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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Suggestions >> A "No Edit" Challenge
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Showing posts 26 - 49 of 49, (reverse)
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 07/17/2004 10:58:04 AM · #26
My preferred camera (Kodak/Nikon DCS460) shoots only raw with no other option.
Acquisition of the raw image does afford considerable latitude to alter exposure, white balance, noise reduction, sharpening, color adjustments, etc.
In short, the users that shoot raw will have an advantage over those that produce jpeg. Not a level playing field.
 07/17/2004 11:23:36 AM · #27
Originally posted by ElGordo:
In short, the users that shoot raw will have an advantage over those that produce jpeg. Not a level playing field.

The challenge rules would preclude the use of such adjustments in order to "level" the playing field. You would have to use the default ("As Shot") values of the raw converter, so you'd have to get everything right "in camera", instead of relying on adjustments in the raw converter -- which is the point of this proposal.

Message edited by author 2004-07-17 11:25:00.
 07/17/2004 11:32:41 AM · #28
BTW, the 10D does capture a JPG with the RAW file. You have to use the Canon file utility to extract it. You can embed a small, medium or large jpeg with the RAW file. You can't take just a RAW image.


07/17/2004 11:50:01 AM · #29
Talking about RAW, I just wanned to share this link.
//www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/u-raw-files.shtml.

Message edited by ClubJuggle - Fixed link.
 07/17/2004 01:22:31 PM · #30
I think it would be interesting to have a challenge like this but would like a to see 90-degree rotation added to the allowed editing along with resizeing and conversion to JPEG. It would probably show the relative levels of talent more accurately if it were a themed challenge instead of a free study.
 07/17/2004 01:29:14 PM · #31
Again, we have had a challenge like this. I thought there were some nice pictures in it.
 07/17/2004 05:07:33 PM · #32
it should be called the "1 hour photo lab", because that's what it would be like with no editing.
 07/17/2004 05:23:01 PM · #33
Why are all of the DSLR users crying that they want to shoot RAW images for a no edit challenge? Can't they just shoot in JPG for this one itty bitty challenge? This is a "straight from the camera" challenge so shooting in RAW would be cheating, wouldn't it? Why should we allow DSLR users to adjust exposure and white balance AFTER the shot when the rest of us can't and must do it before pressing the shutter? If there are any non-DSLR cameras that can shoot RAW, forgive me.

Other than that, can't we all just shoot JPG and make the rule "no shooting in RAW/tiff/or other non JPG files." People are actually making this harder than it is. Shoot in JPG so everyone's chances are slightly evened.
 07/17/2004 05:38:01 PM · #34
You're assuming that we have no desire to use our images for anything beyond the challenges. I rarely shoot "just for" a challenge. At the very least, I'll probably want to offer my entry as a print. While the editing for the challenge would be restricted, I can do whatever I want to my printable version. Why should I have to limit myself in that regard by shooting JPEG?

-Terry
 07/17/2004 06:25:48 PM · #35
Originally posted by nborton:
it should be called the "1 hour photo lab", because that's what it would be like with no editing.


I think shoting a Good picture without editing needs more than an hour. it has to planned and shot at the righ placet and specially at the right time.

Karma: I was browsing the past challenge and is kool but have nothing to do with this, the rules in that challenge were very limited and the contest was about on recreating the past.
 07/17/2004 06:39:08 PM · #36
To set it straight:

1) Shoot whatever format you like
2) RAW is NOT "cheating". RAW-format files have to be "As Shot" settings (tho some converters like PS/CS have a "camera default" which I guess could be accepted in the no-edit rule). I shoot nothing but RAW precisely for the reasons ClubJuggle mentioned.
3) resizing, cropping and rotation would be your only editing options
4) if your camera has b/w, sepia, other settings... use them if you like. DSLR users can set their in-camera settings as they like (sharpness, color, tone, etc)
5) the 10D does in fact capture a JPG - there's no way around it

does that cover it all?
 07/17/2004 07:20:02 PM · #37
Ya beat me to it animes2k

1) Shoot whatever format you like Yep.
t2) RAW is NOT "cheating". RAW-format files have to be "As Shot" settings (tho some converters like PS/CS have a "camera default" which I guess could be accepted in the no-edit rule). I shoot nothing but RAW precisely for the reasons ClubJuggle mentioned.
ext My inexperence shows here, from what I have gathered that would mean due to the nature of RAW it would be impossible to set things like white balance without doing post shot editing of the RAW image? Or would they be settings for when the conversion to jpg is done? A subtle but very different thing.
3) resizing, cropping and rotation would be your only editing options
Only other thing is Format conversion must be allowed and rotation restricted to a 90deg rotation no in betweens.
4) if your camera has b/w, sepia, other settings... use them if you like. DSLR users can set their in-camera settings as they like (sharpness, color, tone, etc)
Yep that sounds right!

If this did go ahead maybe there could/should be some allowance for post shot settings permitted for people who shoot in RAW for when the photo is to be converted to jpg such as white balance! Do you think that would be fair or what would you recommend?

Bob
 07/17/2004 07:48:43 PM · #38
Originally posted by animes2k:
3) resizing, cropping and rotation would be your only editing options

What would people think of not allowing cropping?
 07/17/2004 09:18:07 PM · #39
Originally posted by Zoomdak:
Originally posted by animes2k:
3) resizing, cropping and rotation would be your only editing options

What would people think of not allowing cropping?


I think if we were going to do this, then certainly cropping shouldn't be allowed - one of the best skills you can learn is to shoot 'full frame' in camera and not depend on cropping to get a good final shot - increases your opportunities for big prints (within the limitations of aspect ratios) If we are going for a dumbed down, no edit challenge, with the assumption that it is to encourage 'getting it right in camera' whatever that really means, then this would actually have some merit if cropping wasn't allowed.
 07/17/2004 09:19:26 PM · #40
Originally posted by Gurilla:
Ya beat me to it animes2k
If this did go ahead maybe there could/should be some allowance for post shot settings permitted for people who shoot in RAW for when the photo is to be converted to jpg such as white balance! Do you think that would be fair or what would you recommend?


RAW doesn't mean that there's not a white balance setting to the image when it's taken, quite the contrary. There IS a white balance setting when you take the shot, straight out of the camera.

It just allows you to easily CHANGE the white balance by sliding a bar back and forth (and/or choosing a different setting from a drop-down menu, typically a setting that reflects in-camera options such as "Daylight" or "Tungsten").
07/17/2004 10:25:56 PM · #41
A "No Edit" Challenge would allow any settings and/or adjustments that you can do to your camera before you take the shot. After taking the shot the only editing allowed would be:

1)resizing to meet regular dpc limits
2)one 90-degree rotation, right or left
3)conversion to JPEG with no adjustments of any kind during conversion

Should be an Open challenge to allow maximum participation by the less experienced users; and should be a themed challenge, not a free study and not a technique type challenge.

I sense that many of our more skilled users don't care for this idea too much, and I suspect the users that don't like the really big challenges wouldn't be too happy either, but I think most of our less experienced users would like it very much. It wouldn't hurt to cater to their likes for one challenge.
 07/17/2004 10:27:18 PM · #42
Originally posted by Gordon:
I think if we were going to do this, then certainly cropping shouldn't be allowed - one of the best skills you can learn is to shoot 'full frame' in camera and not depend on cropping to get a good final shot - increases your opportunities for big prints (within the limitations of aspect ratios) If we are going for a dumbed down, no edit challenge, with the assumption that it is to encourage 'getting it right in camera' whatever that really means, then this would actually have some merit if cropping wasn't allowed.


Yeah Gordon that was my original thought! I'd go along with that.
Bob
 07/18/2004 07:01:10 AM · #43
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
You're assuming that we have no desire to use our images for anything beyond the challenges. I rarely shoot "just for" a challenge. At the very least, I'll probably want to offer my entry as a print. While the editing for the challenge would be restricted, I can do whatever I want to my printable version. Why should I have to limit myself in that regard by shooting JPEG?

-Terry

I find it ironic how you want to offer a print that has been edited for an image themed for a "no edit" challenge. Almost seems like shoehorning your submission into a challenge because you shot it and somehow made it fit while your intentions weren't specifically taken for the DPC entry.

Kind of defeats the purpose of submitting the non-edited version if your intents were to profit or print off the edited image. You could always bracket and do 1 shoot in RAW and 1 in JPG, no matter how redundant that may be. At least it would give me peace of mind that everyone's white balance and exposure were set before the image was fired. I do not have the option (RAW data) nor have access to that priveleged level of editing. I am forced to compose my lighting beforehand and think it only fair if everyone else did the same.. at least for this challenge.
 07/18/2004 07:41:41 AM · #44
Originally posted by Bran-O-Rama:
If there are any non-DSLR cameras that can shoot RAW, forgive me.


Fujifilm S602, S5000 and S7000 are all non-DSLR and are capable of shooting in CCD-RAW with no imbedded JPG.
 07/18/2004 07:44:31 AM · #45
Originally posted by procyon:
Originally posted by Bran-O-Rama:
If there are any non-DSLR cameras that can shoot RAW, forgive me.


Fujifilm S602, S5000 and S7000 are all non-DSLR and are capable of shooting in CCD-RAW with no imbedded JPG.


Canon Powershot G series (no embedded JPG)
 07/18/2004 07:46:52 AM · #46
Minolta diMAGE 5/7/7i

-Terry
 07/18/2004 07:46:57 AM · #47
Originally posted by cpanaioti:


Canon Powershot G series (no embedded JPG)


Must have changed it recently then - the powershot G2 that I had shot RAW, always with an embedded JPEG.
 07/18/2004 07:50:22 AM · #48
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:


Canon Powershot G series (no embedded JPG)


Must have changed it recently then - the powershot G2 that I had shot RAW, always with an embedded JPEG.


Must be an undocumented feature. I stand corrected. I'll have to check my G3 RAW files to see if they have an embedded JPEG (no, not on G3, at least not by default).

Message edited by author 2004-07-18 07:54:24.
 07/20/2004 06:39:44 AM · #49
Fantastic idea bob , that sounds like my competition, good on ya mate
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