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08/03/2004 01:34:29 PM · #1 |
Anyone have any clue or hear any good rumors when Canon might try to leapfrog the D70 and produce a Rebel II?
I've seen the rumors about the new 10D (the 7D). But I am interested in something under <$1000 like the Rebel. I don't have lenses yet so I could go with the D70, but I do want the lower noise I presume that comes from the CMOS sensor. (And I do already have the Canon 420 flash, and the Canon off camera cable already.)
I've been patiently waiting for the next generation, but my patience is running thin!
Thanks in advance for any hope you can offer.
Neil
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08/03/2004 01:41:31 PM · #2 |
Don't wait...there will ALWAYS be a better model coming up in 6 months. Find the camera system that satisfies your photographic needs now and take the plunge. Remember that camera bodies come and go but good lenses will stay with you for a long time.
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08/03/2004 01:42:48 PM · #3 |
Do Canon have much of an incentive to offer a DSLR at say $500 ? Will they shift more than 2x the units that the did with the Drebel at $1000...
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08/03/2004 02:06:43 PM · #4 |
If Canon had a DSLR in the $500 dollar range (I will assume body only), I would have purchased it a loooong time ago. Heck, I would consider picking up a second body for back-up.
Even now, I would consider looking at a second body, if a brand new Canon was released in the $500 range. Even if it had a less features then the Digital Rebel. For instance, things like no 1600 ISO setting, a slower max shutter w/o flash speed, slower max shutter w/ flash, no Bulb, no Manual functions, just Aperture, Shutter, ADEP and the Automatic settings.
As long as the clarity and capabilities of the CMOS was comparable to the Digital Rebel, it would be a decent back-up/travel camera for my needs.
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08/03/2004 02:16:20 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Do Canon have much of an incentive to offer a DSLR at say $500 ? Will they shift more than 2x the units that the did with the Drebel at $1000... |
I don't want it cheaper than the rebel. I want them to address some of the issues that have been raised, to steal back some of the customers they are losing to the D70 due to shooting speed, etc. (And I want it to be smaller! I believe they are bigger than the film rebels, and I don't understand why.)
And I want it in black. ;-) |
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08/03/2004 02:16:57 PM · #6 |
December 2004 / January 2005, just like the New 1Ds. Probably announced at Photokina.
The new 10D is supposedly available early september and will be 8mp, no word on the sensor size yet. Probable announcement date is August 23.
Here are some links, believe what you want to believe, but Paul Pope is my Pope.
//forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=9757612
//forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=9757649
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08/03/2004 02:20:50 PM · #7 |
Until Canon gets pressure from another manufaturer putting out a DSLR for under the 1K price of the DReb, I don't see why they would go that way. The only thing it would take market share from is an existing model that they own. The rumor is that the 20d, will go after the d70 market between the 300d and the 10d, with a bigger buffer or sensor crop of 1.3 or something more cooler and badder. I have heard nothing that would indicate that a lower end DSLR is being contemplated. Of course your rumor is as good as mine.
Message edited by author 2004-08-03 14:22:10. |
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08/03/2004 02:31:19 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
. I have heard nothing that would indicate that a lower end DSLR is being contemplated. Of course your rumor is as good as mine. |
A possibility is that the 300D will not be ditched by Canon. It could very well be lowered to USD600 to make room for a new model in the Rebel line-up. It would be a very aggresive marketing move, but these first couple of years are the most important.
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08/03/2004 02:39:28 PM · #9 |
I honestly can't see Canon releasing a cheaper, lower spec model than the 300D. Moreover the 300D will be surpassed by newer models and will probalby be <$500 in 2 years time when we are all shooting with 11mp full size sensors, 3200 ISO and 8fps for $1500 allblack, built in monopod xxx macro as standard on all lenses (free bugs) etc etc.
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08/03/2004 05:00:28 PM · #10 |
..or you could just get the D70 ; ) Trust me, it is NOT noisy
Originally posted by nshapiro:
I don't want it cheaper than the rebel. I want them to address some of the issues that have been raised, to steal back some of the customers they are losing to the D70 due to shooting speed, etc. (And I want it to be smaller! I believe they are bigger than the film rebels, and I don't understand why.)
And I want it in black. ;-) |
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08/03/2004 05:05:58 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Maverick:
..or you could just get the D70 ; ) Trust me, it is NOT noisy |
Compared to a 300D, it is. ;-P |
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08/03/2004 05:11:12 PM · #12 |
Measurebate all you want = ) I doubt you'd see any difference (in noise) when printed or when viewed at a size other than 100%..
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by Maverick:
..or you could just get the D70 ; ) Trust me, it is NOT noisy |
Compared to a 300D, it is. ;-P |
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08/03/2004 05:14:35 PM · #13 |
Some days I like noise in my shots :)
ISO 400
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08/04/2004 07:09:51 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by Maverick:
..or you could just get the D70 ; ) Trust me, it is NOT noisy |
Compared to a 300D, it is. ;-P |
I would suggest that this is speculative at best... I've read quite a few reviews which rave about the Nikon's lack of noise, especially its ability to shoot through ISO 400 with no significant artifacts. I've used my D70 in all types of conditions and not once have I said "Wow, its so noisy, I wish I had a Rebel." I have to really crank up the editing to get noise, and then I deserve it!
The other thing to consider is that in most cases the optics are much more significant than the body (assuming we're comparing two quality units), and the D70's kit lense runs circles around the 300D kit lense. That's not subjective - it's measured and factual. That's not to say you can't buy a Rebel body and switch the lense, but then you'd be paying quite a bit more than the Rebel's street price.
Let's face it, they're both good cameras. If you're ready to buy now, and the D70's higher price isn't out of reach I would go for it. If saving a bit helps, then go for the Rebel. Take a look at the camera pages for both models and ask yourself if you think those photographers are limited in any way by their equipment.
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08/04/2004 07:24:48 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by cghubbell:
I would suggest that this is speculative at best... I've read quite a few reviews which rave about the Nikon's lack of noise, especially its ability to shoot through ISO 400 with no significant artifacts. I've used my D70 in all types of conditions and not once have I said "Wow, its so noisy, I wish I had a Rebel." I have to really crank up the editing to get noise, and then I deserve it!
The other thing to consider is that in most cases the optics are much more significant than the body (assuming we're comparing two quality units), and the D70's kit lense runs circles around the 300D kit lense. That's not subjective - it's measured and factual. That's not to say you can't buy a Rebel body and switch the lense, but then you'd be paying quite a bit more than the Rebel's street price.
Let's face it, they're both good cameras. If you're ready to buy now, and the D70's higher price isn't out of reach I would go for it. If saving a bit helps, then go for the Rebel. Take a look at the camera pages for both models and ask yourself if you think those photographers are limited in any way by their equipment. |
Gosh... You are like trying to take all the fun out of the elitism of us Canon people. We need this, just like Mac users need to feel superior to PC users.
Hmmm... Maybe you are doing this because of the way that 'Nikon users' are traditionally raised... ;-P (Just a little funny... no real offense meant...)
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08/04/2004 07:38:19 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by cghubbell:
I would suggest that this is speculative at best... I've read quite a few reviews which rave about the Nikon's lack of noise, especially its ability to shoot through ISO 400 with no significant artifacts. |
Well I was quite surprised at how noisy this shot was:
which Mehmet said in this thread was taken at "iso 400 around f-stop 7 and 200 shutter speed". I would have expected the out-of-focus cement to be buttery smooth (but then again, I'm used to Canon CMOS)... |
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08/04/2004 07:42:26 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by cghubbell:
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by Maverick:
..or you could just get the D70 ; ) Trust me, it is NOT noisy |
Compared to a 300D, it is. ;-P |
I would suggest that this is speculative at best... I've read quite a few reviews which rave about the Nikon's lack of noise, especially its ability to shoot through ISO 400 with no significant artifacts. I've used my D70 in all types of conditions and not once have I said "Wow, its so noisy, I wish I had a Rebel." I have to really crank up the editing to get noise, and then I deserve it! |
All that you've said doesn't disprove what I said - the 300D IS less noisy than the D70. |
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08/04/2004 07:50:36 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by Nelzie:
Even now, I would consider looking at a second body, if a brand new Canon was released in the $500 range. Even if it had a less features then the Digital Rebel. For instance, things like no 1600 ISO setting, a slower max shutter w/o flash speed, slower max shutter w/ flash, no Bulb, no Manual functions, just Aperture, Shutter, ADEP and the Automatic settings.
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Why dont you bye a compact or SLR like if you dont need any of the above? |
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08/04/2004 08:29:00 AM · #19 |
I'm waiting for an affordable Minolta DSLR which will have the IS mechanism incorporated into the body (SUCH a great idea!), and quality similar to a Rebel. I don't think I'm going to be waiting too long. Minolta lenses are pretty good and very underrated apparently.
Don't forget the new Pentax DSLR will be out soon as well, which will be competing on a price level with the Rebel.
Message edited by author 2004-08-04 08:29:40. |
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08/04/2004 10:14:35 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by garlic:
Originally posted by Nelzie:
Even now, I would consider looking at a second body, if a brand new Canon was released in the $500 range. Even if it had a less features then the Digital Rebel. For instance, things like no 1600 ISO setting, a slower max shutter w/o flash speed, slower max shutter w/ flash, no Bulb, no Manual functions, just Aperture, Shutter, ADEP and the Automatic settings.
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Why dont you bye a compact or SLR like if you dont need any of the above? |
Because a DSLR has the ability to be fitted with various lenses to match various shooting requirements. That's why I wouldn't look at a compact.
As for a regular film SLR...
I have never had the patience to deal with film. I *need* to see my results very quickly. I *need* to be able to look at and toss out, (without printing) crappy shots.
I feel it is just wasteful to take a roll of film, shoot a mess of images, have that whole roll developed and discover that only 50% of my shots are worth keeping and that only 10 to 15% of the whole roll is really something I would be happy enough to display or possibly sell.
Digital is simply less wastefull in terms of developing chemicals, printing media/inks/what-not and materials then film photography is. If you take a bad shot with digital, all you have lost is time. If you take a bad shot with film, you have lost time, materials in developing and or money if you don't develop your own work.
Anyway, a lower-end DSLR missing the features I described would be more then adequette for most of the shots I take. It would be less of a hit to my pocketbook as a 'back-up' for the amatuer photography that I shoot and would fit in very nicely if I am able to learn enough to take some semi-professional portrait shots for people. Of course, if that happened I would be quickly ramping up my hardware as I obtained meaningful income from such work.
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08/04/2004 11:04:07 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
I'm waiting for an affordable Minolta DSLR which will have the IS mechanism incorporated into the body (SUCH a great idea!), and quality similar to a Rebel. I don't think I'm going to be waiting too long. Minolta lenses are pretty good and very underrated apparently.
Don't forget the new Pentax DSLR will be out soon as well, which will be competing on a price level with the Rebel. |
Thanks. I was looking at the current Pentax too. Do you have any information, even tentative, about a Minolta SLR release?
I've even considered the A2 as am intermediate measure to an SLR (wonderful feature set!), but again, it's the noise factor (and lens quality from what I've read) that stops me. All the current crop of prosumer, 8 MP cameras use that very noisy Sony sensor. The Canon Pro 1, which I would have bought in a second (based on size and it's L lens) if it had an 300D like CMOS sensor (even if only 6 MP). But it's noisy as hell above ISO 50.
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08/05/2004 03:39:51 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Do you have any information, even tentative, about a Minolta SLR release?
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Konica Minolta Dynax 7 Digital interview at dpreview.com
Earlier info (dpreview)
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08/05/2004 05:32:40 PM · #23 |
What lens was used? I see 'bokeh' like this from my cheap 70-300 G. The out of focus areas seem to be much cleaner when I use my kit lens. That looks to me like optics might have contributed to that, but I'm no expert.
Originally posted by EddyG:
Well I was quite surprised at how noisy this shot was:
which Mehmet said in this thread was taken at "iso 400 around f-stop 7 and 200 shutter speed". I would have expected the out-of-focus cement to be buttery smooth (but then again, I'm used to Canon CMOS)... |
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08/05/2004 05:40:41 PM · #24 |
Here is a good example between the D70 and the Rebel.
Click here
Rebel is clearly better.(for image quality that is)
Message edited by author 2004-08-05 17:41:47. |
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08/05/2004 05:49:14 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by Maverick:
What lens was used? I see 'bokeh' like this from my cheap 70-300 G. The out of focus areas seem to be much cleaner when I use my kit lens. That looks to me like optics might have contributed to that, but I'm no expert. |
I wasn't referring to the bokeh (the quality of the rendering of the out-of-focus elements), I was referring to the noise that is present throughout the entire image, both the in focus and out of focus areas. At ISO 400 on something like a 10D or Digital Rebel, I don't think that shot would have anywhere near that amount of noise.
Anybody else see what I'm talking about? =]
Message edited by author 2004-08-05 17:50:20. |
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