Out of camera BW - DPChallenge Forums

08/07/2010 07:36:44 PM · #1

I know this is done before but not with the new rules.

No editing what so ever including crop and rotation (but resize only). Set your 'camera' settings to BW, adjust your sharpness, contrast in 'camera' settings.

I think this would be the "real" talent war, not only composition wise, but also who has the technical information 'of' their cameras. Maybe some 'of' us learn that cameras have those options :O)

08/07/2010 07:41:33 PM · #2

Heh - I actually shoot that way a lot. RAW + jpeg, with the jpeg in B&W.

08/07/2010 07:44:07 PM · #3

Originally posted by Melethia:

Heh - I actually shoot that way a lot. RAW + jpeg, with the jpeg in B&W.

OOOH how I envy you with that 7D :(

I just dreamed about 40D... it was so real when I wake up, I had my hands the shape like holding the 'camera'... I almost puked knowing that was not real but dream.

Pentax D-FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW

08/07/2010 07:47:25 PM · #4

The Rebel won't do that? I thought mine did. But maybe it was the 400D.

You should be able to scarf up a 30D for almost nothing these days, and I think it did that.

I dreamed I had a cigarette and was so pissed off because I'd have to start counting all over again. Kinda glad when I woke up that it was just a dream!

K3Master

Pentax K-3

08/07/2010 08:13:33 PM · #5

I don't have an in-'camera' B&W setting. I can filter it, but it's a lot 'of' work, and is no different than converting to B&W in photoshop.

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning for a challenge like this, TBH.

08/07/2010 08:39:15 PM · #6

Originally posted by Melethia:

The Rebel won't do that?...

It would, but it wouldn't save RAW and JPG :P

I just want a 40D... I am dying for it :-\

08/07/2010 08:40:43 PM · #7

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

For the fun 'of' it? I like seeing B&W when I chimp; that's why I set my 'camera' that way sometimes.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

08/07/2010 08:42:41 PM · #8

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

...I'm not sure I understand the reasoning for a challenge like this, TBH...

Think it as a painting (with black paint only). After you are done with a painting, you most likely will frame it the way it is, no cropping, no rotating no... well, you get the point. Pure as one shot. I don't think it's a lot o ask. If you don't have a in-'camera' BW settings... well, maybe next time then :-\

Message edited by author 2010-08-07 20:44:44.

chromeydome

Nikon D7000

08/07/2010 08:45:05 PM · #9

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning for a challenge like this, TBH.

Not sure 'of' the intent here, but in general these sorts 'of' "straight from 'camera' only" ideas seem to somehow be based on the misguided belief that anything done outside the 'camera' is not "real" photography, and often seem to think that that was true with film cameras, without any understanding that film development choices, printing choices, chemical choices, paper choices, dodging, burning, toning, cropping are all post-processing steps in the exposed-film-to-negative-wet-darkroom-to-final-print methodology. Often, the initial exposure was made with all 'of' that post-processing in mind, and the exposure method, film choices adapted to support the entire process to a pre-visualized finished print.

Same as a lot 'of' us do with digital--different tools, methods, same thought process.

I guess I would say that the only chance 'of' a real "straight from 'camera'" photograph is a polaroid in your hand. Anything else is just kidding yourself.

Message edited by author 2010-08-07 20:46:33.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS II USM Lens

08/07/2010 08:46:12 PM · #10

Originally posted by chromeydome:

...I guess I would say that the only chance 'of' a real "straight from 'camera'" photograph is a polaroid in your hand. Anything else is just kidding yourself.

You have no idea HOW WRONG you are right now...

but, I'll let others find that 'out'.

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

08/07/2010 09:10:27 PM · #11

Well, I'm a little confused. Maybe someone can straighten this 'out' for me. As far as I know, there are no challenges currently open for submissions which REQUIRE a b&w no editing JPG image. For the current OPEN challenges, you must use minimal editing rules, but that does not force one to use B&W conversion, although one could do that. "You MAY fully desaturate your image using your editing softwareâ��s â��desaturate,â�� â��convert to grayscaleâ�� or equivalent function. Customizable tools are not allowed."

However, color images are allowed in minimal editing.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS II USM Lens

08/07/2010 09:17:05 PM · #12

No, there are no current challenges requiring a B&W no editing jpeg. This is a challenge suggestion at the moment.

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

08/07/2010 09:19:10 PM · #13

Originally posted by Melethia:

No, there are no current challenges requiring a B&W no editing jpeg. This is a challenge suggestion at the moment.

Thanks very much. Now I understand. This is a discussion 'of' a hypothetical. Sorry for my confusion.

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

08/07/2010 09:47:05 PM · #14

With a very poor light and pretty much as fast as I can (that means you can do A LOT better)... Holding the flower with one hand and shooting with other.

Your talent is not only 'out' 'of' 'camera' but most in the 'camera'.

Just like we stop paying attention how to spell things, because word is fixing our spellings now, and forget how to spell properly.

These kind 'of' practices (as in this challenge suggestion) helps you to be better 'out' 'of' 'camera'. Honestly I don't know if everyone knows about the settings in the 'camera' that are available, but the point here also to make you shoot a better composition at once (no rotation, no cropping) and get a better results at once (with correct f stop and shutter speed settings etc.) with plus options (sharpening and contrast settings in 'camera')

If not a DPC challenge, I might start a side challenge for this instead. I can't wait to see how good you guys are :)

Edited version

I like them both honestly

Message edited by author 2010-08-07 21:58:26.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

08/07/2010 09:52:19 PM · #15

I'm assuming that the 'camera' auto-rotate function is allowed as it doesn't make sense to insist that everyone shoot landscape oriented images.

On the idea 'of' B&W straight from the 'camera' I think it would be a good challenge to learn what sorts 'of' scenes work well and which ones don't.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G ED VR

08/07/2010 09:54:12 PM · #16

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

I think anything that is set in the 'camera' before shooting should be allowed. That means some will have advantages, but still can't crop the image, which one 'of' the goals here... to get a perfect composition without cropping.

George

Nikon D750

08/07/2010 10:32:42 PM · #17

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

I think the suggestion should simply be Topic: Black & White, Ruleset: Minimal. That means you can rotate 90, 180, or 270 degrees, and shoot in color but do a B&W conversion later if you want (direct to Grayscale, no color adjustment or duotones). Add to those rules that the actual entry should be in B&W, whether the original was B&W or converted to B&W as Minimal allows. What's so bad about that ruleset?

Regarding rotation... My 'camera' embeds orientation information in the EXIF, but doesn't actually make a physically portrait-oriented JPEG. When viewed with the right program, it will be turned; when viewed in a web browser, it won't be... so the "90, 180, or 270 degrees" clause is necessary for me. There are also many cameras that don't rotate the image OR include orientation information, so again... necessary.

08/07/2010 10:46:18 PM · #18

Originally posted by George:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:
I'm assuming that the 'camera' auto-rotate function is allowed as it doesn't make sense to insist that everyone shoot landscape oriented images.

On the idea 'of' B&W straight from the 'camera' I think it would be a good challenge to learn what sorts 'of' scenes work well and which ones don't.

I think the suggestion should simply be Topic: Black & White, Ruleset: Minimal. That means you can rotate 90, 180, or 270 degrees, and shoot in color but do a B&W conversion later if you want (direct to Grayscale, no color adjustment or duotones). Add to those rules that the actual entry should be in B&W, whether the original was B&W or converted to B&W as Minimal allows. What's so bad about that ruleset?

Regarding rotation... My 'camera' embeds orientation information in the EXIF, but doesn't actually make a physically portrait-oriented JPEG. When viewed with the right program, it will be turned; when viewed in a web browser, it won't be... so the "90, 180, or 270 degrees" clause is necessary for me. There are also many cameras that don't rotate the image OR include orientation information, so again... necessary.

I think rotation is not a big deal. As long as no crop, the image should be in correct rotation anyways depending on your subject. As long as there is no cropping, which can make a horizontal take vertical or other way.

BW 'camera' setting is one 'of' the rules. Most cameras have this option, and it's just like some 'of' the limited challenge entries, this is one 'of' the limitations I believe. If your 'camera' doesn't support this option, should not enter.

Any settings that are available from 'camera' should be allow to set before shooting. I am not sure what 'camera' has what kind 'of' settings, but mine lets me set sharpening and contrast. That should be enough. Those settings should consider equivalent to film process.

This challenge idea should not be difficult, and should not scare people. IMHO, these kinds 'of' challenges what should be looked for the most.

if you can do this,

in 'camera' settings should be a child play.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

08/07/2010 10:59:17 PM · #19

I'm pretty sure this one (an early experiment) was straight from 'camera' in B&W mode-