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06/17/2004 01:45:59 AM · #1 |
OK...If I shoot in RAW mode with my rebel and use the Canon software, what changes can I make to the image after it's taken?
Also, how large are the RAW files compared to a large JPG?
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06/17/2004 01:57:34 AM · #2 |
| Depends on the ISO for file sizes but the RAW files are dramatically larger. Also does the Rebel record RAW+JPEG? If not that's a bummer. Unless you have the newest version of PS I think you can only edit the RAW picture in the Fileviewer software. I think it is great because you can adjust white balance, exposure, color correction, sharpness, contrast etc. It is really slow though. At least for me. Also, there's nothing wrong with asking what you can do with RAW but remember its digital so just experiment and play with it. That's how I keep learning. |
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06/17/2004 02:05:58 AM · #3 |
| I beleive Canon has released a new editor for the 10D but it's not been released for the rebel yet. Looks like they changed their site format this week also :( |
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06/17/2004 02:09:03 AM · #4 |
Can you work on the RAW files with layers and mask? I'm tryin' to shoot some bands in a local club and the lighting is a bit....
tricky if ya know what I mean! :-P
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06/17/2004 02:27:12 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
Can you work on the RAW files with layers and mask? I'm tryin' to shoot some bands in a local club and the lighting is a bit....
tricky if ya know what I mean! :-P |
Well maybe with the new Photoshop CS but I don't know. What I'd do is edit each RAW shot individually in the Fileviewer and then save them as a JPEG. The RAW will stay intact. Then open the JPEGs in PS and play with the masks and layers then. I know there must be a way with RAW files I've just never tried it. I've just converted to JPEG. I guess I kind of look at the RAW file as a blueprint that I refine a little in Fileviewer and then convert to JPEG to complete the post-process. Again that's my workflow and I'm sure there's a better way. |
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06/17/2004 02:28:10 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
Can you work on the RAW files with layers and mask? I'm tryin' to shoot some bands in a local club and the lighting is a bit....
tricky if ya know what I mean! :-P |
Nope, unless there is a trick I am unaware of.
You basically get to do some basic adjustments in the RAW mode, such as exposure, colour temp etc, and then PS imports it and only then can you play with layers, masks etc.
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06/17/2004 03:00:38 AM · #7 |
RAW files tend to be 16 bit images. I tend to open mine in PS7 and adjust exposure and white balance etc where needed. You can work on the 16 bit image but it is a little limiting. You can change it to 8 bit and work on it like any other normal jpg file. I have no idea about the size of the 300d RAW files, but mine tend to be around 9meg each.
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06/17/2004 09:04:37 AM · #8 |
| You could try using dcraw. I haven't used it so I am not sure about its features. I doubt it will do layers and masks (will any raw converter program?). It is a freeware program that supposedly compares favorably to the Canon supplied software. The site has write-ups by Fred Miranda and Rob Galbraith. Check it out. |
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06/17/2004 09:41:40 AM · #9 |
Canon provided a new EOS Viewer recently. This lets you quickly view the RAW images as though they were JPEG thumbnails. It will then allow you to convert the RAW file for editing in PS or other utility.
However, I prefer to use this just as a viewer, then use the PS-CS Camera Raw converter which has better adjustment utilities.
I then save as PDS leaving the RAW file intact.
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06/17/2004 10:18:03 AM · #10 |
Just re-read the original question - RAW images have all the data retained, which means you can make many more adjustments to the image once in PS. If you shoot in JPG then you will automatically lose a percentage of the collected data before it even comes out of the camera. This will restrict the range of adjustments possible later.
As for size, I get 150-160 RAW with embeded superfine JPG on a 1Gig CF, enough for a mornings photo outing. If I'm going for longer then I drop in a 4Gig microdrive to get 600+ best quality images. |
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06/17/2004 10:27:52 AM · #11 |
How does this relate to challenge entries?
I usually go through my CF cards, convert what I want to keep to TIFFs for editing in Photoshop and delete the rest. Can these TIFF files be used as proof originals in challenges? I don't like keeping the RAWs cause you can't do anything with them outside of the Canon software. EXIF remains intact during conversion as far as I can tell.
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06/17/2004 10:59:15 AM · #12 |
Photoshop CS opens RAW files natively ,allowing you to do all the various white balance, exposure, sharpness, contrast adjustments etc when you open the file. It is then available as a 16 bit image which you can do all of the usual filtering, layering, masking etc (Photoshop CS supports pretty close to full 16 bit editing, unlike previous versions)
Third party software like breezebrowser and Capture One Rebel edition also let you manipulate Canon RAW files, much faster and more flexibly than the Canon own software (unless it has/ is changing significantly to be better and less buggy)
RAW files let you do the following, later at home and correct mistakes:
Exposure adjustment up to +-1EV and occasionaly +- 2 EV stops
Apply fully controlable custom white balance (either by selecting a grey point on the image, or adjusting sliders/ selecting pre-sets)
Full control over contrast, saturation and sharpness, much more so than the few presets provided in camera
16 bit (12 bit really) post processing/ editing on all of the image data (rather than 8 bit editing on pre sharpened, pre compressed JPEGs)
It also gives you the opportunity to screw all of these factors up and get worse results than you would with a JPEG processed in camera.
More flexibilty, more power - with all the usual positives and negatives those bring. Depending on your personality it can also encourage you to become a worse photographer (or not encourage you to improve), assuming you can 'fix' things later rather than getting a good exposure in the first place. However, while you can save shots and fix exposure problems, the results are often worse than a correctly exposed original shot, following the usual garbage in garbage out mantra. This can be roughly equated to the diference between shooting slide film and negative film, where the increased latitude of negative film and the typical mini-lab applied adjustments mean you might never realise just how poorly you control a camera until you throw some slide film in.
Message edited by author 2004-06-17 11:02:56.
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06/17/2004 08:10:30 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by wwwavenger:
How does this relate to challenge entries?
I usually go through my CF cards, convert what I want to keep to TIFFs for editing in Photoshop and delete the rest. Can these TIFF files be used as proof originals in challenges? I don't like keeping the RAWs cause you can't do anything with them outside of the Canon software. EXIF remains intact during conversion as far as I can tell. |
I wouldn't count on it. The rules specifically state you will need "your original, unedited, direct-from-camera file." Canon RAW files do contain an embedded JPEG file that can be extracted with the Canon (or other) software. I infer from discussions in other threads that this is acceptable as proof since it is direct-from-camera. Besides, the EXIF data for CRW files is actually stored in the accompanying THM file. On the other hand, it would be impossible to precisely reconstruct the submitted photo from the JPEG if too many adjustments were made during the RAW conversion. So I'd keep the RAW around for challenge entries, just in case.
I personally keep my original untouched RAW files (burned to a DVD) just in case I decide I want to do the conversion differently after I've worked with the file awhile (for example, to make the lighting a bit warmer). I like to keep my options open. Or maybe I just don't trust myself when it comes to RAW conversion, especially when I'm doing a lot of them at a time.
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06/18/2004 04:25:01 AM · #14 |
usually go through my CF cards, convert what I want to keep to TIFFs for editing in Photoshop and delete the rest. Can these TIFF files be used as proof originals in challenges? I don't like keeping the RAWs cause you can't do anything with them outside of the Canon software. EXIF remains intact during conversion as far as I can tell.
I always assumed that the RAW file was the one which needed to be submitted for verification. The TIFF has been converted and is not therefore direct from the camera.
I save all my RAW files regardless, but only the PSD's for the ones I submit to challenges |
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06/18/2004 08:43:44 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Photoshop CS opens RAW files natively ,allowing you to do all the various white balance, exposure, sharpness, contrast adjustments etc when you open the file. It is then available as a 16 bit image which you can do all of the usual filtering, layering, masking etc (Photoshop CS supports pretty close to full 16 bit editing, unlike previous versions) |
For those like me, who can't upgrade from PS7 to CS, you can always copy the file as an 8-bit image, make selections in 8-bit, and while keeping the 8-bit image open, you can load the selections into the 16-bit file. This method is time-consuming, but it does offer a more or less full 16-bit control in the older PS versions. |
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