| Author | Thread |
|
|
09/08/2004 08:06:44 PM · #1 |
One of the cornerstones of the "Bush hates the poor" arguements of the Kerry campaign (and liberals in general) is the outsourcing of jobs which Bush is supposedly responsible for. Statements like "Bush's policies have encouraged the loss of nearly 3 million jobs" and "He supported tax breaks for corporations that ship jobs overseas" make it sound like he was personally behind the "loophole" that provides tax credits to corporations who outsource. I will admit this has concerned me, from the standpoint of not knowing what those loopholes are, of not knowing what, if anything, George Bush did to create or encourage those loopholes, or whether it was just another smear tactic in a political campaign.
Among the reasons for me to be skeptical of this claim was the fact that, as those of us in the technology industries should remember, outsourcing has been a big issue in high tech since the mid 90s. So I was curious how it was that George Bush could possibly be responsible for something that started long before his presidency.
After some googling, and finding lots of useless info from all points of the spectrum, I finally found the page below. I had been to this site before once or twice (I think the link originally came up in this forum), but had forgotten about it. If you're not familiar with it, FactCheck.org is a non-partisan site which basically takes to task the claims and accusations from both sides of the campaign and checks the voracity. I haven't been through the entire site, but it seems very balanced. There are articles supporting and discrediting claims from both parties, and with no apparent malice or bias to either side.
Anyway, this is what they have to say on the subject of outsourcing, and on Kerry's (and the liberal's in general) attacks on Bush on the subject:
Kerry Blames Corporate Tax Code for Shipping Jobs Overseas
But economists say "outsourcing" jobs overseas is a minor problem that Kerry's plan wouldn't do much to fix.
The key points I gleened from this article:
1) George Bush did not invent, create or increase outsourcing, nor the tax "loophole" which is blamed for encouraging outsourcing, in fact...
2) Said tax "loophole" has been in place probably since before many of us were born (no specific date is given, but it's existed since corporations started to be taxed), and...
3) Said tax "loophole" probably has a very negligable impact on the decision to outsource.
4) Outsourcing is not the demon that liberals are trying to make it (very hard to accept when its your job that's been exported, I understand, but then this is the democrats playing on your fears and emotions).
5) Kerry's plan at best probably won't "fix" outsourcing, and (in my lay-analysis) could make the situation worse in the long term.
And, just to wrap this up, there's another question that rises in my mind when considering all of this. John Kerry has been in a position to propose his fix for what, 20-30 years? Why hasn't he done something before now, while he was in both the house and the senate and could have actually proposed legislation to fix this supposedly dire situation? Just what has John Kerry done with all his years in congress? |
|
|
|
09/09/2004 07:50:36 PM · #2 |
Come on, this is important stuff...
(Since the MadMan and deBode always bump their posts when they get ignored....) |
|
|
|
09/09/2004 08:34:44 PM · #3 |
whoo hoooo a Kerry Krushing post !!!!
Your points are very valid and very true. Just what did Kerry do during his political career, how come he did not fix these tax loopholes years ago, and how come he has not refined the health car system yet, heck he's had a long time in political office.
James
|
|
|
|
09/09/2004 09:52:11 PM · #4 |
anybody else want to join in????
|
|
|
|
09/09/2004 09:56:48 PM · #5 |
Outsourcing is great. America needs to learn how to compete with the global market rather then cry about it not being fair.
|
|
|
|
09/09/2004 11:35:56 PM · #6 |
ok tell me how it is great, I certainaly dont see it that way. The only benefit I see to american companies is they save some money by cutting hundreds if not thousands of jobs so some one in India can do the work over there. But the US company will not reduce their product/service cost, it just wont increase in the next year. Mean while back in the US people cant buy stuff because they are out of work and cant find work in the US because more and more jobs are being out sourced to other countries.
I have been seeing this trend for about 8 years now. Many of the companies I deal with have cut their employee base so they could outsource their work.
I spend,on average, at least $20 milloin dollars a year of my companies money I keep quotes and compare them several times a year and even from a few years back, but still no savings to my company because of outsourcing.
So please show me a few examples how outsourcing is good
James
|
|
|
|
09/10/2004 12:13:46 AM · #7 |
How much would a new car cost if every bit of it was made in Detroit by union workers? Had they not started outsourcing, do you think GM, Ford, and Chrysler would still be producing cars that could compete with Toyota, Honda and Nissan? Do you think they would even exist today if the never started outsourcing?
It sucks to see jobs lost overseas but it's better then watching American companies not be able to compete with imports and go out of business.
|
|
|
|
09/10/2004 09:01:52 AM · #8 |
They would probablly not be much more than they are now, because the american made cars would still have to compete in the market place.
If the union workers were not so lazy and demanding the American companies could reduce their product cost and increase profit. I understand the union has done a lot of good for the average american worker over the years, but do we really still need the unions? Quality work is quality work regardless if the person doing the work is union or not. The foreign car makers pay their US NON-union workers less than the American car companies pay their union workers, but for some odd reason the foreign cars are better built.
Several car makers like BMW, Nissan, Honda and Toyota all make cars here in the USA, several more will start making cars here soon (Hyundai, Mercedes Benz). Granted this gives US workers jobs and helps the US economy somewhat, but it hurts the US car companies like ford and GM because they have to offer up rebates on cars to sell them. The foreign car makers historically produce better made vehicles that last longer for a lower cost, I have owned a few so no argument there
give this story a read
Cars
James |
|
|
|
09/10/2004 10:57:13 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by jab119:
If the union workers were not so lazy and demanding the American companies could reduce their product cost and increase profit. I understand the union has done a lot of good for the average american worker over the years, but do we really still need the unions? Quality work is quality work regardless if the person doing the work is union or not. The foreign car makers pay their US NON-union workers less than the American car companies pay their union workers, but for some odd reason the foreign cars are better built. |
A little more harsh then I would put it, but it's exactly what I mean when I say we need to learn how to compete with a global market. If you want to earn more money then the guy next to you, you need to put out higher quality and productivity.
I'll catch hell for it, but I'd argue that unions are the cause of a high percentage of outsourcing. Before safety regulations, workmans comp and labor laws there needed to be a union. Today, I think they just hurt our ability to compete with the world. I've worked in union shops and non-union shops and there is a big difference.
|
|
|
|
09/10/2004 09:55:39 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by louddog:
Originally posted by jab119:
If the union workers were not so lazy and demanding the American companies could reduce their product cost and increase profit. I understand the union has done a lot of good for the average american worker over the years, but do we really still need the unions? Quality work is quality work regardless if the person doing the work is union or not. The foreign car makers pay their US NON-union workers less than the American car companies pay their union workers, but for some odd reason the foreign cars are better built. |
A little more harsh then I would put it, but it's exactly what I mean when I say we need to learn how to compete with a global market. If you want to earn more money then the guy next to you, you need to put out higher quality and productivity.
I'll catch hell for it, but I'd argue that unions are the cause of a high percentage of outsourcing. Before safety regulations, workmans comp and labor laws there needed to be a union. Today, I think they just hurt our ability to compete with the world. I've worked in union shops and non-union shops and there is a big difference. |
The problem with the unions is that they lost touch with the workers whom they were supposed to be protecting and representing, and basically became corporations themselves. |
|
|
|
09/11/2004 02:10:22 PM · #11 |
McDonald's franchisees in Cape Girardeau, Mo., Brainerd, Minn., and Norwood, Mass., recently began outsourcing their drive-thru order-taking to a call center in Colorado Springs, Colo. Thus, a Big Mac order shouted into a microphone in Missouri gets typed into a computer in Colorado (and a digital photograph of the customer's car is taken in order to reduce errors) and then clicked back to the originating restaurant's kitchen, which has the order ready in less time (30 seconds less, on average, with fewer errors) than the average McDonald's takes. [International Herald Tribune-New York Times, 7-19-04]
|
|
|
|
09/11/2004 04:21:44 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by ScottK:
If you're not familiar with it, FactCheck.org is a non-partisan site which basically takes to task the claims and accusations from both sides of the campaign and checks the voracity. |
A strangely apt mistake :-) I preusme veracity is your meaning, but then they're all a pretty voracious bunch, these politicians.
E
|
|
|
|
09/11/2004 05:48:03 PM · #13 |
what I mean when I say we need to learn how to compete with a global market. If you want to earn more money then the guy next to you, you need to put out higher quality and productivity.
I thought we had to learn to live on $100 a month in order to compete in the global market, no? |
|
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 08/29/2025 09:50:11 AM EDT.
