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Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

10/28/2004 12:23:27 PM · #3

in my experience, especially with people on dpc, is that they're never satisfied! (well..with equipment anyways). Especially not for a couple of years.

The Canon Pro1 is a great little camera as far as point-and-shoot goes but if you already know quite a bit about photography and are used to an SLR, than it'll probably get old REAL quick.

Sticking with Canon, look at the 300D (digital Rebel). Great DSLR for not a ton of coin. There are hundreds of threads on here about the Rebel. (I owned one last year).

Message edited by author 2004-10-28 12:24:06.

doctornick

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

10/28/2004 12:25:14 PM · #4

If you have used a Film SLR before you will definitely feel at home with a DSLR. I was going nuts using my G2 coming from a film Elan II SLR, I missed the responsiveness and control and viewfinder of an SLR. Don`t look back, go for a DSLR, you won`t regret it.

10/28/2004 12:27:45 PM · #5

SLR-like cameras will definatly satify you i beleive.. I have the 828, and i'm loving it. I went through the decision process of either getting this, or a canon 300D, when i realised how much more money i'd be using for the 300d by getting all that extra stuff i'd need, like lenses. (btw, i had a sony 717 before the 828, and felt like it was a worthwhile upgrade.. some people feel the need to go from an slr-like camera to a DSLR without thinking if they realllly need a DSLR).

My SLR-like camera is compact (for something with a 28-200mm lense), and i never hesitate to bring it with me everywhere (if it's not on me, it's in my car or nearby). I dont need to lug around a bag with different lenses in case i need a telephoto... wide angle.. or macro shot.

here are some recent (in the last month) examples of my 828. there's a variety of pics, from action shots (soccer) to nature landscapes.

//refracted.rmcreations.ca/weekend1/index.htm

//refracted.rmcreations.ca/weekend2/index.htm

//refracted.rmcreations.ca/weekend3/index.htm

//refracted.rmcreations.ca/week4/index.htm

//refracted.rmcreations.ca/weekend4/

I also went to the store, and held both in my hand, used them a bit.. got to know the interface and features, and still came out with the 828 instead of the 300D. You'll have to find out yourself which one is best for you, but i'm happy with the choice i made.

Brock

Canon PowerShot Pro1

10/28/2004 12:30:06 PM · #6

you guys are not going to help my relationship with my wife if I fall to my lust after the DSLR...hahaha

One reason I wanted the 8mp is for the ability to do large spreads. I like doing large format pics for prints or calendar submissions...and also think I might like to work in RAW format and then adjust after the fact to maintain quality. If the price of the Canon 20D drops any I might go for it...I definately do not want to get bored with anything I buy and then have to turn around and sell it to get what I thought I could not justify.

My friend has the Minolta Dimage A2 but I read of some quality issues and durability issues...were these isolated or early runs you think? Another frind has the Canon 10D and loves it...but has racked up a few thousand on lenses and such...hahha

I look forward to more replies....but maybe my future is to have the Pro1 and then also add a DSLR in a year or two if the urge hits me too strong. Thanks again...

Message edited by author 2004-10-28 12:32:09.

10/28/2004 12:36:06 PM · #7

for what it's worth, the sony's 828's 8mp and raw are great.. they make great crisp prints, and goes as low as ISO 64 (or ASA 64 if you're more used to film..)

GoldBerry

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

10/28/2004 12:38:49 PM · #8

Refracted, did you have an SLR before? I think the issue Brock is facing is .. well, it's sort of 'down grading' to go to a non-SLR. Even if it's a good cam like you say the 828 is. I think it's just a mental issue! :-)

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

10/28/2004 12:40:46 PM · #9

yeah. i had an old minolta SLR, but i'm happy now not to have to switch a lense to possibly miss a shot :)i can just pick up the camera, and shoot.. and not think about equipment.

Chiqui

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

10/28/2004 12:50:06 PM · #10

Shameless advertising here! I'm selling my Minolta DiMage 7i. It is a pseudo-SLR and I love it. I'm selling it cause it dont use it and I'm trying to buy a lens that is very expensive.

//cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48540&item=3849154525&rd=1

June

Brock

Canon PowerShot Pro1

10/28/2004 01:22:14 PM · #11

Thanks but I think I am set on getting a newer 8mp, the only question is do I go SLR at the beginning...or SLR-like and upgrade later if I am not satisfied? Thanks for the link to your offer...:P

Originally posted by chiqui74:

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/28/2004 01:27:21 PM · #12

I'm backing Refracted's recommendation. Best bang for your buck.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

10/28/2004 01:30:06 PM · #13

Originally posted by Brock:

Thanks but I think I am set on getting a newer 8mp, the only question is do I go SLR at the beginning...or SLR-like and upgrade later if I am not satisfied? Thanks for the link to your offer...:P

Originally posted by chiqui74:
Shameless advertising here! I'm selling my Minolta DiMage 7i. It is a pseudo-SLR and I love it. I'm selling it cause it dont use it and I'm trying to buy a lens that is very expensive.

//cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48540&item=3849154525&rd=1

June

Don't get hung up on Megapixels. A 5 or 6 MP DSLR will produce better image quality than a 8MP "prosumer" model. This is mostly due to the much higher signal to noise ratio present in a DSLR.

I would recommend picking up a Nikon D70, a Canon 10D or even the new Olympus Evolt.

GoldBerry

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

10/28/2004 01:37:18 PM · #14

I'm agreeing with the last post....megapixels are only good if the entire package knows how to handle them.

The sony 717 and 828 have noise issues I'm told (by their owners). I'm not sure what size print or what settings that applies to. But I've read reviews like that.

The Nikon D70 and Canon 10D are comparable...but more money.

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

10/28/2004 01:39:02 PM · #15

One camera to definitely consider is the new (not yet out, but coming by Dec) is the Olympus Evolt (E-300). It is a DSLR without a pentaprism, making for a sleeker and slightly smaller camera body and easier to carry around. It's 8 mp and part of the 4/3rds standard and will only accept lenses of the 4/3rds system. This camera does have an optical viewfinder, but it's of the Porro kind, and a little dimmer than pentaprism. So far there are no images to view taken by this camera, but if it's anything like it's big brother, the E1, then it's a promising choice. It's going to be priced to compete with the Canon digital Rebel, most likely between $800 and $1000 and will come with a 14-45mm (2x crop factor) kit lens. 28mm on the wide side should be enough for most people. Olympus Zuiko lenses are very high quality, but compared with Canon L lenses are smaller and cheaper.

vontom

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

10/28/2004 01:58:11 PM · #16

Now, I don't know much about Canon's film cameras, but if you'd prefer to "stick" with Canon, I might assume you had a lens or two, and if they were EF lenses, they will work with the Canon dSLRs. Thereby reducing some of the cost. And, here's a link for you to check out:
//www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscf828/page19.asp
//www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscf828/page20.asp
//www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/page14.asp

That should illustrate the relative quality of the sensor chips.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/28/2004 02:05:20 PM · #17

Originally posted by GoldBerry:

The Sonys definitely have more noise. The noise will show at higher ISO settings (pronounced under low light conditions and as a result of increasing contrast/decreasing brightness during post processing). Magnification and large crops can conribute to making the noise more visible.

While DSLRs deliver nearly noise-free images in most but extreme situations, they're also quite costly, as a system, when you compare with the F717s/F828s. My 10D, so far, has cost me CDN $ 7.000.

They are more cumbersome, more complex, much heavier and quite sensitive. When I bought the 10D, the first thing I noticed was how many shots I was missing.

The Sonys have a few very useful features which either all DSLRs or some do not have: spot-meter, swivel body etc. Despite the noise issues, the Sonys, in my book, remain some of the best all-around compacts I have ever had the pleasure of using, and I have seen some very remarkable images come out of them.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

10/28/2004 02:20:14 PM · #18

the noise "issue" isn't even an issue with me.. people blow that way out of proportion. I accept the fact that ISO 400 and 800 are probably unusable for a high quality print from my camera, but then again, i've never had a need yet to use such a high ISO. I dont shoot concerts or low light situation or indoor sports, so it's a non-issue for me. I stick to ISO 64, and i get creamy smooth 8 megapixel goodness. And it IS 8 megapixels, so there is definatly more detail than in a 5 or 6 megapixel photo.

i dont quite agree with this:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Don't get hung up on Megapixels. A 5 or 6 MP DSLR will produce better image quality than a 8MP "prosumer" model.

since this really only starts happening at the higher ISO ratings.

If you plan on making large prints, i'd opt for a higher megapixel camera, regardless if it's a prosumer or dslr.

Message edited by author 2004-10-28 14:21:05.

vontom

Canon EOS-20D

10/28/2004 02:26:54 PM · #19

refacted, out of curiousity (not trying to start a flame-war or anything) how big have you printed with your 828 before the noise became an issue? How small could you crop your pictures and still have them be usable for a 4x6 at photo quality?

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

10/28/2004 02:31:07 PM · #20

i haven't tested the limits yet. But if i compare my 828 photos to my 717 photos, which was a top 5mp prosumer camera, the 828 has just about the same image quality, but with more resolution. I could crop my 8mp 828 image to 5mp, and get a 717-quality image out of it, if that helps you any.

Chiqui

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

10/28/2004 02:31:34 PM · #21

BTW, keep in mind that it's not all about the MP.

June

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/28/2004 02:34:02 PM · #22

Originally posted by vontom:

I have printed 16x20s (some of which were cropped by, perhaps, 15% - 20%, from the original), without discernible noise - Sony 717, 5 mps.

10/28/2004 02:47:32 PM · #23

Originally posted by chiqui74:

BTW, keep in mind that it's not all about the MP.

June

you're right, it's not.. but it's a factor. 8 megapixels has 60% more information than 5 megapixels.. that gives you either 1) alot of liberty for cropping, or 2) sharper images.

another comparison is that for example, i take a picture at full zoom on my 717, at 5mp. i then stand in the same spot, and take a picture at the same zoom with my 828, at 8mp. If i crop the 828's image to 5mp, the resulting image is as though i was using a 1.6X telephoto extention on the 717. That gives you much more reach and versatility.

just something to think about.

awpollard

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

10/28/2004 02:50:39 PM · #24

Originally posted by Brock:

...

I prefer to stay with Canon though have had good experience with Minolta in past as well when borrowing units from friends. I have been looking seriously at the Sony F828, the Canon Powershot Pro1, and the Konica Minolta Dimage A2 as my main choices....though something about the Canon D20 makes me want to wait a bit longer and save my money to get it instead. I also realize there is more to the expenses than just the camera with any SLR...hahaha...as extra lenses and filter kits can add up...especially quality lenses.

I intend to get back into mostly stills, nature and maybe a few action shots...and enter some for calendars or contest...who knows how much I will get into it.

Do you think one of the fixed lense cameras like the CANON PRO1 would satisfy me for a couple years before I have the need to move onto a dSLR? ...or will my previous experience with SLRs in 35mm format make me feel restricted by the more simplistic possibilities?

Thanks for any suggestions and comments....though I am leaning toward the Canon Pro1.

I've had my Pro1 since may and just went over 10,500 shots with it and I love it. I have the x1.5 Teleconverter (add 199.00 lens + 50.00 for the adapter) which takes me to 300MM equivalent and takes excellent shots. SuperMacro is superb at just a little more than an inch. The "L" series glass produces execellent colors and clarity. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to do the menus.

IMO The Sony and Minolta was a bit soft for my liking. The Pro1 and A2 both have a little learning curve when shooting action through the (EVF) Electronic View Finder (I think the sony is through the lens???), pause and freeze for a second when you have all the automatic crap turned on (I use Kentucky windage (autofire in the general direction)and catch all the action I need). I shot primarily full manual and will drop back to Av or Tv mode from time to time.

Here's where I become honest...I got my Prosumer because I knew that I would become a lens junkie if I had a dSLR, I went with Canon for "L" series glass and way simple menuing.

My advice to you would be, if you are even a tiny bit serious about photograpy, go dSLR now. If I had it all to do again I would go dSLR (I do love my Pro1 but I see a 20D in my very near future).

I seen the Canon 20D here with a kit lens 28mm-80mm (I beleive) at bestbuy for $1599.00 with $100.00 off over the weekend. Add a lens that will cover the up 80-200mm range and you have the same range these prosumers (x7 optical) will do and you have a body that you can upgrade. Or add a lens that covers 80mm-300mm and you can cover the Pro1 + x1.5 Teleconveter range.

Really, save up the extra $500-$600 and go dSLR with the Kit lens and go big later. You will want wider wide angle and you will want longer zoom and faster lens later anyways. If all you are going to do is snaps go with a 7MP pocket camera...they are excellent.

The 8MP Prosumers are nice but they are not pocket cameras nor are they high end rigs (when people see you shot they won't take you serious until they see the pictures out of em or 14x11 or better prints).