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 11/08/2004 06:25:19 PM · #26
Originally posted by e301:
Doesn't make sense, John? Absolutely - most contradictions don't. I've submitted a number of shots to challenges that I don't particularly like, but that I think will score well. One's submissions don't reflect one's primary photographic interests, necessarily. We don't all see the same thing in all photographs ... isn't that the point of it all? Isn't that inherent contradiction what makes it so much fun?

E


Hey E,

I get what you mean. I think it might have come off better if you had at least given the fotog the benefit of the doubt that perhaps they too choose the shot bc it is most likely to appeal in the masses at dpc.

On this post you wrote that we do not submit the things we like or that interests us. Dunno about the 'we' but I certainly do. Perhaps that's why I dont win ribbons as often but who cares. I submit what I like to shoot & that which strikes my fancy at the time. I submit my shots & I love every one of 'em. There are quite a few of us at dpc that do this.
 11/08/2004 06:25:24 PM · #27
Originally posted by ericlimon:

7) the title told me to vote it a 1


This literally made me laugh out loud. Thank you! :D

This has never actually happened has it?
 11/08/2004 06:26:51 PM · #28
Originally posted by PerezDesignGroup:
Originally posted by ericlimon:

7) the title told me to vote it a 1


This literally made me laugh out loud. Thank you! :D

This has never actually happened has it?

I believe it has at least one time.
 11/08/2004 06:28:53 PM · #29
Originally posted by PerezDesignGroup:
This has never actually happened has it?


Yep- Jacko's "Angry kitty ready for a scratch your eye (if you give this a 1, your stoopid)." I believe that was the phrase and spelling.
 11/08/2004 06:48:20 PM · #30
Originally posted by Rooster:
Originally posted by e301:
Doesn't make sense, John? Absolutely - most contradictions don't. I've submitted a number of shots to challenges that I don't particularly like, but that I think will score well. One's submissions don't reflect one's primary photographic interests, necessarily. We don't all see the same thing in all photographs ... isn't that the point of it all? Isn't that inherent contradiction what makes it so much fun?

E


Did I not do that? I apologise; it is of course what I meant, also.

Hey E,

I get what you mean. I think it might have come off better if you had at least given the fotog the benefit of the doubt that perhaps they too choose the shot bc it is most likely to appeal in the masses at dpc.

On this post you wrote that we do not submit the things we like or that interests us. Dunno about the 'we' but I certainly do. Perhaps that's why I dont win ribbons as often but who cares. I submit what I like to shoot & that which strikes my fancy at the time. I submit my shots & I love every one of 'em. There are quite a few of us at dpc that do this.
11/08/2004 07:23:30 PM · #31
Honestly I think the whole scoring thing is a bit too sensitive of a subject. It is understood that the voters are your fellow peers on the site. Peers = masses. There are talented photographers, there are not so talented photographers. There are people who vote your picture as a 1 that are spiteful, uninformed, ignorant, hateful, all of the above. However there will also be people who vote your picture a 10 when it really isn't all that good. I've been given 10's for pictures before and I think to myelf, "For that piece of crap?" It works both ways. It evens out. There is no preset criteria for the voters to go by so why should it be such a surprise to see 1's and 10's?
 11/08/2004 07:29:10 PM · #32
Originally posted by hanlomba:
Honestly I think the whole scoring thing is a bit too sensitive of a subject. It is understood that the voters are your fellow peers on the site. Peers = masses. There are talented photographers, there are not so talented photographers. There are people who vote your picture as a 1 that are spiteful, uninformed, ignorant, hateful, all of the above. However there will also be people who vote your picture a 10 when it really isn't all that good. I've been given 10's for pictures before and I think to myelf, "For that piece of crap?" It works both ways. It evens out. There is no preset criteria for the voters to go by so why should it be such a surprise to see 1's and 10's?


some people vote 1's for valid reasons not out of spite, hate, etc.... as you stated. I think that is the point of htis thread.
 11/08/2004 07:39:07 PM · #33
Ok Iâm going to put my 2 cents worth in on the topic since I have paid my $25.00 and I have the right to speak my mind as well everyone else.
It was my understanding that we were to vote on a photograph based on its technical accuracy and if it meets the challenge. I think that for the most part that is done. I do agree that if a person wishes to deduct points from there score because they donât agree with the subject or in this case have seen it over and over and over again, it is your right to do so. But voting it a one on a technical accurate photo that meets the challenge is inappropriate.
I think a photograph should be voted on:
1. Its technical accuracy
2. If it meets the challenge
3. Then if you donât like the subject for any reason or find it has been over done deduct a point or two if you wish, itâs your right. But donât drop it to a 1 based on âI have seen it over and over againâ

If that was the case DPC should not count on being around to long, with this spiral we are in, because with the amount of registered users and members posting more and more photographs [This past week alone were 946 entries] you are going to see duplicate photographs by different users.

To sum up what I saying, if you wish to deduct point because the photo was not âoriginalâ please place the majority of your score on if the photographs technique and if it meets the challenge.
And I see a trend on this site that is being hammer in the heads of the photographers, âlearn what the voter wants to see and you will score highâ. Thatâs bad since photography is an art. A photographer should take the picture he/she wants not what appeals to the masses.
11/08/2004 07:52:01 PM · #34
Originally posted by SDW65:
Ok Iâm going to put my 2 cents worth in on the topic since I have paid my $25.00 and I have the right to speak my mind as well everyone else.
It was my understanding that we were to vote on a photograph based on its technical accuracy and if it meets the challenge. I think that for the most part that is done. I do agree that if a person wishes to deduct points from there score because they donât agree with the subject or in this case have seen it over and over and over again, it is your right to do so. But voting it a one on a technical accurate photo that meets the challenge is inappropriate.
I think a photograph should be voted on:
1. Its technical accuracy
2. If it meets the challenge
3. Then if you donât like the subject for any reason or find it has been over done deduct a point or two if you wish, itâs your right. But donât drop it to a 1 based on âI have seen it over and over againâ

If that was the case DPC should not count on being around to long, with this spiral we are in, because with the amount of registered users and members posting more and more photographs [This past week alone were 946 entries] you are going to see duplicate photographs by different users.

To sum up what I saying, if you wish to deduct point because the photo was not âoriginalâ please place the majority of your score on if the photographs technique and if it meets the challenge.
And I see a trend on this site that is being hammer in the heads of the photographers, âlearn what the voter wants to see and you will score highâ. Thatâs bad since photography is an art. A photographer should take the picture he/she wants not what appeals to the masses.


While I can easily embrace your concusion, I differ with your post with regards to the two lone criteria you offer for an evaluation of photos. Technical accuracy and topicality alone would, IMO, make a poor excuse for a critical evaluation. If photography, as you suggest, can be an 'art', then let's include some criteria capable of discerning artistic merit.

Message edited by author 2004-11-08 19:52:37.
 11/08/2004 08:01:19 PM · #35
Originally posted by Rooster:
Originally posted by hanlomba:
Honestly I think the whole scoring thing is a bit too sensitive of a subject. It is understood that the voters are your fellow peers on the site. Peers = masses. There are talented photographers, there are not so talented photographers. There are people who vote your picture as a 1 that are spiteful, uninformed, ignorant, hateful, all of the above. However there will also be people who vote your picture a 10 when it really isn't all that good. I've been given 10's for pictures before and I think to myelf, "For that piece of crap?" It works both ways. It evens out. There is no preset criteria for the voters to go by so why should it be such a surprise to see 1's and 10's?


some people vote 1's for valid reasons not out of spite, hate, etc.... as you stated. I think that is the point of htis thread.


Absolutely. I'm sure there are many people who vote a 1 for what they believe are valid reasons whether or not I agree with them. Same with 10's. There are all kinds. This isn't a juried contest, it's a free for all.
 11/08/2004 08:28:07 PM · #36
Originally posted by ericlimon:
the point of people complaining is this:

a one score (in my mind) would have to be:

...
5) clearly cheating (IE: use of illegal photoshop tools)


No! You should not vote lower because you think an image should be DQ'd. The Challenge Voting section of the rules says:

If you feel a photograph has violated the site rules, you may click the "Recommend Disqualification for this Picture" link and enter your reason why. You should then vote on the photo as if the rule was not broken, and leave the determination up to the administrators.

EMPHASIS NOT ADDED.
 11/08/2004 08:30:59 PM · #37
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by PerezDesignGroup:
This has never actually happened has it?


Yep- Jacko's "Angry kitty ready for a scratch your eye (if you give this a 1, your stoopid)." I believe that was the phrase and spelling.


You are right! Yet another good laugh :D

11/08/2004 08:39:08 PM · #38
jack you got hammered , great job
 11/08/2004 08:41:24 PM · #39
Originally posted by e301:
Doesn't make sense, John? Absolutely - most contradictions don't. I've submitted a number of shots to challenges that I don't particularly like, but that I think will score well. One's submissions don't reflect one's primary photographic interests, necessarily. We don't all see the same thing in all photographs ... isn't that the point of it all? Isn't that inherent contradiction what makes it so much fun?

E


I suppose it does make sense in those terms. I haven't submitted any photos that I didn't particularly like myeself. This may be why I didn't understand that perspective.
11/08/2004 08:50:03 PM · #40
Many good thoughts and reasons here for voting one way or another. What I think everything boils down to is that many people want to know why they got a 1. If there is no explanation, we are not going to learn how to improve the photos. Therefore, knowing that the photo is technically sound, meets the challenge, etc., but received some 1s, we assume it was a troll voter if there is no other way to explain the 1s.
 11/08/2004 09:07:57 PM · #41
I always assume it was from someone who didn't like my photo. Likewise, that the occasional ten is from someone who thought it was a "good" picture.
 11/09/2004 11:27:52 PM · #42
Look: this is a topic which has no resolution because the voter has the power to reward or penalize. But consider the following:
You have, say a good shot. Yes, I realize that good is relative and that there are no absolute points of reference and therefore we can not ever communicate except in degrees of vagueness, but make believe for illustration that it is a technically good shot. Fisrt voters is not crazy about concept and subject, but gives it a 5 because it met the challenge and it appears that the skill level is high.

Second voter enters. Hates the subject (this is a trait in his character. Unable to judge with a cool head, resorts to the infantile hate-love syndrone, this is apparant in their daily lives with I hate and love this.) Besides, it is a studio shot, hate them things, and so comes the 1. Now the score on this picture is 3.

The crime is that this is a learning site and the one serves no purpose to advance or help the photographer whose picture is being voted on. Hence. these voters are called trollers because they are voting to vent and express their insecurities rather than wanting to help their fellow camera pals.

Message edited by author 2004-11-09 23:28:18.
 11/10/2004 12:34:54 AM · #43
But if your goal is to use your photographs to communicate something to the rest of the world (presumably why you are displaying them), it is crucial to know that there are people who will not like your photo. If you intend to make your photography into any kind of commercial enterprise, it is vital to know just how many of that type person there are among your target audience.

It doesn't matter if their like/dislike is rational to you -- it exists, and must be accounted-for, since it can't be eliminated.

Rather than rail against part of your audience (customer base?) for their esthetic vacuity, perhaps you should just figure out if your photos appeal to 99% or 84% or 26% of the viewers, and (if necessary) adjust your subjects, style, and expectations accordingly.
 11/10/2004 12:40:20 AM · #44
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
.... Fisrt voters is not crazy about concept and subject, but gives it a 5 because it met the challenge and it appears that the skill level is high.

Second voter enters. Hates the subject (this is a trait in his character. Unable to judge with a cool head, resorts to the infantile hate-love syndrone, this is apparant in their daily lives with I hate and love this.) Besides, it is a studio shot, hate them things, and so comes the 1. Now the score on this picture is ...

First 99 voters are not crazy about concept and subject, but gives it a 5 because it met the challenge and it appears that the skill level is high.
... last voter gives it a one. Now the score is ... 4.960
 11/10/2004 01:18:47 AM · #45
Originally posted by GeneralE:
But if your goal is to use your photographs to communicate something to the rest of the world (presumably why you are displaying them), it is crucial to know that there are people who will not like your photo. If you intend to make your photography into any kind of commercial enterprise, it is vital to know just how many of that type person there are among your target audience.

It doesn't matter if their like/dislike is rational to you -- it exists, and must be accounted-for, since it can't be eliminated.

Rather than rail against part of your audience (customer base?) for their esthetic vacuity, perhaps you should just figure out if your photos appeal to 99% or 84% or 26% of the viewers, and (if necessary) adjust your subjects, style, and expectations accordingly.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
General you miss my point. I am not talking about myself. I have made and making great money in this industry. I am talking about those that come here to learn. your point is well understood that the damage of the one is relative to the total amount of vots.

Message edited by author 2004-11-10 01:21:10.
 11/10/2004 01:25:26 AM · #46
"Spite" ... "Hate" ... "Troll" ...

Any chance that some of the "1" votes might be coming from people who want to score their competition low in order to increase their ranking?

That would be a "troll" voter.
 11/10/2004 01:25:38 AM · #47
While there are those photos that we may have 'seen over and over again,' most shots like the blue ribbon of the October Free Study challenge have something fresh and new about them. I think Photom's shot is fresh and new in many ways. The colorful mountains in the background, the specific point of view, the colors and contrasts throughout the image, the texture of the angle of repose on the side facing us: these things are not 'usually' found in 'sand dune' images, and so besides technical merit, it is original in many ways.

I suppose I'm a bit guilty of voting down an image because I've 'seen it before.' This mostly applies to mallard duck photos--although there are some very interesting ones out there.

I know this was a thread about voting, and not really about specific images, but to dismiss a wonderful photo because you have seen something similar may open the possibility that the photo was not studied as carefully as it might have been. I could look at good portraits, good flower macros, good sunsets and good desert shots for a long time and not get tired of it.
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