Canon SLR: indoor flash usage - DPChallenge Forums

07/11/2004 11:55:09 AM · #1

Just a general survey - for folk that are using a speedlite indoors, for events like weddings - what settings do you use on the camera ?

Any particular shooting mode

Do you use auto fill flash reduction

Do you use FEL and/or FEC

I recently shot an event, and I normally use Av mode but as this is exposing for the ambient conditions - I have a lot of blurry shots.

How do you deal with this ?

Message edited by author 2004-07-11 11:58:15.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/11/2004 03:59:20 PM · #2

Anyone do event/ indoor photography with Canon equipment ? :)

Natator

Canon EOS-5D

07/11/2004 06:09:49 PM · #3

I just shot my first weeding on the weekend. It was the first time I really wish I had had the 500 flash and not the 420, as I needed the extra power.

Interestingly, I also found the recharge time for the flash on my rechargable batteries was FAR better than when they ran out and I swapped to a bought pack of EverReady Max .... not using those again I can tell you! (I'll tyr Duracel next time and see if they are better).

As for your questions Gordon .....

Errr, I just pointed and shot heaps *laugh* So I'd like to see the answers to your questions there as much as you do :)

GoldBerry

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

07/11/2004 06:36:14 PM · #4

Originally posted by Natator:

Invest in a Quantum battery pack. You can get one used for around $300CND..they power cameras, flashes, or both depending on the pack you buy. Never leave home without it :-) [I happen to have one for sale as I'm upgrading my cam,flash and pack].

For the indoor parts of weddings when I have to use a flash, I use the 550EX on manual adjusting shutter and aperture depending on test shots taken at that moment...loooove digital.

audioaltima

Canon EOS-10D

07/11/2004 06:48:27 PM · #5

I guess it depends on the setting. Most of what I've done so far has been in areas with low ceilings so I generally stick on my 550ex (pointed up) and shoot in manual mode. I'll pick the shutter as the min I can get away with depending on the focal length (plus a bit sometimes to be safe), and the aperture for the depth I'm looking for. It's worked well thus far for my work.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/12/2004 10:41:39 AM · #6

Originally posted by audioaltima:

I think the mistake I made was shooting Av (aperture priority). You end up dragging the shutter on every shot, so quite a bit of motion blur on most of the shots. I'll experiment with manual mode a bit and see how it goes. Thanks!

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

07/12/2004 10:44:13 AM · #7

Originally posted by Gordon:

I'll experiment with manual mode a bit and see how it goes. Thanks!

Be sure to let us know!

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

07/12/2004 11:15:22 AM · #8

Originally posted by Gordon:

Usually I shoot in M mode.

I figure out the ambient exposure and try to get the shutter speed to at least 1/15 or 1/30. You have to tailor it to the look you are going for, but you can probably underexpose the BG by about a stop and still have reasonable results.

Then I set the flash to underexpose by about a stop. (I find this seems to keep the flash from having that overpowering, "Hey, I used flash, can't you tell" look).

Also helps if you use a flash bracket to get the flash up high and further away from the lens axis.

If you are shooting color, it helps to color balance the flash to the ambient light unless you like that amber background cast. I just tape a small piece of Rosco Full Sun gel over the flash and then set a custom WB or shoot on tungsten. If you don't color balance, you will either have a neutral subject and an amber background or a neutral background and a blue subject. If you want to spend a LOT of time in PS, I suppose this could be fixed, but it's a lot easier to do beforehand.

Message edited by author 2004-07-12 11:16:59.

07/12/2004 12:02:12 PM · #9

Thank you - sounds like good advice.

I certainly noticed a lot of colour balance issues too - partly because the venue had a lot of natural light, mixed with indoor lighting and also the flash. Not sure that gels would help much there really - give that the flash is pretty much already balanced with outdoor light - right ?

But it would certainly help with the indoor conditions. I think I'll handle some of the weirder light clashes by converting to B&W.

Do you have the auto fill flash reduction enabled, or disabled ?

07/12/2004 12:18:18 PM · #10

Gordon,

MANUAL exposure mode. The speedlite will compensate for it you can then set your aperature/etc. separately. Av mode is used for fill flash.

Eitehr that or use P mode, but Pmode defaults to 1/60 seconds which might be too slow for zooms.

Originally posted by Gordon:

07/12/2004 12:20:11 PM · #11

Also, get a flash bracket so that your flash is directional (left or right) - so that you won't get a lot of shadows cast by the people you're shooting. Omnibounce also works great.

FEL is pretty required to get consistent exposure. I don't trust the ETTL's method by default. Either that, or you can turn the lens to manual focus (forcing the metering to be using center weighted). I have my fel at the back side of the camera.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

07/12/2004 12:21:57 PM · #12

U don't need to compensate the flash if you have a lumiquest softbox on the flash, works very well.

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Gordon:
Just a general survey - for folk that are using a speedlite indoors, for events like weddings - what settings do you use on the camera ?

Any particular shooting mode

Do you use auto fill flash reduction

Do you use FEL and/or FEC

I recently shot an event, and I normally use Av mode but as this is exposing for the ambient conditions - I have a lot of blurry shots.

How do you deal with this ?

Usually I shoot in M mode.

I figure out the ambient exposure and try to get the shutter speed to at least 1/15 or 1/30. You have to tailor it to the look you are going for, but you can probably underexpose the BG by about a stop and still have reasonable results.

Then I set the flash to underexpose by about a stop. (I find this seems to keep the flash from having that overpowering, "Hey, I used flash, can't you tell" look).

Also helps if you use a flash bracket to get the flash up high and further away from the lens axis.

If you are shooting color, it helps to color balance the flash to the ambient light unless you like that amber background cast. I just tape a small piece of Rosco Full Sun gel over the flash and then set a custom WB or shoot on tungsten. If you don't color balance, you will either have a neutral subject and an amber background or a neutral background and a blue subject. If you want to spend a LOT of time in PS, I suppose this could be fixed, but it's a lot easier to do beforehand.

Sonifo

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

07/12/2004 12:24:15 PM · #13

Gordon, I just bought this //www.lumiquest.com/lq931.htm I wonder if this would work for you. It cost me $70.00.

I haven't really messed with my setting yet for indoor shots.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

07/12/2004 12:26:24 PM · #14

Originally posted by Gordon:

Typically you would balance the flash with the predominant light source, but if you already have a mix and putting blue gels over all the room lights is usually out of the question, you might try a compromise, say something like a Half Sun gel and using a custom WB.

I have a slight warming gel, 1/4 Sun, over my flash for shooting outdoors, it seems to help warm up the skintones and since the flash is usually just a bit cooler than sunlight, it helps there too.

I'm not sure what I have the Auto_Fill Reduction set to, I'll have to check. I would imagine that I have it turned off.

07/12/2004 12:30:00 PM · #15

Autofill reduction is only for Av mode, if it's for manual mode it's not used.

EddyG

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

07/12/2004 12:36:38 PM · #16

Originally posted by paganini:

FEL is pretty required to get consistent exposure. I don't trust the ETTL's method by default. Either that, or you can turn the lens to manual focus (forcing the metering to be using center weighted).

This is one advantage of moving "Auto Focus" to the * key on the back of the camera. You depress it to focus, and then if you let go before you depress the shutter button, the E-TTL metering algorithms won't be weighted around the active focusing point (because there isn't one, since you took your finger off the AF button). I discussed this in more detail in this thread.

(Like others have said in this thread, I'm almost always in manual when shooting with a flash indoors, usually dragging the shutter like Dan said at around 1/15th or 1/30th if it is fairly dim.)

07/12/2004 02:47:39 PM · #17

Originally posted by paganini:

Autofill reduction is only for Av mode, if it's for manual mode it's not used.

Hmm - I thought the distinction between 'fill flash mode' and 'normal flash mode' was just the ambient light level (13 EV or higher is fill flash mode)

I don't believe this changes depending on the exposure mode you use though. The difference (and problem I was having) with Av mode, is that the (non-flash) exposure is all for the ambient light-level, ignoring the flash completely.

I guess another option is to use Av mode, with the custom function set to limit shutter speed to 1/200s in Av mode. Sort of like a P mode, without the 1/60s limitation for longer lenses.

07/12/2004 04:55:07 PM · #18

There is no difference using it with or without it on for M or P mode, you can try it out, easy to see.

If you set sync to 1/200 for Av mode, then in effect, it's in manual mode. (i.e. the speed is lock at 1/200 second and you set the aperature where you want, then the flash will increase power for the right exposure with FEL or focus point, but background will be pretty dark).

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by paganini:
Autofill reduction is only for Av mode, if it's for manual mode it's not used.

Hmm - I thought the distinction between 'fill flash mode' and 'normal flash mode' was just the ambient light level (13 EV or higher is fill flash mode)

I don't believe this changes depending on the exposure mode you use though. The difference (and problem I was having) with Av mode, is that the (non-flash) exposure is all for the ambient light-level, ignoring the flash completely.

I guess another option is to use Av mode, with the custom function set to limit shutter speed to 1/200s in Av mode. Sort of like a P mode, without the 1/60s limitation for longer lenses.

07/12/2004 04:56:49 PM · #19

I don't think this is true -- maybe for the 1D mark II with ETTL II, but i think by default the metering is done on teh selected focus point (whether you have it pressed or not doesn't matter). This is why 10D's focus isn't accurate without FEL, and with 1D it's using a completely different method.

Originally posted by EddyG:

Originally posted by paganini:
FEL is pretty required to get consistent exposure. I don't trust the ETTL's method by default. Either that, or you can turn the lens to manual focus (forcing the metering to be using center weighted).

This is one advantage of moving "Auto Focus" to the * key on the back of the camera. You depress it to focus, and then if you let go before you depress the shutter button, the E-TTL metering algorithms won't be weighted around the active focusing point (because there isn't one, since you took your finger off the AF button). I discussed this in more detail in this thread.

(Like others have said in this thread, I'm almost always in manual when shooting with a flash indoors, usually dragging the shutter like Dan said at around 1/15th or 1/30th if it is fairly dim.)

EddyG

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

07/12/2004 05:03:29 PM · #20

Tony: I wrote that post back when I had the 10D, so using that "trick" does work for the 10D. (For reference, see this post by Chuck Westfall). I haven't tried to determine how using this "trick" affects the 1D Mark II yet. =]

Message edited by author 2004-07-12 17:18:07.