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06/07/2004 01:37:36 PM · #1 |
GM - 3 bil in China
How about Rockford Il or Gary Indiana ?
Some of our cities are falling in third world shape while blue chips are taking the money away !
Sad... |
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06/07/2004 02:00:56 PM · #2 |
What are you talking about ? Did you even bother to read the article ?
A (US) company invests in China, to make cars in China, employing local workers, to sell in the Chinese market. What's the problem ?
Even from your own article
For a giant like GM, the China investment is not huge. The company is spending $1.1 billion on its new factory in Delta Township, Mich. It spent $7.2 billion on buying from minority suppliers in 2003, according to its Web site.
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06/07/2004 03:56:31 PM · #3 |
What happens when the "bottom line" dictates that they start importing those Chinese vehicles at $2500 less than the ones made in Michigan?
If "shareholder's best interest" is the only factor being considered (as seems to be the current case in Corporate America) in corporate decision-making, then I'd say it's only a matter of time, regardless of current(ly disclosed) plans. |
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06/07/2004 05:56:43 PM · #4 |
Whats the sole goal of any company or corporation?
Thats right, to make money... GM, Microsoft or little jonnies t-shirts are not beholdent to America to keep their jobs here if they can make more money else where.
Would I prefer it if American Companies kept all the jobs here? Hell ya. I'd also support measures that gave benifits to those who did. But I'm also not willing to bash someone or a company in general because they are seeking more money...
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06/07/2004 07:25:14 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Russell2566:
Whats the sole goal of any company or corporation?
Thats right, to make money... GM, Microsoft or little jonnies t-shirts are not beholdent to America to keep their jobs here if they can make more money else where.
Would I prefer it if American Companies kept all the jobs here? Hell ya. I'd also support measures that gave benifits to those who did. But I'm also not willing to bash someone or a company in general because they are seeking more money... |
Well said. I go to work to make money. Not to make other people happy. When US companies stop trying to make money, they will go out of buisness and we'll all be working at Taco Bell.
A co-worker just got back form a trip to south korea. They have a 20year plan to become the business center of the world there. Guess how they are doing it? While we out source to south korea because of cheap labor, they out source our work to north korea and the soviet countries which we are afraid to do business with, but have even cheaper labor.
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06/07/2004 07:53:38 PM · #6 |
And which ones of these companies pays the floor sweeper 30 dollars an hour?
Originally posted by louddog:
Originally posted by Russell2566:
Whats the sole goal of any company or corporation?
Thats right, to make money... GM, Microsoft or little jonnies t-shirts are not beholdent to America to keep their jobs here if they can make more money else where.
Would I prefer it if American Companies kept all the jobs here? Hell ya. I'd also support measures that gave benifits to those who did. But I'm also not willing to bash someone or a company in general because they are seeking more money... |
Well said. I go to work to make money. Not to make other people happy. When US companies stop trying to make money, they will go out of buisness and we'll all be working at Taco Bell.
A co-worker just got back form a trip to south korea. They have a 20year plan to become the business center of the world there. Guess how they are doing it? While we out source to south korea because of cheap labor, they out source our work to north korea and the soviet countries which we are afraid to do business with, but have even cheaper labor. |
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06/07/2004 08:43:11 PM · #7 |
| That would be GM because the Union thinks that's what it takes to do the job. |
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06/07/2004 09:01:52 PM · #8 |
| MOT closed 4 N.American plants after Invested 26 Billions in China... |
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06/07/2004 09:04:09 PM · #9 |
Cheap workers, low allmost no taxes, verry cheap work locations, are all there is to it. I can tell you this, becouse I live in one of those counries your jobs are moving to. I doubt an american would work an entire month for 200$. I know plenty Romanians that are happy too.
Pitsaman if you look at your Macedonian side, I guess you know this already :) Maybe it's a good time to go home :D
Message edited by author 2004-06-07 21:11:05. |
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06/07/2004 09:19:38 PM · #10 |
You have to remember that in the end it's just leading to balancing out the world's wealth. Workers over seas will demend more money with time, people here will work for less: globalization, I think it's a good thing. The more equal the oportunities world wide the fewer the reasons for violence, war; isn't that a win-win situation?
Message edited by author 2004-06-07 21:19:57. |
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06/07/2004 09:39:14 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by dimitrii:
You have to remember that in the end it's just leading to balancing out the world's wealth. Workers over seas will demend more money with time, people here will work for less: globalization, I think it's a good thing. The more equal the oportunities world wide the fewer the reasons for violence, war; isn't that a win-win situation? |
I agree 100%, I think these are some post-coldwar effects that are going to pass in time as soon as economies in countries like mine are getting stronger. It's getting there slow but atleast the way is good, I can't even think back on how my country looked like 10 years ago. Probably it will be another 10 years maybe more, I'm not sure but sooner or later there are going to be equal oportunities for evryone in the free world, and at the end that counts more than everything.
You have to remember that when the cold war ended the whole world changed and lots of countries found themselves capitalist over night. Capitalism is built on one thing, money, as poor as we are today we are also cheap, but I know from experience, the more money you make the more you want, and as our economy is getting better and better, they would have to pay for work more and more, the less reason will be for all this and things will seattle. Look at Portugal or Spain for instance, 10 years ago Portugal whas poor, cheap labor, and all that, right now people from where I live are migrating to work in portugal for good money.
Message edited by author 2004-06-07 21:46:14. |
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06/07/2004 09:54:22 PM · #12 |
Hi, my name is Steve, and I work for a company that...(gasp)...makes money. And, to make me even more evil, I...I hesitate to say it, ...I get paid to work there.
I hear lots of people cry "foul" when companies take their jobs overseas, or when they outsource across the border. But, I don't ever hear any of those people propose a solution. So, lets have it. Let's hear solutions from those of you who think companies are greedy, money-hungry organizations. I don't want to hear from anyone that the Government should change, or something, because you have blamed the companies here, so I want to hear how you think the companies should change. Should they be happy with less money? That means less growth, less jobs overall, and inability to compete. Should they keep their jobs in America and pay their workers less? No, the same people who get mad that jobs go overseas are the people who created unions to make sure that many people get paid far more than the appropriate market price of labor. So, what's it gonna be?
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06/07/2004 09:58:30 PM · #13 |
solution?
sterilize 2/3 the entire world population, starting with americans. |
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06/07/2004 10:01:36 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
solution?
sterilize 2/3 the entire world population, starting with americans. |
LOL yea that would be a solution, I wanned to say, clone Hitler (for a same effect) but your solution seems more civilized than mine :D |
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06/07/2004 10:15:11 PM · #15 |
What a disgusting statement!
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
LOL yea that would be a solution, I wanned to say, clone Hitler (for a same effect) but your solution seems more civilized than mine :D |
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06/07/2004 10:18:19 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
What a disgusting statement!
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
LOL yea that would be a solution, I wanned to say, clone Hitler (for a same effect) but your solution seems more civilized than mine :D |
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I guess if you take it as a statement, but it whas a joke, ever heard of "black humour"?... nevermind. |
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06/07/2004 10:19:07 PM · #17 |
What are you basing your statement on about "more than the appropriate market price of labor?" How do you know that the corporations in American who have to pay union labor pay more than the appropriate market price of labor? What is "appropriate" based on?
Originally posted by StevePax:
No, the same people who get mad that jobs go overseas are the people who created unions to make sure that many people get paid far more than the appropriate market price of labor. So, what's it gonna be? |
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06/07/2004 10:24:29 PM · #18 |
| sweeping the floor is not worth 30 bucks with benefits in any part of the world |
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06/07/2004 10:30:34 PM · #19 |
I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. . . . Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money-power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.
Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865), quoted in Jack London's "The Iron Heel"
===========================
Haas School of Business
University of California, Berkeley
Mission Statement
Our goal is to graduate students with the skills to make the most of the economic opportunities available in our country and our world--and the values to share what they create. (emphasis added) |
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06/07/2004 10:43:23 PM · #20 |
Where do janitors get $30/hr with bennies? The janitors I know get paid much less and work with harsh irritating and sometimes dangerous chemicals. They have hard jobs and many have to moonlight to make ends meet.
Originally posted by David Ey:
sweeping the floor is not worth 30 bucks with benefits in any part of the world |
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06/07/2004 10:50:03 PM · #21 |
I think the real problem has less to do with the workers making out so well than with the executives, who make millions of dollars as a salry, not including stock options and other benefits, and leave their companies and employees bankrupt. Because part of their pay is in stock, their first allegience is to the stock holders.
The companies will do most anything to get the stock price up, such as shady accounting practices, breaking unions, flaunting local anti-pollution laws, and go to other areas of the world where they have no laws to contend with, pollute at will, pay a pittance in salry with no health benefits to these unfortunate poor people who work for them and get all kinds of tax breaks on top of it all.
These big companies that perpetrate these business policies and actions also pay out big money to politicians to push through laws that they want passed and in general corrupt the democratic process in the US. |
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06/07/2004 11:01:37 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Where do janitors get $30/hr with bennies? The janitors I know get paid much less and work with harsh irritating and sometimes dangerous chemicals. They have hard jobs and many have to moonlight to make ends meet.
Originally posted by David Ey:
sweeping the floor is not worth 30 bucks with benefits in any part of the world |
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They do the same here for only 30$ / month probably a bit more but not much more. I'm sorry I may be an ex communist and not know, but isn't capitalism built on competition? Free from goverment involvment and everything you say, I think we just have a better competitive offer for your companies. And as for executives making millions, that is theyr right, and if you think it is not then you are probably more communist than I am. Read Marx if you wanna know what I'm talking about, he shares the same thoughts with you, the socialist utopia where nobody is rich or poor and we are all the same.
P.S. keep in mind that even Marx himself couldn't keep to his theories, he whas known to be verry rich and addicted to foolishly spending money.
Message edited by author 2004-06-07 23:04:29. |
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06/07/2004 11:11:07 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
These big companies that perpetrate these business policies and actions also pay out big money to politicians to push through laws that they want passed and in general corrupt the democratic process in the US. |
I'm curious, do you have an equal problem with the Extreme left special interests groups that get laws passed in the exact same manor? i.e. over bearing or stupid enviroment laws, gun laws, ineffective punishments or related laws, life style related issues...
It's pretty hypocritical of you to not take take equal issue with both isn't it, or is it OK, because you aggree with their adgenda?
Message edited by author 2004-06-07 23:13:03. |
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06/07/2004 11:11:25 PM · #24 |
Yes, capitalism is built on competition, but the big companies which are getting bigger and bigger, are doing it because they somehow eliminate the competition and form oligopolies and monopolies, which are free then to charge whatever they want. These companies are far from being free from govt intervention. They pay alot of money to politicians to help pass laws for their benefit and to deregulate and privatize some industries. They also get huge tax breaks. Capitalism is built on competition of local markets, but what we have today is multinational companies controlling most of the markets and eliminating competition. Democratic governments are more beholden to these companies than the people of their respective countries because through corporation moneies that they are paying out to politicians, they are getting elected and re-elected. Far from democracy or true captialism. There is a tremendous amount of corruption now both in business and in government.
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Where do janitors get $30/hr with bennies? The janitors I know get paid much less and work with harsh irritating and sometimes dangerous chemicals. They have hard jobs and many have to moonlight to make ends meet.
Originally posted by David Ey:
sweeping the floor is not worth 30 bucks with benefits in any part of the world |
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They do the same here for only 30$ / month probably a bit more but not much more. I'm sorry I may be an ex communist and not know, but isn't capitalism built on competition? Free from goverment involvment and everything you say, I think we just have a better competitive offer for your companies. And as for executives making millions, that is theyr right, and if you think it is not then you are probably more communist than I am. Read Marx if you wanna know what I'm talking about, he shares the same thoughts with you, the socialist utopia where nobody is rich or poor and we are all the same.
P.S. keep in mind that even Marx himself couldn't keep to his theories, he whas known to be verry rich and addicted to foolishly spending money. |
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06/07/2004 11:16:06 PM · #25 |
Can you give me specific examples with specific groups and specific laws that you are referring to? Do you have specific monetary amounts that are spent by these groups and who they are paying this money to?
Originally posted by Russell2566:
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
These big companies that perpetrate these business policies and actions also pay out big money to politicians to push through laws that they want passed and in general corrupt the democratic process in the US. |
I'm curious, do you have an equal problem with the Extreme left special interests groups that get laws passed in the exact same manor? i.e. over bearing or stupid enviroment laws, gun laws, ineffective punishments or related laws, life style related issues...
It's pretty hypocritical of you to not take take equal issue with both isn't it, or is it OK, because you aggree with their adgenda? |
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