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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Everyone's antivirus s/w update?
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 07/26/2004 12:26:34 PM · #1
Heads Up,
I'm chasing my tail here at work trying to control the W/32Mydoom.O discovered this morning. Check your dats and definitions. gtg.

Andy
 07/26/2004 12:36:44 PM · #2
W32.Mydoom.M@mmis a mass-mailing worm that opens a backdoor and uses its own SMTP engine to spread through email.

The worm is packed using UPX.
Discovered on: July 26, 2004

yucky
 07/26/2004 12:40:41 PM · #3
Weirdly enough I updated mine this morning before I saw your post.

I have been getting SO many virus-loaded emails these past few weeks (Norton is catching them for me) that I thought I'd better make sure it was updated.

And I had forgotten that my LiveUpdate software is screwy so I have to manually download any new virus definitions from Norton's site.

I did a full scan after that and I'm clean...

Sorry to hear you're having a nightmare...
 07/26/2004 12:47:00 PM · #4
if your auto update for norton is not working properly it may be you are infected with something. my brother had a similar issue, and ran another AV app that picked up a virus - after that norton functioned properly.


07/26/2004 12:55:33 PM · #5
You mean you actually have to spend money to buy software to fix the problems introduced by poor coding in the software you already bought? Interesting. I've heard of these virus and worm things, but I've not actually seen one in the last 10 years. Welcome to Macintosh. ;-)
07/26/2004 12:56:02 PM · #6
No I am confident I'm not infected with anything but LiveUpdate has never worked on my PC.

I suspect it's incompatible with some program or other somewhere...

I have a lot on here as I'm an IT Trainer so need access to lots of things.

Downloading the virus definitions from their site works fine, the program does recognise the definitions and shows an accurate last update date and the scan with the new definitions picked up nothing anywhere on the PC.

SOUP that said, what AV did he find picked up the LiveUpdate infection that Norton didn't pick up?

It can't hurt to try it?

Message edited by author 2004-07-26 12:56:35.
 07/26/2004 01:06:01 PM · #7
Originally posted by scalvert:
You mean you actually have to spend money to buy software to fix the problems introduced by poor coding in the software you already bought? Interesting. I've heard of these virus and worm things, but I've not actually seen one in the last 10 years. Welcome to Macintosh. ;-)


The problem with Windows is two-fold. One, it's got the largest market share. Two, it is poorly designed from a security standpoint.

The Macintosh only has the small market share going for it. As I understand it, all users are considered 'root' on MacOSX. That's just as bad as MS with Windows XP. All it takes is one 'enterprising' virus writer to target MacOSX and BAM! same net effect.

As for the network I manage, I haven't seen a virus enter our network in over a year. The primary reason is outsourced AV/Spam scanning, not a single batch of email hits our server without being scrubbed of nasties first. The tertiary reason is we use no Windows Servers, just workstations which are isolated from the greater Internet and only have proxy access via our servers.

*edit for grammar*

Message edited by author 2004-07-26 13:07:36.
 07/26/2004 01:20:46 PM · #8
Just messin' with ya, Nelzie. Macs are often perceived as more expensive than PCs, but part of that expense is the included license to make fun of PC woes. Note that all users are not considered root users. In fact, the root user is turned off by default, as are proxy servers and most other weak spots. But I digress... now, where was I? Oh yes- NYAH-NYAH! ;-)
 07/26/2004 01:34:00 PM · #9
Originally posted by scalvert:
Just messin' with ya, Nelzie. Macs are often perceived as more expensive than PCs, but part of that expense is the included license to make fun of PC woes. Note that all users are not considered root users. In fact, the root user is turned off by default, as are proxy servers and most other weak spots. But I digress... now, where was I? Oh yes- NYAH-NYAH! ;-)


If you can install software, make system wide changes (Such as alter network settings, add/remove hardware) then you have 'root' level rights and are considered the 'root' user, even without your account login being called 'root'.

By default, all users on a Non-Domain Controlled install of Windows XP Pro have 'Admin/root' rights and all users on XP Home have 'Admin/root' rights. In both cases, those rights stick, unless taken away.

The last time I sat at a MacOSX system, it was the 'same' way. It doens't say 'root' or 'Administrator', but that is what your login is, unless you specifically alter that fact.

You may just be pulling my leg, but as far as I have seen with MacOSX, it's user-level security is very similar to Windows. It just has fewer core architectural problems that Windows has.

Personally, I prefer Linux on the desktop and I would use that exclusively if it wasn't for a few required applications only available on Windows/Macintosh Operating Systems. Out of the box most distributions have, not only a superior to Windows security architecture, but it also has a far superior user security system as well.
 07/26/2004 01:45:34 PM · #10
Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 Not coming out on the MAC, I won't be switching any time soon.
 07/26/2004 01:46:57 PM · #11
Not pulling your leg. The default is Admin rights, but not root. Enabling root user priveleges is an extra step that you have to go out of your way for (just try migrating an old OS X server to a new one without root access- darn near impossible). While you can alter many preference-type settings with admin access, critical system-level changes cannot be made with the default configuration.

Sorry to hijack this thread from others. We now return you to your viral crisis already in progress...

Message edited by author 2004-07-26 13:47:11.
 07/26/2004 01:55:28 PM · #12
it was Mcaffe that found the virus - and the problem was not exactly what you described. but a problem with upgrading the Norton AV from 2002 to 2004. once he tried to install the new version it didn't run properly, and wouldn't update.

i thought initially it was because he had just run a winXP upgrade and not installed it the longer - full way. what i found was that Norton 2002 was running as normal - until he tried the upgrade - i had him scan with Mcaffe - and it found a virus - which i assume had been tampering with Norton 2002 for awhile. Once removed the new Norton AV installed and ran normally. i Even had him check to make sure the registry keys It told him had been removed - actually had been, and that the poison files were all removed as well - then i had him properly install winXP.

Originally posted by Kavey:
SOUP that said, what AV did he find picked up the LiveUpdate infection that Norton didn't pick up?

It can't hurt to try it?

 07/26/2004 01:56:53 PM · #13
Originally posted by scalvert:
Not pulling your leg. The default is Admin rights, but not root. Enabling root user priveleges is an extra step that you have to go out of your way for (just try migrating an old OS X server to a new one without root access- darn near impossible). While you can alter many preference-type settings with admin access, critical system-level changes cannot be made with the default configuration.

Sorry to hijack this thread from others. We now return you to your viral crisis already in progress...


LOL, I been using Macs for 13 years now, never had antivirus software, never had a problem until I installed Norton to "protect" my Mac, it was worse than any virus, lost everything on my Hard drive. Now I stay away from any "anti-virus" or system "tweakers". Zero problem for 5 years now. :)
 07/26/2004 01:58:33 PM · #14
you on dial up?>


07/26/2004 02:00:57 PM · #15
I hear ya Nick! I gave up on Norton many years ago, and haven't had anti-virus software installed since about 1996. I ran Virex on a few workstations last year to appease a paranoid co-worker, but it didn't find anything. Regarding system software- I swear by DiskWarrior. It's my first line of defense against system problems.
 07/26/2004 02:01:48 PM · #16
thanks for the heads up. I hear on the radio this morning of a virus being spreas on the USENET news groups (SP?) that was pretty nasty.

also I get a lot of Mail Delivery (failure xxx@xxx-xxx.com) emails as the subject (xxx replaces my email address, I try to keep them guarded as much as possible)

the body of the message is this:

If the message will not displayed automatically,
follow the link to read the delivered message.

Received message is available at:
www.blah-blah.com/inbox/james/read.php ? sessionid - 15895

I added some spaces and the blah- blah replaces other text as well.

James
07/26/2004 02:29:15 PM · #17
Originally posted by scalvert:
Just messin' with ya, Nelzie. Macs are often perceived as more expensive than PCs, but part of that expense is the included license to make fun of PC woes. Note that all users are not considered root users. In fact, the root user is turned off by default, as are proxy servers and most other weak spots. But I digress... now, where was I? Oh yes- NYAH-NYAH! ;-)


Urm, you do realise that Unix, and by extension OS X were pretty much designed to not be secure, don't you ?

Unix security is almost more of a nasty hack than the mess windows is in. All the Mac has going for it in terms of virus protection is lack of interest/ motivation. There aren't enough of them to bother with, particularly outside of the US.

Message edited by author 2004-07-26 14:30:08.
 07/26/2004 02:33:14 PM · #18
I'll take the end result, no matter the reason. ;-)
 07/26/2004 02:37:44 PM · #19
Originally posted by scalvert:
I'll take the end result, no matter the reason. ;-)
Think is, the switch to unix(BSD) actually appears to be increasing the number of workable Mac exploits - so you'll be catching up with the windows users in another area now too!
 07/26/2004 02:40:33 PM · #20
Originally posted by Nelzie:
The Macintosh only has the small market share going for it. As I understand it, all users are considered 'root' on MacOSX. That's just as bad as MS with Windows XP. All it takes is one 'enterprising' virus writer to target MacOSX and BAM! same net effect.


The Mac may have a smaller installed base than Windows but that's moot. And you do not login as root by default at least not with 10.2.8 (Jaguar). You need to manually create a root user account or use terminal to perform tasks as root. Your user account is an admin account and that's fine for most people unless you want to make a separate account for admin and users.
 07/26/2004 03:04:22 PM · #21
Originally posted by scalvert:
You mean you actually have to spend money to buy software to fix the problems introduced by poor coding in the software you already bought? Interesting. I've heard of these virus and worm things, but I've not actually seen one in the last 10 years. Welcome to Macintosh. ;-)


I read somewhere though that even if Macs are not infected by the e-mail attachments, you are still liable to spread the infections (actually this is in the Norton SystemWorks package). How true is that, I am not sure. But I am taking their word as I had a slew of e-mails containing attachments recently. I've installed Norton on my Macs and it does detect PC viruses/worms attached to e-mails and disables them. Quite cool actually.
 07/26/2004 03:04:52 PM · #22
Originally posted by MrAkamai:

The Mac may have a smaller installed base than Windows but that's moot. And you do not login as root by default at least not with 10.2.8 (Jaguar). You need to manually create a root user account or use terminal to perform tasks as root. Your user account is an admin account and that's fine for most people unless you want to make a separate account for admin and users.


Windows XP Home/Pro is exactly the same way with User Accounts. Everyone isn't 'root' (Administrator), but they all have 'Admin' flags. You can 'activate' a seperate 'root' (Administrator) account, but it's not necesary. It's only different with XP Pro, when connected to a Domain Controller.

With 'Admin' rights you are tossing our the extra security that is provided by having seperate and 'not equal' user accounts. A user should never have the ability to install applications, make general systems changes, such as Network adapters and the like. At the most non-admin users should ONLY be able to read/write their home directories (My Documents or Profile directory) and have Read Only access to the various program directories. This protects the system and other users from 'dumb users' and we all are 'dumb users' (yes, even I am a dumb user at times).

All it takes is one biff and then it's done. That's why you need those seperate accounts with various levels of rights.

MacOSX is almost there in that respect and because a wise user can lock it down further, it scores big time in my book. Beyond that, it's not, from a user security perspective, all that much better then Windows.
07/26/2004 03:15:25 PM · #23
Originally posted by Nelzie:
MacOSX is almost there in that respect and because a wise user can lock it down further, it scores big time in my book. Beyond that, it's not, from a user security perspective, all that much better then Windows.


That's the main security hole right there - most users are the biggest threat to their own computer security. ooohh, shiney button, clicky, clicky. I've had 3 emails with the mydoom virus arrive in my inbox today. I managed to not run any of the 3. Simplest virus protection you can have. About 10 minutes later Norton had updated enough to spot it in my inbox and warn me about it...

Message edited by author 2004-07-26 15:25:47.
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