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11/01/2004 12:33:28 AM · #26 |
| I think the point is that any kind of zealotry/fundamentalism is a bad thing, whether christian, Muslim, or whatever religion. They lead to extremism and extreme acts and need to be checked. |
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11/01/2004 12:42:32 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
Originally posted by myqyl:
Most real Christians don't have television shows :) Jimmy S is to Christianity what Osama BL is to Islam... |
I wouldn't go that far... I doubt Jimmy Swaggart has ever orgainized a terrorist plot to kill 3000 Muslims. These kinds of comparisons are ridiculous. Osama Bin Ladin is a murderer. Swaggart is just a zealot.
It's crap comparision, not a good one. |
"I'm trying to find the correct name for it ... this utter absolute, asinine, idiotic stupidity of men marrying men. ... I've never seen a man in my life I wanted to marry. And I'm gonna be blunt and plain; if one ever looks at me like that, I'm gonna kill him and tell God he died."
Brother Jimmy has advocated the ruthless murder of people... I stand by my analogy.
Edit : Spell checked :)
Message edited by author 2004-11-01 00:44:05.
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11/01/2004 12:44:28 AM · #28 |
Jim Jones and Koresh were just self-serving radicals ...
To describe them as, were just self serving radicals is in no way accurate.
Jimmy Jones, Jonestown - 914 people were dead in the massacre including Jones himself and 276 children
David Koresh, Waco - 74 men, women and children died - including twelve children younger than five years of age
They certainly were not just self serving radicals; they were monsters of evil.
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11/01/2004 12:55:40 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
WTF is up with you Christain haters? Are you really more angry with Christians then with Muslims who have killed 3000 people only a few years ago? |
My Lord said "Whatever you do to the least of these, you do unto me". He never said to keep score and that it was a greater sin to kill 3000 then to kill one. Killing is wrong. And if you really want to keep score, I suggest you study what "Christians" did during the crusades. Every true Christian I've known, as well as every true Muslim, as well as every true Jew, abhors violence, all violence, as an abomination against God.
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11/01/2004 01:06:44 AM · #30 |
Chris, it is likely that we know more about Christians that have committed atrocities than we do about Muslims that have.
If the newspapers, magazines, and broadcast news published stories about every whacko Muslim cleric... it would take eternity.
I am repulsed by any religion that promotes violence. |
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11/01/2004 08:42:11 AM · #31 |
Wow...I just checked this thread and I really appreciate the conversation going on here!
...and thank you, Zeuszen (and others) for seperating Jesus Christ and those who are truly discipled by his person and teachings from those who use his name as an excuse to serve their own selfish ambitions (such as the crusaders)...
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11/01/2004 08:48:16 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
Originally posted by myqyl:
Most real Christians don't have television shows :) Jimmy S is to Christianity what Osama BL is to Islam... |
I wouldn't go that far... I doubt Jimmy Swaggart has ever orgainized a terrorist plot to kill 3000 Muslims. These kinds of comparisons are ridiculous. Osama Bin Ladin is a murderer. Swaggart is just a zealot.
It's crap comparision, not a good one. |
I think the comparison is a very good one. Notice it's not saying "Jimmy S is the same as Osama B" It's comparing their positions within their respective religions. Nothing more, nothing less.
It's basically like: A is the same as B and B is the same as C, but it doesn't prove that A is the same as C.
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11/01/2004 09:12:33 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by jadin:
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
Originally posted by myqyl:
Most real Christians don't have television shows :) Jimmy S is to Christianity what Osama BL is to Islam... |
I wouldn't go that far... I doubt Jimmy Swaggart has ever orgainized a terrorist plot to kill 3000 Muslims. These kinds of comparisons are ridiculous. Osama Bin Ladin is a murderer. Swaggart is just a zealot.
It's crap comparision, not a good one. |
I think the comparison is a very good one. Notice it's not saying "Jimmy S is the same as Osama B" It's comparing their positions within their respective religions. Nothing more, nothing less.
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That was my feeling, too. Their position seems to be on the outer fringe.
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11/01/2004 09:36:19 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
I think the point is that any kind of zealotry/fundamentalism is a bad thing, whether christian, Muslim, or whatever religion. They lead to extremism and extreme acts and need to be checked. |
Diddo. |
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11/01/2004 09:58:53 AM · #35 |
so why is it that so many people seem to be attracted to this kind of extremist, angry and hate filled brand of religion, whether Christian or Muslim fundamentalism?
As a corrolary question, Why is it that we (in the US) are so open to voting into power those who outwardly espouse a hostile view of the world and at the same time embrace a more fundamentalist view of religion?
Are people that are attracted to fundamentalism projecting the hatred for things they dislike in themselves onto others? For instance, are people who have homosexual feelings the most homophobic? Are people who live under a strict code of theology the ones who do not tolerate the lifestyles and differences in others and are the most vociferous and hate filled against those different from themselves? |
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11/01/2004 10:32:33 AM · #36 |
It's hollywood and the devil (well, sorta the same thing) that tells you religion and faith is only about peace, love, and sunshine. The real history of faith as called on by God himself was much more gruesome and just. God smote Sodum and Gamorrah for being riddled with sin, He had every man, woman and child murdered so their vile life and offspring couldn't spread. They worshiped false idols, were sexually immoral, etc etc and He put an end to it. We're all VERY blessed that we were given grace through His son.
I'm not looking for a debate. I just find it amazing how people have their own ideas of what God is without having much (or any) actual knowledge on the subject.
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11/01/2004 11:10:26 AM · #37 |
Also, make sure you don't confuse fundamentalist and evangelistic. The two are very, very different
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11/01/2004 08:11:00 PM · #38 |
| In my humble opinion, religion is the costliest, most destructive, most dangerous, and most widespread untreated mental illness in the history of human civilization. Unlike most other mental illnesses it is highly contagious and in fact many of its sufferers actively seek to spread the illness to others. It threatens the very future of human civilization. |
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11/01/2004 08:47:54 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
It's hollywood and the devil (well, sorta the same thing) that tells you religion and faith is only about peace, love, and sunshine. The real history of faith as called on by God himself was much more gruesome and just. |
How is some scrawlings on 3000 year-old papyrus any more "proof" of what happened than the version concocted by George Lucas?
There is and probably will never be PROOF of the existence of God. Therefore, it is, as you say, a matter of faith. You are entitled to your faith, but only insofar as it doesn't interfere with my ability to express mine. If I sin, God (by my understanding of your faith) will know and "take care of me" in good time. Why do so many "believers" seem to doubt God's ability to cope with such a minor problem and feel compelled to interfere? |
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11/01/2004 10:28:57 PM · #40 |
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11/01/2004 10:46:24 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by frychikn:
In my humble opinion, religion is the costliest, most destructive, most dangerous, and most widespread untreated mental illness in the history of human civilization. Unlike most other mental illnesses it is highly contagious and in fact many of its sufferers actively seek to spread the illness to others. It threatens the very future of human civilization. |
Well said; I whole heartedly agree.
Until humanity fully abandons mystical and superstitious thinking; we will not reach our full potential and will always live in a world of separation and suffering. Not to mention the impediments on science and rational thinking it creates. |
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11/01/2004 11:04:58 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by frychikn:
In my humble opinion, religion is the costliest, most destructive, most dangerous, and most widespread untreated mental illness in the history of human civilization. Unlike most other mental illnesses it is highly contagious and in fact many of its sufferers actively seek to spread the illness to others. It threatens the very future of human civilization. |
People always hate what they dont understand. |
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11/01/2004 11:06:31 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I just find it amazing how people have their own ideas of what God is without having much (or any) actual knowledge on the subject. |
indeed. |
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11/01/2004 11:07:53 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
[quote=frychikn] Not to mention the impediments on science and rational thinking it creates. |
Science? example please cuz. |
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11/01/2004 11:13:20 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I'm not looking for a debate. I just find it amazing how people have their own ideas of what God is without having much (or any) actual knowledge on the subject. |
You're not looking for a debate, but you're apparently (based on your statements of your religious belief as fact rather than of your personal belief) looking for everyone to unquestionably accept your religious beliefs. The bottom line is that none of us have any "actual knowledge" on the subject. Religious belief is an act of faith; even atheism represents a faith in the idea that there is no Supreme Being.
Mine, for one, differ from yours. I respect your right to your beliefs, and hope you accept my right to mine.
-Terry
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11/01/2004 11:17:41 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I just find it amazing how people have their own ideas of what God is without having much (or any) actual knowledge on the subject. |
There within underscores the problem of prayer in public school. |
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11/01/2004 11:26:13 PM · #47 |
My understanding is that spirituality/religiousity is a personal relationship with a higher power. Basic to that relationship is "faith," which does not predicate itself upon an intellectual understanding, but probably something based more on a visceral feeling that is unique to each person. So then why is it something that a person has to have a "knowledge" of, or something that needs to be learned?
I'm not questioning religiosity per se, but rather how it's dogmatized and rigidified. Seems to me that the way religion (western) has always been carried out is more about a means to control, rather than a developing of a spirituality with a higher power. I'm questioning it's leadership and more human activities than it's personal realtionship with god.
Who would Jesus bomb?
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
It's hollywood and the devil (well, sorta the same thing) that tells you religion and faith is only about peace, love, and sunshine. The real history of faith as called on by God himself was much more gruesome and just. God smote Sodum and Gamorrah for being riddled with sin, He had every man, woman and child murdered so their vile life and offspring couldn't spread. They worshiped false idols, were sexually immoral, etc etc and He put an end to it. We're all VERY blessed that we were given grace through His son.
I'm not looking for a debate. I just find it amazing how people have their own ideas of what God is without having much (or any) actual knowledge on the subject. |
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11/01/2004 11:47:44 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
means to control,
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? Expand on that if you will. Im im interested to know how it is you see that. I too have similar feelings to an extent, yet I believe they develope from a different foundation of undestanding.
Message edited by author 2004-11-01 23:48:03. |
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11/01/2004 11:48:27 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by frychikn:
In my humble opinion, religion is the costliest, most destructive, most dangerous, and most widespread untreated mental illness in the history of human civilization. Unlike most other mental illnesses it is highly contagious and in fact many of its sufferers actively seek to spread the illness to others. It threatens the very future of human civilization. |
In history religon is what held groups of people (factions) together as a unit to fight against other factions and protect themselves. It was meant to be a binding force to the group to keep them together.
I think you are making a mistake calling all religon a mental illness. For a lot of people religon helps them get through life. I'm not particularly religous myself but I've realized that in my past debates with religous people, that I may have hurt their "soul" or "beliefs" and almost taken away something from them that is important to them. So I no longer do that. I let them believe what ever they like and don't question it (as much) because to them it's important.
In the modern age, Christains are far less likely (or radical thinking) then some other religons, and far less likely to kill others in the name of their religon. That's why I get pissed off when comparisons are made to Christainity and Islam, for example. 500 years ago you may have had a point, but today you don't. It's today, not 500 years ago.
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Well said; I whole heartedly agree.
Until humanity fully abandons mystical and superstitious thinking; we will not reach our full potential and will always live in a world of separation and suffering. Not to mention the impediments on science and rational thinking it creates. |
I agree with this, when it gets in the way of modern science and medical science that can help people by bringing cures to things, etc. It's insane to block medical science because of a religous belief in my opinion.
I'm a tranditionalist. I don't like people who want to change the USA's culture by removing the 10 Commandments from court rooms, or removing "One nation under God" from the Pledge of Allegence, or calling a Christmas Tree a Holiday Tree, or trying to get rid of Thanksgiving day, just because a foriegner from another country may not like it.
THEY are the ones that need to adjust to OUR country and traditions. Not the other way around. This country was founded on Christianity so it should stay that way.
Message edited by author 2004-11-01 23:50:34.
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11/01/2004 11:53:16 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Originally posted by frychikn:
In my humble opinion, religion is the costliest, most destructive, most dangerous, and most widespread untreated mental illness in the history of human civilization. Unlike most other mental illnesses it is highly contagious and in fact many of its sufferers actively seek to spread the illness to others. It threatens the very future of human civilization. |
Well said; I whole heartedly agree.
Until humanity fully abandons mystical and superstitious thinking; we will not reach our full potential and will always live in a world of separation and suffering. Not to mention the impediments on science and rational thinking it creates. |
everyone has a religion yours sounds like science and rational thinking, I take it? |
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