If Michael Moore had had his way, Slobodan Milosevic would still be the big man in a starved and tyrannical Serbia. Bosnia and Kosovo would have been cleansed and annexed. If Michael Moore had been listened to, Afghanistan would still be under Taliban rule, and Kuwait would have remained part of Iraq. And Iraq itself would still be the personal property of a psychopathic crime family, bargaining covertly with the slave state of North Korea for WMD. You might hope that a retrospective awareness of this kind would induce a little modesty. To the contrary, it is employed to pump air into one of the great sagging blimps of our sorry, mediocre, celeb-rotten culture. Rock the vote, indeed.[/i]
Mmmm. Good stuff. [/QUOTE]
Message edited by author 2004-06-28 12:16:14.
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06/28/2004 12:47:31 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by jonr:
I assume that you are being sarcastic... :) |
Nah, I was just quoting from Christopher Hitchens' review of the movie. |
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06/28/2004 12:56:33 PM · #36 |
Guys: Michael Moore is a bit of a blowhard. So is anyone who writes a book called "Michael Moore is a Stupid White Man." Debating either as "propaganda" or ridiculous is focusing on arguments that are too polarized to do anything but explode. Honestly, the left and the right both have their extremists, and taking issue with those extremists doesn't address anything but the fringes of either viewpoint.
I've seen the movie, he does manipulate a little shamelessly, but he also makes some good points and has some really funny clips. It's worth watching with a free weekday afternoon and an open mind. |
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06/28/2004 02:49:16 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Malokata:
a free weekday afternoon |
What's that then ? I think I might have heard about the concept once upon a time.
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06/28/2004 08:13:58 PM · #38 |
Funny. Most of you who are against Moore are all American. Hmmm... I wonder why American's would be against him? Lets think...
I would support any of Michael Moore's work, any day.
He does a good job of sticking the oversized American head up it's own ass.
Lee
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06/29/2004 02:15:27 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by Spanish_Grease:
Funny. Most of you who are against Moore are all American. Hmmm... I wonder why American's would be against him? Lets think...
I would support any of Michael Moore's work, any day.
He does a good job of sticking the oversized American head up it's own ass.
Lee |
I'd agree with you... if it weren't already up there. :)
Too funny!
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06/29/2004 02:17:27 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by Spanish_Grease:
Funny. Most of you who are against Moore are all American. Hmmm... I wonder why American's would be against him? Lets think...
I would support any of Michael Moore's work, any day.
He does a good job of sticking the oversized American head up it's own ass.
Lee |
Im american and i agree with you |
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06/29/2004 02:27:25 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Malokata:
a free weekday afternoon |
What's that then ? I think I might have heard about the concept once upon a time. |
Check any day at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue :) |
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07/01/2004 10:31:01 PM · #42 |
From today's New York Times:
July 1, 2004
GUEST COLUMNIST
Dude, Where's That Elite?
By BARBARA EHRENREICH
You can call Michael Moore all kinds of things — loudmouthed, obnoxious and self-promoting, for example. The anorexic Ralph Nader, in what must be an all-time low for left-wing invective, has even called him fat. The one thing you cannot call him, though, is a member of the "liberal elite."
Sure, he's made a ton of money from his best sellers and award-winning documentaries. But no one can miss the fact that he's a genuine son of the U.S. working class — of a Flint autoworker, in fact — because it's built right into his "branding," along with flannel shirts and baseball caps.
My point is not to defend Moore, who — with a platoon of bodyguards and a legal team starring Mario Cuomo — hardly needs any muscle from me. I just think it's time to retire the "liberal elite" label, which, for the past 25 years, has been deployed to denounce anyone to the left of Colin Powell. Thus, last winter, the ultra-elite right-wing Club for Growth dismissed followers of Howard Dean as a "tax-hiking, government-expanding, latte-drinking, sushi-eating, Volvo-driving, New York Times-reading, body-piercing, Hollywood-loving, left-wing freak show." I've experienced it myself: speak up for the downtrodden, and someone is sure to accuse you of being a member of the class that's doing the trodding.
The notion of a sinister, pseudocompassionate liberal elite has been rebutted, most recently in Thomas Frank's brilliant new book, "What's the Matter With Kansas?," which says the aim is "to cast the Democrats as the party of a wealthy, pampered, arrogant elite that lives as far as it can from real Americans, and to represent Republicanism as the faith of the hard-working common people of the heartland, an expression of their unpretentious, all-American ways, just like country music and Nascar."
Like the notion of social class itself, the idea of a liberal elite originated on the left, among early 20th-century anarchists and Trotskyites who noted, correctly, that the Soviet Union was spawning a "new class" of power-mad bureaucrats. The Trotskyites brought this theory along with them when they mutated into neocons in the 60's, and it was perhaps their most precious contribution to the emerging American right. Backed up by the concept of a "liberal elite," right-wingers could crony around with their corporate patrons in luxuriously appointed think tanks and boardrooms — all the while purporting to represent the average overworked Joe.
Beyond that, the idea of a liberal elite nourishes the right's perpetual delusion that it is a tiny band of patriots bravely battling an evil power structure. Note how richly the E-word embellishes the screeds of Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly and their co-ideologues, as in books subtitled "Rescuing American from the Media Elite," "How Elites from Hollywood, Politics and the U.N. Are Subverting America," and so on. Republican right-wingers may control the White House, both houses of Congress and a good chunk of the Supreme Court, but they still enjoy portraying themselves as Davids up against a cosmopolitan-swilling, corgi-owning Goliath.
Yes, there are some genuinely rich folks on the left — Barbra Streisand, Arianna Huffington, George Soros — and for all I know, some of them are secret consumers of French chardonnays and loathers of televised wrestling. But the left I encounter on my treks across the nation is heavy on hotel housekeepers, community college students, laid-off steelworkers and underpaid schoolteachers. Even many liberal celebrities — like Jesse Jackson and Gloria Steinem — hail from decidedly modest circumstances. David Cobb, the Green Party's presidential candidate, is another proud product of poverty.
It's true that there are plenty of working-class people — though far from a majority — who will vote for Bush and the white-tie crowd that he has affectionately referred to as his "base." But it would be redundant to speak of a "conservative elite" when the ranks of our corporate rulers are packed tight with the kind of Republicans who routinely avoid the humiliating discomforts of first class for travel by private jet.
So liberals can take comfort from the fact that our most visible spokesman is, despite his considerable girth, an invulnerable target for the customary assault weapon of the right. I meant to comment on his movie, too, but the lines at my local theater are still prohibitively long.
Barbara Ehrenreich will be a guest columnist for the Op-Ed page through July.
Check out her book Nickel and Dimed for a more realistic look at life in the working classes in America than you get from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, from someone's who's actually lived it. |
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