Portraits: Flash vs fast lens - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

10/15/2004 07:58:35 PM · #1

Taking portraits, particularly outdoors, I tend to always use a flash. The sunshine here tends to be savage, so it greatly helps with the shadows.

However .....

That limits me to 1/250th of a second exposure (unless I use full manual, which I really am not ready for).

However (again) .....

I want to use a far larger apperture for that wonderful shallow DOF.

So .... what's the trick?

Any tips/tricks?????

soup

Canon EOS-30D

10/15/2004 08:00:11 PM · #2

i wish the flash wasn't limited like that, if it wasn't i would always use the flash for portraits where the eyes are involved.

VisiBlanco

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

10/15/2004 08:13:02 PM · #3

Are you saying your flash is blowing out the photo at a larger aperature? If so, shutter speed will not make any difference at all (because the flash only emits for 1/1000 second or less). You'll need to dial down your flash intensity. I believe you can do this with the 20d's builtin flash, a 550ex may suit your needs better though.

parrothead

Canon EOS-40D

10/15/2004 08:25:25 PM · #4

Using a long lens will also make for wonderful shallow depth of field. I do some studio work, but 99% of my buisness is outdoor portraiture. When at all possible shoot in bright shade, and always use a flash. You can use exposure compensation on your 20d to turn the flash down a stop. And shooting in manual will teach you quickly how to compensate your exposure. I ONLY shoot manual now, and you get used to it quick!

VisiBlanco

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

10/15/2004 09:12:38 PM · #5

Also, you could have the model or an assistant hold a reflector to soften those shadows naturally.

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

10/16/2004 01:51:34 AM · #6

The canon 420 and 550 flashes both have high speed sync mode. You can fire a flash as fast as you want... you aren't really limited to 1/250".

kiwinick

Sony DSLR-A550

Sony DT 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical ED Zoom Lens for Sony Alpha

10/16/2004 02:39:26 AM · #7

I use one of those collapsable reflectors and find it excellent, I have mine mounted on an old tripod so I can place the light most places

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/17/2004 02:43:40 AM · #8

Thanks for the tips there guys

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

The canon 420 and 550 flashes both have high speed sync mode. You can fire a flash as fast as you want... you aren't really limited to 1/250".

Can you expand on this please John.

I have the 420, and even with the switch on it in high speed sync the 10/20D seems to not let me go faster than 1/250 (1/200 on the 10D).

What am I missing or doing wrong? How do I get the faster speeds?

doctornick

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

10/17/2004 02:46:44 AM · #9

Originally posted by Natator:

...I have the 420, and even with the switch on it in high speed sync the 10/20D seems to not let me go faster than 1/250 (1/200 on the 10D).

What am I missing or doing wrong? How do I get the faster speeds?

Shoot in Manual mode, that will allow you to choose the speed you want.

Message edited by author 2004-10-17 02:47:15.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/17/2004 06:25:36 PM · #10

Originally posted by doctornick:

Shoot in Manual mode, that will allow you to choose the speed you want.

K ...... and will that adjust the power of the flash to suite, or just fire the flash at the standard OOMPH .... I have the 420 and can't adjust that on the actual flash unit.

doctornick

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

10/17/2004 09:54:16 PM · #11

What I meant was shoot in Manual mode on your camera and leave the flash on auto E-TTL. The flash output will be adjusted to go with the Camera setting.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

10/17/2004 10:37:26 PM · #12

I understand all the reasons folks use fill flash, but I'll throw a divergent opinion in here. I love existing-light portraits, and I love the challenge of shooting them, especially candids.
That's not to say I don't ever use fill flash or a reflector, but I like natural light the best. Hre's one of my recent ones...

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

10/17/2004 10:49:54 PM · #13

Originally posted by Natator:

Thanks for the tips there guys

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
The canon 420 and 550 flashes both have high speed sync mode. You can fire a flash as fast as you want... you aren't really limited to 1/250".

Can you expand on this please John.

I have the 420, and even with the switch on it in high speed sync the 10/20D seems to not let me go faster than 1/250 (1/200 on the 10D).

What am I missing or doing wrong? How do I get the faster speeds?

Shoot in aperture priority and turn the high speed sych switch on the flash to the ON position. It should let you go to whatever shutter speed the aperture needs... It works for me.

parrothead

Canon EOS-40D

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

10/17/2004 10:52:47 PM · #14

I didnt even realize that JM. I only shoot in manual, and it defaults back to a 200/th I think?? If I shot in AV it would let me use whatever shutter speed I needed?

10/18/2004 03:34:26 AM · #15

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Shoot in aperture priority and turn the high speed sych switch on the flash to the ON position. It should let you go to whatever shutter speed the aperture needs... It works for me.

Ok, this is what I am getting .....

Set to Av mode, room is fairly dark ...

1) If I have the Custom Function set to the fixed 1/250 mode I can change the aperture, the shutter speed remains at 1/250 regardless. Shot is correctly exposed. I assume this is because the power of the flash has been adjusted automatically to give the correct amount of light.

2) Turn off the custom setting. Now I am getting between 30" and 8" (I can only go down to f4.0 with this lens)shutter speed, depending on the aperture. Take the pic, flash fires, shutter remains open for x seconds. Photo is correctly exposed.

I think it must be this second mode John is referring to.

Quite obviously the camera can shoot at 1/250th with this flash, potentially even faster. However, now in Av mode I seem to be limited to 8" (at this low light) and can't force the camera in Av mode to take anything any faster.

So, messed around a little more, went to Tv mode.

3) Same basic story as with Av mode except I can now force the shutter speed to be faster than 1/250 (although exposure will be wrong) and get a small "H" appear in the view finder for High-Speed-Sync. Same with manual mode.

Set the shutter to 1/2000 and it tells me photo will be under exposed, but at least 2 stops. Take it, all looks fine. Start upping the shutter speed, all fine even to 1/8000 although by then yes, it is starting to get under exposed, but not stupidly. You can notice the flash intensity getting notibly brighter. I have no idea why it is showing me it will become under exposed, when it then compensates by upping the flash intensity (I assume).

4) Manual mode. Can set to a huge range of aperture and shutter speed combinations and any combination (within certain limits) ends up correctly exposed. For instance, I can expose correctly at 1/1000th for any aperture on the lens. Again, the flash intensity is being adjusted.

This would be extra really neat, except that the exposure indicator is constantly showing me it is not gonna work, which very misleading to say the least, and a problem as you do not know at what point it will actually not work.

Anyone cast any more insight into this?

Message edited by author 2004-10-18 03:43:09.

floyd

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

10/18/2004 05:06:03 AM · #16

A very useful site that explains almost everything you need to know about EOS flash photography and why your camera is behaving the way it is.

Flash Photography with Canon EOS Cameras - Part I.

Thanks to Setz for this link originally I think.

John

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

10/18/2004 05:53:25 PM · #17

Ahh yes, I had complete forgotten about that flash photography article, read it about a year ago. I forgot how in depth it is and that it covers just about everything!

Thanks for the link Floyd, I had lost it.

tjandjwsmith

Nikon D800

10/19/2004 11:36:41 AM · #18

Here's another thought for you. If you do environmental portraiture under a savage sky, you can use subtractive lighting over the top of their head to get rid of the "racoon eyes" the a high-in-the-sky light source creates. Try using a photoflex reflector, piece of black matt board, or windshield screen from your car held over the head of the person you're shooting. Move it back and forth and watch the shadows under the eyes go away. By taking away the overhead light, you're essentially creating a big light box out of the sky in front of them which will beautifully light their face and still give them a catch light in the eye from the sky's reflection. Good luck!

thatcloudthere

Canon EOS-1D

10/19/2004 12:16:16 PM · #19

Originally posted by Natator:

Thanks for the link Floyd

hehe...link Floyd.